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> How Important Is The Guitar Brand?
Slavenko Erazer
post Apr 7 2013, 06:36 PM
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QUOTE (thefireball @ Apr 7 2013, 05:52 PM) *
It's a different spelling than the condiment mayo. biggrin.gif


You know what i've meant wink.gif
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klasaine
post Apr 7 2013, 06:50 PM
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I think the point of some the responses about the very real 'impact' of a particular word on the headstock is when one does go to re-sell an instrument.
It doesn't matter if it costs 3500 euros ... if it doesn't have a recognizable name on it, you won't get 1/4 of that in resale (unless you find the very specialized buyer) - full stop. If you're gonna spend serious dough on a guitar, and you're not super wealthy(?) - it's definitely worthy of consideration.
*Ibanez, Shecter, Suhr, Tyler, PRS, etc. - these absolutely do count as 'names' now (they have history, known quality and many famous endorsers). They may not rise in value like USA made Fender and Gibson but you won't lose money on them.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Apr 7 2013, 06:52 PM


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Maxisoft
post Apr 7 2013, 07:28 PM
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I recently got my hands on a Tokai Love rock.... On a par with a Les Paul in my humble opinion and an awesome tone...


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korblitz
post Apr 7 2013, 08:19 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Apr 7 2013, 06:50 PM) *
I think the point of some the responses about the very real 'impact' of a particular word on the headstock is when one does go to re-sell an instrument.
It doesn't matter if it costs 3500 euros ... if it doesn't have a recognizable name on it, you won't get 1/4 of that in resale (unless you find the very specialized buyer) - full stop. If you're gonna spend serious dough on a guitar, and you're not super wealthy(?) - it's definitely worthy of consideration.
*Ibanez, Shecter, Suhr, Tyler, PRS, etc. - these absolutely do count as 'names' now (they have history, known quality and many famous endorsers). They may not rise in value like USA made Fender and Gibson but you won't lose money on them.


I have to agree with you. The second hand or used guitar market is awesome to get stuff at half the cost. And there's always a big danger in buying used.

When I trade guitars I never get to do all the tests that I want to check if the guitar is ok. That's why I always dealt locally and if any problem arise, I can go and break the legs of the seller. UNfornately, that has never happen.
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Darius Wave
post Apr 9 2013, 03:43 PM
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Indeed that's very sad...especially some of those unnamed ones can do the job much better than many of those popular.


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klasaine
post Apr 9 2013, 04:47 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Apr 9 2013, 07:43 AM) *
Indeed that's very sad...especially some of those unnamed ones can do the job much better than many of those popular.


Yes, sad indeed but that's just the economics of 'things'.


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Slavenko Erazer
post Apr 10 2013, 11:03 AM
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I Buy only Jackson / Charvel, Kramer and Fender guitars made in the 80's. And can;t go wrong with those!! smile.gif
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Todd Simpson
post Apr 11 2013, 01:39 AM
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The "Brand" does help a TON when you go to sell or trade an instrument. If it's something you are buying just because you like it and you never plan on selling it, then it matters a lot less.
For me personally, Brand/Headstock is more about the characteristics of a given axe. From a given vendor, you know roughly what to expect. For example, I wouldn't go trying out every strat in a guitar shop since I know how strat necks generally feel, I'd start with the IBANEZ guitars first. But that's just me smile.gif

For "Boutique" Brands, reputation is everything. If a brand slips on quality they can virtually implode. For example.

HALO GUITARS
*started strong, started to slip on quality (IMHO) and started to sink.

STRICTLY 7 GUITARS
*Also started strong but the controversy over Keith Merrow leaving the company an endorsee because the frets simple popped out of his custom axe, has raised serious questions in the Djent world. I"ve asked to try one out from the owner so I can make a vid and give an honest assessment.

DAEMONESS
*Quality beyond reproach. As a matter of fact, the guy that makes them is so particular about them, that he won't sell you one if he doesn't think your "worthy". A bit snooty sure, but nobody ever said greatness was easy.



