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> Overpriced Ibby
Todd Simpson
post May 22 2013, 12:45 AM
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I"m always on the lookout for an old RG series (5xx) made in japan. So I'm on ebay a lot just checking around for a steal. Lately, I don't know what has gone awry, the prices have gone CRAZY. These guitars were MID RANGE when brand new. Never were they "High end" guitars. Good, but not High End. So they were semi cheap then and up to now.

Then bam. I start seeing Japan built RGs going for 5, 6, 700 dollar U.S. Here is one starting $699 Which is more than you'd pay new back when it was built.

If you are in the market for one of these (I'm always banging on about how great they are) don't over pay. If you can find one for 3 or 300 bux. Get it. If not, it's not a great deal. These are OLD guitars with necks that often warp since they are wafer thin. If you buy one over the web, it's probably being sold because the neck is warped, frets are dead, etc. So make sure you can return it if needed. IF it's a (NO RETURN) auction, skip it.

Here is a pic of the one that gave me sticker shock. $699 for this guitar is CRAZY. I LOVE this series but, I also like paying non crazy prices. smile.gif

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klasaine
post May 22 2013, 01:10 AM
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But they're MIJ - 'made in japan'. That has cache now because of all the stuff coming from the other Asian countries.
MIJ or CIJ (crafted) Fenders are going sometimes for over $1000.00.
As we all were mentioning in another thread - quality, or the lack of it - has absolutely nothing to do with the price. It's about scarcity or the perception of scarcity.


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Todd Simpson
post May 22 2013, 02:43 AM
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You hit the nail on the head there to be sure!!!!! the "Made In Japan" tag today seems like "Made in the USA" on guitars not so long ago and still today for many vendors. The quality of instruments made in India and Korea doesn't always compare well to guitars made in Japan. I have to say, there is truth in this. I've played both and the Japan instruments are just a bit better put together, play a bit better, have a bit better finish/build etc.

These things seem to go in cycles. a few years back, the music shops couldn't GIVE away an IBANEZ much less a 7 string. All the Fender Jaguars/Strats/Prs/Les Paul guitars were selling like hotcakes. I got my MIJ IBBY 7620 for $300 during this time. It was the ONLY 7 string in the store.

It looks like I'll be putting my Ibanez collection on hold for a bit. smile.gif

Todd


QUOTE (klasaine @ May 21 2013, 08:10 PM) *
But they're MIJ - 'made in japan'. That has cache now because of all the stuff coming from the other Asian countries.
MIJ or CIJ (crafted) Fenders are going sometimes for over $1000.00.
As we all were mentioning in another thread - quality, or the lack of it - has absolutely nothing to do with the price. It's about scarcity or the perception of scarcity.



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klasaine
post May 22 2013, 04:40 AM
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Mid 80s MIJ Stratocasters are now considered some of the finest Fenders made in the last 40 years. They cared about making them right so that they could keep that manufacturing gig.

*I have a 1979 Ibanez 'artist' ...

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Up until very recently I could not give this guitar away.
Now it's worth about 10 Xs what I paid for it.

This post has been edited by klasaine: May 22 2013, 04:41 AM


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Cosmin Lupu
post May 22 2013, 12:10 PM
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The PRS SEs are Korean made and they are good guitars. Of course, they are not the USA ones wink.gif but still I regard the SE line as one of the best choices regarding the price/quality ratio.


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Amp360
post May 22 2013, 04:10 PM
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When I was in middle/high school that was the guitar to own. I was never that into metal/shred so I never owned one but they were nice guitars. I think they were about $600 new, which was a little more then a USA Strat and a little less then a Strat Plus.

I remember thinking the paint on them was gorgeous. Nice guitar, but not something I would pay a premium for. My guess is that the increase is less about MIJ and more about a bunch of people in their mid 30s/early 40s wanting the guitar of their youth.

I would think there are a ton of these out there because I can think of a lot of people who got these then stopped playing when metal went out or stuck them in a closet and bought something more retro.


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Todd Simpson
post May 24 2013, 01:41 AM
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It's interesting isn't it? This switch that's taken place. Now it seems the MIJ models are really getting popular (as you mentioned due to quality, but partly perception) and the prices are going NUTS. I hope it's a phase/cycle. smile.gif As I like buying old MIJ gear on the cheap and that's just not happening anymore.


