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> How Important Is The Guitar Brand?
klasaine
post Apr 17 2013, 11:48 PM
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QUOTE (Headbanger @ Apr 17 2013, 02:33 PM) *
PRS, Fender, Gibson, Ibanez etc etc can make awesome guitars...but they can also make awful ones.....therefore rendering one brand name no better than another....or am I misunderstanding something....i.e. if you have Gibson or PRS on the headstock you will get a good resale value...even if its one of the 'Awful' ones???? I don't think so.... smile.gif


If you have Gibson or Fender on the headstock, especially a 'made in the USA' version, you will never lose money no matter how much of a POS it is (as long as it's in decent condition and you have all the original parts and it hasn't been refinished).
There are literally thousands of miserable playing/sounding Strats, Teles, SGs, LPs, etc. from the 70s and 80s that sell for huge dough. Rarely less than double what they went for new. Usually triple.
Ibanez, if they're MIJ are creeping up. PRS so far 'holding' value.


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Headbanger
post Apr 17 2013, 11:54 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Apr 18 2013, 12:48 AM) *
If you have Gibson or Fender on the headstock, especially a 'made in the USA' version, you will never lose money no matter how much of a POS it is (as long as it's in decent condition and you have all the original parts and it hasn't been refinished).
There are literally thousands of miserable playing/sounding Strats, Teles, SGs, LPs, etc. from the 70s and 80s that sell for huge dough. Rarely less than double what they went for new. Usually triple.
Ibanez, if they're MIJ are creeping up. PRS so far 'holding' value.


Obviously there are more mugs in the world than I thought.


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klasaine
post Apr 18 2013, 01:14 AM
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Yes ... and no.
An american made Gibson or Fender will always increase in value (whether they're actually a good guitar or not is irrelevant at this point). And so far, history has not demonstrated otherwise.
You could/can always find deals on the odd ball models but then eventually some rock star or soon to be rock star plays it and it becomes 'desirable' ... and then the price goes up.
Jaguars, Starcasters, Jazzmasters and 'silver burst' Les Pauls are perfect examples.

*If you see an amazingly burning guitarist that you know is going to make it - and they play an Aria 'pro II' or Ibanez 'Talman' (or whatever) ... buy 3 of them ... now!

This post has been edited by klasaine: Apr 18 2013, 03:35 AM


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Headbanger
post Apr 18 2013, 08:47 AM
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This is a very open topic as the view point of a guitar brand must change depending on whether you have bought the guitar to play well or just as an investment or both.


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Slavenko Erazer
post Apr 18 2013, 09:13 AM
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QUOTE (lothomer @ Apr 14 2013, 06:39 PM) *
[attachment=31498:mayonaise.jpg]


Mayonaise? I like it on french fries



Yes, but no MAYO on guitarse , it's bad for fretwork !!! tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif



QUOTE (klasaine @ Apr 18 2013, 02:14 AM) *
Yes ... and no.
An american made Gibson or Fender will always increase in value (whether they're actually a good guitar or not is irrelevant at this point). And so far, history has not demonstrated otherwise.
You could/can always find deals on the odd ball models but then eventually some rock star or soon to be rock star plays it and it becomes 'desirable' ... and then the price goes up.
Jaguars, Starcasters, Jazzmasters and 'silver burst' Les Pauls are perfect examples.

*If you see an amazingly burning guitarist that you know is going to make it - and they play an Aria 'pro II' or Ibanez 'Talman' (or whatever) ... buy 3 of them ... now!



Yes, but fender and Gibson guitars are the ones that Cut-thru best in the mix... after all the 90 % of rock music is recorded with Gibson ,does that mean anything?

Yeah, some amazingly burning guitarist will have crappy sound on Aria , Mayo, and other guitar of that kind, i agree. cool.gif

This post has been edited by Slavenko Erazer: Apr 18 2013, 09:10 AM
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klasaine
post Apr 18 2013, 04:47 PM
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QUOTE (Headbanger @ Apr 18 2013, 12:47 AM) *
This is a very open topic as the view point of a guitar brand must change depending on whether you have *bought the guitar to play well or just as an investment or both.