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Darius Wave
post Apr 12 2013, 12:34 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Apr 11 2013, 01:39 AM) *
The "Brand" does help a TON when you go to sell or trade an instrument. If it's something you are buying just because you like it and you never plan on selling it, then it matters a lot less.
For me personally, Brand/Headstock is more about the characteristics of a given axe. From a given vendor, you know roughly what to expect. For example, I wouldn't go trying out every strat in a guitar shop since I know how strat necks generally feel, I'd start with the IBANEZ guitars first. But that's just me smile.gif

For "Boutique" Brands, reputation is everything. If a brand slips on quality they can virtually implode. For example.

HALO GUITARS
*started strong, started to slip on quality (IMHO) and started to sink.

STRICTLY 7 GUITARS
*Also started strong but the controversy over Keith Merrow leaving the company an endorsee because the frets simple popped out of his custom axe, has raised serious questions in the Djent world. I"ve asked to try one out from the owner so I can make a vid and give an honest assessment.

DAEMONESS
*Quality beyond reproach. As a matter of fact, the guy that makes them is so particular about them, that he won't sell you one if he doesn't think your "worthy". A bit snooty sure, but nobody ever said greatness was easy.



About the last one...Maybe it sounds ridiculous but i think I get the point of this guy...Pople judge guitar very fast...I someone uploads poor playing vid or audio it will touch the tradmark anyway...So if You have only some good players as a users that creates good image of Your work ...even it seems to be unfair for people who just want You guitar smile.gif))


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Headbanger
post Apr 12 2013, 01:06 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Apr 12 2013, 01:34 PM) *
About the last one...Maybe it sounds ridiculous but i think I get the point of this guy...Pople judge guitar very fast...I someone uploads poor playing vid or audio it will touch the tradmark anyway...So if You have only some good players as a users that creates good image of Your work ...even it seems to be unfair for people who just want You guitar smile.gif))


I think he won't sell many guitars then...Theres a lot of bad players about and not so many 'good' ones. Maybe everyone has to start somewhere and if a starter player was refused permission to buy one of these guitars and then turns out to be the next amazing player...maybe he/she will not decide to endorse that make in the future. I hate snobbery.


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Darius Wave
post Apr 12 2013, 01:53 PM
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QUOTE (Headbanger @ Apr 12 2013, 01:06 PM) *
I think he won't sell many guitars then...Theres a lot of bad players about and not so many 'good' ones. Maybe everyone has to start somewhere and if a starter player was refused permission to buy one of these guitars and then turns out to be the next amazing player...maybe he/she will not decide to endorse that make in the future. I hate snobbery.



That's also a good point. Any kind of factory attitude has some good and bad results...


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klasaine
post Apr 12 2013, 03:57 PM
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QUOTE (Headbanger @ Apr 12 2013, 05:06 AM) *
I think he won't sell many guitars then...Theres a lot of bad players about and not so many 'good' ones. Maybe everyone has to start somewhere and if a starter player was refused permission to buy one of these guitars and then turns out to be the next amazing player...maybe he/she will not decide to endorse that make in the future. I hate snobbery.


He's not unique in that attitude at all. Especially in the specialized, boutique market of 'luxury' (considered non-essential) goods.
There are amp and pick up builders who do the same.
I had a famous pick up guy (who will remain nameless because I like him) refuse to wind me a pickup because he felt I wasn't matching it properly with the other two pkups already in the guitar - laugh.gif

One of the most famous/notorious amp builders of all time constantly turns down potential customers or makes the price so prohibitively high that they balk - or, they say "yes" and at that stupid price he just builds it for them.

You can say they're snobs or, you can say they are particular about what they feel would 'cheapen' their product and by extension their name. They are free to sell to whom they choose. A byproduct of capitalism is that the seller doesn't have to sell to you just as you don't have to buy from them.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Apr 12 2013, 05:15 PM


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lothomer
post Apr 14 2013, 05:39 PM
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QUOTE (Slavenko Erazer @ Apr 7 2013, 02:34 PM) *
I would never buy a guitar with a word Mayonaise written all over the Headstock.
Don't think that they're bad, just simply couldn't buy it at all!!



Mayonaise? I like it on french fries


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Headbanger
post Apr 14 2013, 08:19 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Apr 12 2013, 02:53 PM) *
That's also a good point. Any kind of factory attitude has some good and bad results...


Thats true Darius.