Todd


QUOTE (klasaine @ May 21 2013, 11:40 PM) *
Mid 80s MIJ Stratocasters are now considered some of the finest Fenders made in the last 40 years. They cared about making them right so that they could keep that manufacturing gig.

*I have a 1979 Ibanez 'artist' ...

Attached Image

Up until very recently I could not give this guitar away.
Now it's worth about 10 Xs what I paid for it.



Probably at least part of it is the "nostalgia buyer". The quality difference is quite stark though and even goes across brands to Fender as another poster mentioned. The prices started to spike about a year ago it seems and have gone up since. I hope it doesn't keep that way. There are tons on Ebay but any MIJ in decent shape seems to priced as if it was a custom build with age on it.

Todd

QUOTE (Amp360 @ May 22 2013, 11:10 AM) *
When I was in middle/high school that was the guitar to own. I was never that into metal/shred so I never owned one but they were nice guitars. I think they were about $600 new, which was a little more then a USA Strat and a little less then a Strat Plus.

I remember thinking the paint on them was gorgeous. Nice guitar, but not something I would pay a premium for. My guess is that the increase is less about MIJ and more about a bunch of people in their mid 30s/early 40s wanting the guitar of their youth.

I would think there are a ton of these out there because I can think of a lot of people who got these then stopped playing when metal went out or stuck them in a closet and bought something more retro.



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klasaine
post May 24 2013, 03:59 PM
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There may be some nostalgia involved too but it doesn't really matter. The group that's 'nostalgic' about Ibanez (or Aria or Yamaha or Fender/Squier Japan, etc.) is now viewing the next generation of Chinese, Indonesian, etc. guitars as inferior (warranted or not). That's how it goes. Prices for MIJ stuff may level off but I wouldn't bet on it coming down (unless there's another huge crisis).


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Davenport
post May 26 2013, 08:09 PM
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Here are the few that I have....$$$
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This post has been edited by Davenport: May 26 2013, 11:24 PM
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Todd Simpson
post May 27 2013, 02:43 AM
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Those are some darn nice Ibbys!!!!!! Which models are those? All stock? What year?

Todd

QUOTE (Davenport @ May 26 2013, 03:09 PM) *
Here are the few that I have....$$$
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Cosmin Lupu
post May 27 2013, 06:55 AM
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I've seen the puzzle pattern one before biggrin.gif Can't remember where, but I've seen it!


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Davenport
post May 27 2013, 01:25 PM
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Puzzle is RG2006 year 2006 limited edition fairly hard to find here in the US so im told.
When I got it one of the guys at the store said it was sent to them by mistake.... was he just trying to make a sale who knows.
all stock but has had a fret job done by a pro with dunlop 6000 wire.

The other is a Mohogany body neck through RGT3020FM DS 2004 all stock hardware and pickups a refret has been done by a pro with dunlop 6000 wire the back of the neck has been altered clear coat removed and tung oiled also done by a pro.

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Mertay
post May 28 2013, 12:31 AM
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Nice post smile.gif

If I remember right, pre-97 ibby's had a slightly different radious (less flat) and the necks were thinner. They were rediculously thin and braking of headstock was very common.

Got my first ibanez in 94 and though I don't have them anymore, I'm pretty much sure that the build quality is better compared to similar priced guitars today. Specificly the selection of wood were better. Also the paint on them are banned now as they were very toxic.

I've been using an 97 made RG that was bought new in 98 and still haven't re-fretted or had any issue's with it (and currently I'm a guitar teacher so it gets played 2-3 hours a day minimum).

not 100% sure about it but around 97-98 or earlyer a shortage of wood happened globally, that changed a lot of things...

Anyway, I realize the younger generation also noticed these nowadays so there might be a market hype. But in the end its just market hype...I'm sure it will normalize soon as İbanez commonly adds new tech to their guitars to kill its used market biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Mertay: May 28 2013, 12:39 AM


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Todd Simpson
post May 28 2013, 07:27 AM
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Yup!!!! You know your Ibby History smile.gif The WIZARD 1 series necks are still highly sought after to this day due to their thin profile and playability. I'm very thankful to have one guitar (my ancient RG560) with a WIZARD 1. Remains the fastest playing neck I've found to date.

ALTHOUGH: As you mentioned, Ibanez STOPPED making them as they would SNAP UNDER HEAVY GAUGE STRINGS/DIVE BOMBING. With zero warning. Your playing a gig and CRACK!!!! It's so common that often when one is being sold on ebay, they will take close up shots of the back of the neck to prove it's not cracked. Like this one.