Exactly!
I guess my point in the discussion is that's it's something to think about ... i.e.,
If you buy an expensive instrument (OK, that's relative depending on your personal situation) do you think that maybe someday you 'may' want (need?) to sell it? That's all a big 'IF' - ? You have to ultimately make the choice.

*Ever since the mid 70s american luthiers knew there was a need for higher quality instruments than those being offered at the time by the 'big 3' (fender, gibson, martin). Hence Charvel, Jackson, Alembic, Paul Reed Smith, Taylor, Santa Cruz, Bourgeois, Pensa Suhr, BC rich, Heritage, G&L, etc. Amps too - Boogie, Matchless, Jim Kelley, Dumble ...

For whatever ( un-warranted, illogical, comforting, reminiscent and even dumb) reasons those Big 3 companies still command the highest re-sale value, as well as the historically cultural cache that goes with that.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Apr 18 2013, 05:56 PM


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Todd Simpson
post Apr 27 2013, 12:34 AM
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Believe it or not. Even on an AWFUL instrument, the resale price is higher on awful ones with good names on the headstock than awful ones with crap names, just for the name. Many new players will buy just on the name or because their guitar hero plays a give brand/type of guitar.

More experiences players use the brands/names often as a reference point given that each vendor has certain characteristics across the range in many but not cases. For example many IBANEZ guitars lead toward a thin neck. So if looking for thin necks, I'd check the IBBY's first then move to the ESP, JACKSON, etc.

But yes, it all comes down to you in the end. IT doesn't matter what the brand, cost is if you don't like how it plays. So put that first. Then once you find a few that you like, all things being equal, the branded guitar may resale a bit better smile.gif

Todd




QUOTE (Headbanger @ Apr 17 2013, 05:33 PM) *
I think that a summary of this thread from what I have understood is that nobody really relies on a guitar, either custom or brand named until they try it...so therefore making the brand name not that important...Because everyone seems aware that PRS, Fender, Gibson, Ibanez etc etc can make awesome guitars...but they can also make awful ones.....therefore rendering one brand name no better than another....or am I misunderstanding something....i.e. if you have Gibson or PRS on the headstock you will get a good resale value...even if its one of the 'Awful' ones???? I don't think so.... smile.gif



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VikingBlues
post May 4 2013, 02:18 PM
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It's sort of sad that we have to factor in the resale factor when we buy a guitar. But I know that for me it's a reality that it is very likely that a guitarI buy will not be a keeper, whatever the badge. Not sure if it's going the same elsewhere in the world but resale values round where I live are even going down the toilet on the big name guitars - which makes the decision to buy a guitar at all even more difficult. To an extent I think the used prices are going down the pan because the constant new models being churned out by the big businesses mean that all the discontinued lines keep getting sold off in the stores at reduced sale prices.

It has to be said though that after five years + of buying and selling on a horribly regular basis that the three guitars I've had with a "big name" label attached have not survived the culls. Also one of the three that survived is effectively a custom job by way of being a partscaster. And all three have only survived due to upgrades to pickups ... and only one of those upgrades has been with "name" pickups. So in that sense I guess I'm in the camp of not being so drawn to buying the big brand name guitars.

The difficulties of judging a custom build were mentioned - that problem of not being able to try them out. The same problem often applies too with pickup upgrades especially if you don't go the big name route. But if my budget could ever stretch to it I'd be rather tempted to go for a custom build than a big name standard production job if the prices were similar.

But all this is too much of a lottery - I'm just thankful I have no pangs at all of GAS for guitars. After my last experience of buying one of the big brands I'm going to look with a very cynical eye at the overpriced products even if they do have a better resale value ... a massively disappointing experience, and I'd rather enjoy the guitars I play for however many years I have left.