QUOTE (klasaine @ Apr 12 2013, 04:57 PM) *
He's not unique in that attitude at all. Especially in the specialized, boutique market of 'luxury' (considered non-essential) goods.
There are amp and pick up builders who do the same.
I had a famous pick up guy (who will remain nameless because I like him) refuse to wind me a pickup because he felt I wasn't matching it properly with the other two pkups already in the guitar - laugh.gif

One of the most famous/notorious amp builders of all time constantly turns down potential customers or makes the price so prohibitively high that they balk - or, they say "yes" and at that stupid price he just builds it for them.

You can say they're snobs or, you can say they are particular about what they feel would 'cheapen' their product and by extension their name. They are free to sell to whom they choose. A byproduct of capitalism is that the seller doesn't have to sell to you just as you don't have to buy from them.

I think you've made some good points Ken..I suppose these guys just stay small and sell to a few for a lot of money or good exposure..I'm in the group who wouldn't get sold one of those guitars...but I'm also in the group who is happy with My Epiphone instead of a Gibson.


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dcz702
post Apr 15 2013, 05:51 AM
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End of first week with a new fender select strat and it was worth it. So I'd say it matters. smile.gif
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Todd Simpson
post Apr 16 2013, 01:36 AM
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That's true smile.gif He's a very small vendor, a one man shop basically @ DAEMONESS so he doesn't make that many instruments each year and rarely sells them off the rack. Most are custom, "one off" axes. That cost quite a bit. When you are making something at that level and only making a few of them, you can charge whatever you like and be pretty picky about the clientele. I'll probably never own one just because of the expense. I'd like to have one sure smile.gif But I just hate putting that much money in to one piece. I like to try lots of gear, guitars, so I tend to spread it around. But that's just me smile.gif Some folks will save for years for their custom axe, wait several more years to actually get it, then be buried with it.


I read that Keith Merrow for example waited 4 years for his BERNIE RICO Jr. Custom Axe. Then I started hearing that Bernie has had some sort of mental melt down and that folks are worried they may never see their guitars.


Todd

QUOTE (klasaine @ Apr 12 2013, 10:57 AM) *
He's not unique in that attitude at all. Especially in the specialized, boutique market of 'luxury' (considered non-essential) goods.
There are amp and pick up builders who do the same.
I had a famous pick up guy (who will remain nameless because I like him) refuse to wind me a pickup because he felt I wasn't matching it properly with the other two pkups already in the guitar - laugh.gif

One of the most famous/notorious amp builders of all time constantly turns down potential customers or makes the price so prohibitively high that they balk - or, they say "yes" and at that stupid price he just builds it for them.

You can say they're snobs or, you can say they are particular about what they feel would 'cheapen' their product and by extension their name. They are free to sell to whom they choose. A byproduct of capitalism is that the seller doesn't have to sell to you just as you don't have to buy from them.



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SpaseMoonkey
post Apr 16 2013, 06:52 PM
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To me when I see words like Gibson I think of not so much the name but the heritage of the music. It makes me think of good ol southern rock with a nice thick sound. As an instrument I think of a heavy guitar with a oversized thick neck, which in retrospect that's very true. Fender I think of blues/country, but also single coil/twangy guitars. Yet again very true. Ibanez I see a stock guitar used for metal with necks that are paper thin. Jackson/Bc Rich/Schecter/Dean is the same as the Ibanez just a slightly thicker neck.

To me it gives a validation of what I may be buying and what sort of style it is mainly used for, tho anything can be used for everything, just some better than others. Plus if you follow me at all you will know it seems once a month I have a new guitar. laugh.gif Sadly this is almost true. Since I just got a 7 and now I'm currently staring down Guerilla guitars. It's not a normal house hold name but they make a 27" scale 6 string with what seems to be close to Ibanez specs for the neck as in thickness.


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Bogdan Radovic
post Apr 17 2013, 12:20 AM
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I like brands so it does play a role when I'm looking for an instrument. I also value looks a lot! smile.gif
Of course, for me the sound is the final factor that either makes or breaks the deal.

I'm pretty sure that we sometimes do "pay for the name on the headstock" but its not a general rule. Instruments are so much different from each other (even when its the exact same model/brand). It all comes down to pairing the ears and instrument for me.

Now this is a bit of different topic but kinda related : custom guitar vs famous brand
There are cons and pros here for both but I never actually had a desire to get a custom guitar. Maybe because I do not trust the local luthers available in my area, but it ultimately feels like a gamble to me.