Attached Image

Ibanez started adding a "Skunk Stripe" piece of hard bubinga wood to the neck to make it more stable in later versions. This version (the AANJ neck) felt a tad thicker at the neck But actually, it wasn't thicker. The neck joint just let you go farther up. This is a pic of the AANJ neck joint.

Attached Image

IBANEZ abandoned the WIZARD 1 and switched to the WIZARD II which is still pretty thin, and more stable, but it's just not quite as thin the original in order to add more wood/more stability. They went from 17mm to 19mm at the first fret. So still quite playable smile.gif

The 17mm Wizard 1 neck is the same size as the JCUSTOM SHOP custom (Super Wizard) necks. Thats partially why folks seek them out. To get a neck that thin, your only options are buy used, semi ancient MIJ Ibby with a Wizard 1, or splurge for a Jcustom off the rack or have one built custom.

I must say I've been hoping Ibby would start offering the bubinga wizard 1 again. It seems they are saving that neck profile for their most expensive instruments. The good news is, the WIZARD II on the new 25th anniversary reissue guitars, feel very nice and very similar to the Wizard 1. They are 18mm at the nut instead of 17mm. Still pretty darn slim. I"m hoping to get one!!

They are very similar to the RG565 which I've wanted for years. Here is a pic of both.
Attached Image

QUICK TIP: If you ever end up finding a Wizard 1 necked Ibby, USE LIGHT STRINGS!! smile.gif I use .9 sets only, and don't use heavies on the low strings. Any neck that thin is going to be twitchy. But for fans of those guitars, it's worth the trouble.



QUOTE (Mertay @ May 27 2013, 07:31 PM) *
Nice post smile.gif

If I remember right, pre-97 ibby's had a slightly different radious (less flat) and the necks were thinner. They were rediculously thin and braking of headstock was very common.

Got my first ibanez in 94 and though I don't have them anymore, I'm pretty much sure that the build quality is better compared to similar priced guitars today. Specificly the selection of wood were better. Also the paint on them are banned now as they were very toxic.

I've been using an 97 made RG that was bought new in 98 and still haven't re-fretted or had any issue's with it (and currently I'm a guitar teacher so it gets played 2-3 hours a day minimum).

not 100% sure about it but around 97-98 or earlyer a shortage of wood happened globally, that changed a lot of things...

Anyway, I realize the younger generation also noticed these nowadays so there might be a market hype. But in the end its just market hype...I'm sure it will normalize soon as İbanez commonly adds new tech to their guitars to kill its used market biggrin.gif


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: May 28 2013, 07:28 AM


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ConnorGilks
post May 28 2013, 07:55 AM
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I have to admit though, the whole MIJ when it comes to Ibanez guitars has always been true in my experience. I'm getting myself another MIJ RG later this week, on old '99 RG7421. smile.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post May 28 2013, 09:39 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ May 28 2013, 06:27 AM) *
Yup!!!! You know your Ibby History smile.gif The WIZARD 1 series necks are still highly sought after to this day due to their thin profile and playability. I'm very thankful to have one guitar (my ancient RG560) with a WIZARD 1. Remains the fastest playing neck I've found to date.

ALTHOUGH: As you mentioned, Ibanez STOPPED making them as they would SNAP UNDER HEAVY GAUGE STRINGS/DIVE BOMBING. With zero warning. Your playing a gig and CRACK!!!! It's so common that often when one is being sold on ebay, they will take close up shots of the back of the neck to prove it's not cracked. Like this one.

Attached Image

Ibanez started adding a "Skunk Stripe" piece of hard bubinga wood to the neck to make it more stable in later versions. This version (the AANJ neck) felt a tad thicker at the neck But actually, it wasn't thicker. The neck joint just let you go farther up. This is a pic of the AANJ neck joint.

Attached Image

IBANEZ abandoned the WIZARD 1 and switched to the WIZARD II which is still pretty thin, and more stable, but it's just not quite as thin the original in order to add more wood/more stability. They went from 17mm to 19mm at the first fret. So still quite playable smile.gif

The 17mm Wizard 1 neck is the same size as the JCUSTOM SHOP custom (Super Wizard) necks. Thats partially why folks seek them out. To get a neck that thin, your only options are buy used, semi ancient MIJ Ibby with a Wizard 1, or splurge for a Jcustom off the rack or have one built custom.