If only I had no GAS for other gear! rolleyes.gif



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Todd Simpson
post May 7 2013, 01:43 AM
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The only way I've found to not lose HUGE money selling guitars is to use EBAY. Trying to sell to GUITAR CENTER will get you next to nothing. It's a given that a music store will offer about a quarter on the dollar or there abouts for a guitar. So $1000 guitar, used, they may sell for $500, so they give you $250. OF COURSE there are exceptions to everything and this isn't a hard fast rule. But as a guideline, it's something to keep in mind when buying an instrument. Buying a NEW Instrument, like buying a NEW car, usually means losing HALF the value when you drive off the lot, or leave the store.

The big exceptions to losing half, are in buying gear that appreciates in value. Sadly, that gear is enormously expensive. Most things bought of the rack are going only one way in price. Down.

So I always suggest buying used. At least you don't get killed on resale that way you do on NEW instruments, not as badly anyway. Also, why I use EBAY. At least you can get near market value out of used gear if you know what your doing and have built up a good rating on the site.

Todd


QUOTE (VikingBlues @ May 4 2013, 09:18 AM) *
It's sort of sad that we have to factor in the resale factor when we buy a guitar. But I know that for me it's a reality that it is ce, and I'd rather enjoy the guitars I play for however many years I have left.

If only I had no GAS for other gear! rolleyes.gif



Good point! I wrote something similar in my previous post. The downside of course is that instruments that appreciate have a VERY VERY high entry point as far as most young/starting players are concerned. When most students get in to guitar (from what I've seen as an instructor) the first time (they sometimes get in to again later in life), they are 14-17 years old and often have to wait for Birthday, Christmas for a guitar. Or have to save up money from a part time job. As a result, most get whatever they can afford/manage. In most cases, this is not an American Made instrument.

But for those earning a good income, with some money to spend, nice guitars can be an investment. If you develop a good eye, you seek out rare instruments/American made strats from the 60's etc. and make good money selling them. smile.gif


Todd



QUOTE (klasaine @ Apr 17 2013, 08:14 PM) *
Yes ... and no.
An american made Gibson or Fender will always increase in value (whether they're actually a good guitar or not is irrelevant at this point). And so far, history has not demonstrated otherwise.
You could/can always find deals on the odd ball models but then eventually some rock star or soon to be rock star plays it and it becomes 'desirable' ... and then the price goes up.
Jaguars, Starcasters, Jazzmasters and 'silver burst' Les Pauls are perfect examples.

*If you see an amazingly burning guitarist that you know is going to make it - and they play an Aria 'pro II' or Ibanez 'Talman' (or whatever) ... buy 3 of them ... now!



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klasaine
post May 7 2013, 06:58 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ May 6 2013, 05:43 PM) *
So I always suggest buying used.


instruments that appreciate have a VERY VERY high entry point as far as most young/starting players are concerned. When most students get in to guitar (from what I've seen as an instructor) the first time (they sometimes get in to again later in life), they are 14-17 years old and often have to wait for Birthday, Christmas for a guitar. Or have to save up money from a part time job. As a result, most get whatever they can afford/manage. In most cases, this is not an American Made instrument.

But for those earning a good income, with some money to spend, nice guitars can be an investment. If you develop a good eye, you seek out rare instruments/American made strats from the 60's etc. and make good money selling them. smile.gif


Todd


If you do have that bit of extra income I would still suggest buying used (unless you absolutely have to have or need a 'custom' instrument).
Lets say you're a discerning player and you love Les Pauls, you've always loved Les Pauls and your dream is to have a black LP custom with gold hardware, block inlays on the fingerboard, split diamond logo and the 3 play binding. Guess what? New, that's $3500.00 US. For that same dough, or probably less if you're willing to be patient, you can get an xlnt condition early 70's LP that 1) probably sounds better and 2) will be worth more than what just you paid for it in less than a year. Hell, you could probably find a re-fin'd 1968 gold top for $3500.
Conversely and sadly if you buy a Roger Sadowsky or Tom Anderson guitar for $3500 (two well established and well respected builders of fantastic, high end, custom guitars) it will never ever be worth that in re-sale ever again (don't believe me - check ebay 'sold' listings). One is lucky to get a little more than 1/2.

This post has been edited by klasaine: May 7 2013, 07:10 AM


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