I look at it like this : luther has certain experience, skill, art etc. The instrument he makes can be my dream guitar but also it can just sound "not that good". That would be a worst case scenario : what if my dream guitar just doesn't sound like one?! I custom made it, choose everything - I need get it and play, right? smile.gif

On the other hand we have famous brands like Fender and Gibson and they have been in the business of making guitars for such a long time. Then invented so many guitars. They have much more resources to invest into research, testing and everything. This gives me confidence that the product is from a design point of view pretty refined. Main advantage : I can just try out dozens of Fender guitars till I find the ONE that sounds and feels just right. I can play it before I buy it!

It might not have the exact exotic wood combination and crazy pickups but the sound and feel will be there.... smile.gif

p.s. I've also seen some really ridiculous guitars made by luthers here so my opinion might be influenced by "child trauma" from the past smile.gif

p.p.s. I'm not bashing on luthers in general or luthers locally here - there are many instruments out there that turned out amazing, look amazing and sound beautiful! smile.gif


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Todd Simpson
post Apr 17 2013, 01:25 AM
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Good points smile.gif The inability to actually try out a really expensive custom guitar is a big drawback IMHO. Until you play it, you won't really know if you like it. Even if you play one thats close, each custom is a hand built job so it might be a tad different at similar specs.

If considering a custom, it's really important to do ones homework and to try to get your hands one thats as close as possible to what you are thinking about buying. You can't really bop down to the local store and try a Daemoness or Strictly 7, etc. so it's a real challenge to get the info you need.

With known brands, like Ibanez, Fender, Jackson, etc. Towards the bottom of the price range, most are made in the same factory believe it or not, by the same people. It was all done in Korea for a while, now India does more. But since it's factory production, you can get pretty standardized results.

Once you get in to higher end axes, even from Fender, Jackson, Ibanez etc. Many are hand made and or from the "Custom Shop" owned by the vendor. At which point, you are back in Luthier land. It's true that some of the best luthiers around work for these shops. So the results are usually quite good. But with a smaller shop, maybe even a one man shop, how can you know until you try it out?

Something worth considering before any guitar purchase smile.gif

Todd

QUOTE (Bogdan Radovic @ Apr 16 2013, 06:20 PM) *
I like brands so it does play a role when I'm looking for an instrument. I also value looks a lot! smile.gif
Of course, for me the sound is the final factor that either makes or breaks the deal.

I'm pretty sure that we sometimes do "pay for the name on the headstock" but its not a general rule. Instruments are so much different from each other (even when its the exact same model/brand). It all comes down to pairing the ears and instrument for me.

Now this is a bit of different topic but kinda related : custom guitar vs famous brand
There are cons and pros here for both but I never actually had a desire to get a custom guitar. Maybe because I do not trust the local luthers available in my area, but it ultimately feels like a gamble to me.

I look at it like this : luther has certain experience, skill, art etc. The instrument he makes can be my dream guitar but also it can just sound "not that good". That would be a worst case scenario : what if my dream guitar just doesn't sound like one?! I custom made it, choose everything - I need get it and play, right? smile.gif

On the other hand we have famous brands like Fender and Gibson and they have been in the business of making guitars for such a long time. Then invented so many guitars. They have much more resources to invest into research, testing and everything. This gives me confidence that the product is from a design point of view pretty refined. Main advantage : I can just try out dozens of Fender guitars till I find the ONE that sounds and feels just right. I can play it before I buy it!

It might not have the exact exotic wood combination and crazy pickups but the sound and feel will be there.... smile.gif

p.s. I've also seen some really ridiculous guitars made by luthers here so my opinion might be influenced by "child trauma" from the past smile.gif

p.p.s. I'm not bashing on luthers in general or luthers locally here - there are many instruments out there that turned out amazing, look amazing and sound beautiful! smile.gif



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Headbanger
post Apr 17 2013, 10:33 PM
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I think that a summary of this thread from what I have understood is that nobody really relies on a guitar, either custom or brand named until they try it...so therefore making the brand name not that important...Because everyone seems aware that PRS, Fender, Gibson, Ibanez etc etc can make awesome guitars...but they can also make awful ones.....therefore rendering one brand name no better than another....or am I misunderstanding something....i.e. if you have Gibson or PRS on the headstock you will get a good resale value...even if its one of the 'Awful' ones???? I don't think so.... smile.gif


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