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> Need A Tip About Breaking Benjamin Style
Viaxl
post Apr 29 2013, 01:48 PM
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This piece is pretty easy but sounds Fabulous so I want to dig into it to learn some music logic (I love to call it logic because it's science biggrin.gif) so in the very first part of arpeggio ,

Bb add9 (Bb D F C) without the Bb – 2nd voicing of Bbmaj add9
C major (C E G C) without the low C – 2nd voicing of C major
F sus 2 (F G C) using the root, 2nd and fifth


Why is it treated as Bb+9 without Bb? Since it's in D minor doesn't D7 suit better?
My ear tells me because of the 2nd voicing pattern, Bb feels better, and starting with a Bb is fine as the harmony is perfect.

The question sounds a little paranoid but I never had a teacher and I read&guess about all the theory biggrin.gif I'd be thrilled if you can expand the explanation, thx!
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Cosmin Lupu
post Apr 29 2013, 03:40 PM
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Hey mate - I thought it'd be easier to answer in a video smile.gif



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Viaxl
post Apr 29 2013, 05:22 PM
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Hey Cosmin,
I can't believe you made a video to explain. I made a coffee and had a mini blast, thank you for being so awesome!

Firstly yes I understand the concept of harmony, like the circle of fifths and D minor scale comes with the same notes as F major scale. So yea it makes a lot sense when I treat it as F major.

And may I ask, why is it in D minor then? I always think for D minor the 'normal' chords would be I,IV,V of the tonic which are Dm/Gm/Am. So did I misunderstand this? if so my life would be a lie..

I know it's complex to fully explain this, just drop me a bit of wisdom on the particular issue biggrin.gif I think it's time to hop on another book for more knowledge base.
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Cosmin Lupu
post Apr 30 2013, 08:16 AM
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QUOTE (Viaxl @ Apr 29 2013, 04:22 PM) *
Hey Cosmin,
I can't believe you made a video to explain. I made a coffee and had a mini blast, thank you for being so awesome!

Firstly yes I understand the concept of harmony, like the circle of fifths and D minor scale comes with the same notes as F major scale. So yea it makes a lot sense when I treat it as F major.

And may I ask, why is it in D minor then? I always think for D minor the 'normal' chords would be I,IV,V of the tonic which are Dm/Gm/Am. So did I misunderstand this? if so my life would be a lie..

I know it's complex to fully explain this, just drop me a bit of wisdom on the particular issue biggrin.gif I think it's time to hop on another book for more knowledge base.


Hey mate, you are correct, but here's how it goes:

F major = F G A Bb C D E F
D minor = D E F G A Bb C D

I, IV, V in F major = F, Bb, C
i,iv,v in D minor = Dm, Gm, Am

If you harmonize the F major scale - that means create a chord out of each step of the scale using only notes belonging to that scale - you will get the following chords:

F major G minor A minor Bb major C major D minor E diminished F major

that's where we deduce that the I, IV, V in F major are the F major, Bb major and C major chords right?

Now, if we start looking at the D minor scale, we will clearly deduce that i,iv,v are Dminor, G minor and A minor. The chords in F major are the same with the ones in the D minor scale, the only difference is the order in which you look at them. This leads to a re-organization of the scale steps. (i.e. the F note, which is I in the F major scale, becomes iii in the D minor scale and so on)

Hope I was clear and not ranting biggrin.gif


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Darius Wave
post Apr 30 2013, 08:32 AM
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Like Cosmin said - songs not always start from the root chord. Some of 3-chord combinations can be assigned to the different keys. If the harmony material is not clear enough to name the key, it's always good to analyze any notes of extra melodies played in the song and the bass line of course. Also...that would be to simple to always have chordprogression with no additional, out of key chords. Good way to confirm is to write down all the notes that belong to every chord , bass, solo etc and try to find which key most of them fit. Than we can tell wich chord has a note out of scale.




This post has been edited by Darius Wave: Apr 30 2013, 08:41 AM


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Viaxl
post Apr 30 2013, 09:41 AM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Apr 30 2013, 07:16 AM) *
Hey mate, you are correct, but here's how it goes:

F major = F G A Bb C D E F
D minor = D E F G A Bb C D

I, IV, V in F major = F, Bb, C
i,iv,v in D minor = Dm, Gm, Am

If you harmonize the F major scale - that means create a chord out of each step of the scale using only notes belonging to that scale - you will get the following chords:

F major G minor A minor Bb major C major D minor E diminished F major

that's where we deduce that the I, IV, V in F major are the F major, Bb major and C major chords right?

Now, if we start looking at the D minor scale, we will clearly deduce that i,iv,v are Dminor, G minor and A minor. The chords in F major are the same with the ones in the D minor scale, the only difference is the order in which you look at them. This leads to a re-organization of the scale steps. (i.e. the F note, which is I in the F major scale, becomes iii in the D minor scale and so on)

Hope I was clear and not ranting biggrin.gif


QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Apr 30 2013, 07:32 AM) *
Like Cosmin said - songs not always start from the root chord. Some of 3-chord combinations can be assigned to the different keys. If the harmony material is not clear enough to name the key, it's always good to analyze any notes of extra melodies played in the song and the bass line of course. Also...that would be to simple to always have chordprogression with no additional, out of key chords. Good way to confirm is to write down all the notes that belong to every chord , bass, solo etc and try to find which key most of them fit. Than we can tell wich chord has a note out of scale.


Yes I just didn't know why it wasn't Dm, but I did dig into it and found the background chord is Bb so that makes perfect sense. Now listen to the whole song again, yes Bb it is! So it comes to me that it's not about what chord looks good but which one fits better, and, what was designed by the composer as the song is a whole piece.
Thank you guys for helping me figure it out! I'm happy now:D
Not ranting at all Cosmin, if you write a book I'll read it twice.

This post has been edited by Viaxl: Apr 30 2013, 09:43 AM
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Cosmin Lupu
post May 1 2013, 01:20 PM
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Thank you very much man! This has been genuinely one of the nicest things anyone has said to me EVER! biggrin.gif Thank you again and let me know if and how I can help you further along your way, ok?


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