I must say I've been hoping Ibby would start offering the bubinga wizard 1 again. It seems they are saving that neck profile for their most expensive instruments. The good news is, the WIZARD II on the new 25th anniversary reissue guitars, feel very nice and very similar to the Wizard 1. They are 18mm at the nut instead of 17mm. Still pretty darn slim. I"m hoping to get one!!

They are very similar to the RG565 which I've wanted for years. Here is a pic of both.
Attached Image

QUICK TIP: If you ever end up finding a Wizard 1 necked Ibby, USE LIGHT STRINGS!! smile.gif I use .9 sets only, and don't use heavies on the low strings. Any neck that thin is going to be twitchy. But for fans of those guitars, it's worth the trouble.


I know what you are talking about man - here's how the neck of my JEM looks like smile.gif



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Attached Image
 


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Mertay
post May 28 2013, 10:02 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ May 28 2013, 06:27 AM) *
Yup!!!! You know your Ibby History smile.gif


Heheh thanks I guess getting old has some benefits biggrin.gif

We got the red RG3XXV for my cousin few months ago and its a very good guitar for the price. I highly recommend it to friends but to be honest it didn't bring flashback memories from the past when I played it. Though this might be cause a lot of things like it wasn't professionally setuped so wasn't feeling very japanese either smile.gif

I don't know the thickness of my first year production rg3120 but though its really slim, the neck has noticable extra "shoulders". I really don't notice it when practicing or playing when sitting like a classical guitar player (prefer the position due to back issues) but when not in ideal position I can really feel the thickness. Makes it a great study guitar but sometimes I want more comfort smile.gif thinking of customizing the neck a little but can't dare to yet.

I like that extra wood behind the neck/under nut though, obviusly its there to prevent the crack but when playing chords up there it has an elegant feel...at least to me smile.gif

This post has been edited by Mertay: May 28 2013, 10:56 AM


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Todd Simpson
post May 28 2013, 10:37 PM
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BINGO!!!! That is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. The necks are just so thin that they need to pampered a bit, and fed only with light gauge strings and such. There is a price to be paid for building a neck that thin. It's like a really temperamental sports car in some respects. The performance is amazing, but the maintenance is heavy.


Todd

QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ May 28 2013, 04:39 AM) *
I know what you are talking about man - here's how the neck of my JEM looks like smile.gif



Might I say that is a fine instrument. The neck profile feels amazing especially for a 7 string. It's pretty much the prestige without the trem. I've played both and it's scary close in feel and sound and much easier on the pocket book.



Todd

QUOTE (ConnorGilks @ May 28 2013, 02:55 AM) *
I have to admit though, the whole MIJ when it comes to Ibanez guitars has always been true in my experience. I'm getting myself another MIJ RG later this week, on old '99 RG7421. smile.gif



For the price the RG3xxv is hard to beat. Part of why I want one smile.gif It's an "off the shelf" high quantity production model so it's going to have to go straight to a luthier if I get one to finish the frets, intonation, balance trem etc.

They clean up really spiff though smile.gif I'm looking for a used one and have been for a while. Maybe soon smile.gif

BTW That RG3120 is almost an heirloom. Those were just incredible MIJ ibby guitars and were beautiful to boot with flamed maple tops. They regularly fetch $1000 U.S. on ebay. Post some pics!!!!

Todd


QUOTE (Mertay @ May 28 2013, 05:02 AM) *
Heheh thanks I guess getting old has some benefits biggrin.gif

We got the red RG3XXV for my cousin few months ago and its a very good guitar for the price. I highly recommend it to friends but to be honest it didn't bring flashback memories from the past when I played it. Though this might be cause a lot of things like it wasn't professionally setuped so wasn't feeling very japanese either smile.gif

I don't know the thickness of my first year production rg3120 but though its really slim, the neck has noticable extra "shoulders". I really don't notice it when practicing or playing when sitting like a classical guitar player (prefer the position due to back issues) but when not in ideal position I can really feel the thickness. Makes it a great study guitar but sometimes I want more comfort smile.gif thinking of customizing the neck a little but can't dare to yet.

I like that extra wood behind the neck/under nut though, obviusly its there to prevent the crack but when playing chords up there it has an elegant feel...at least to me smile.gif


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: May 28 2013, 10:40 PM


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Mertay
post May 28 2013, 10:49 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ May 28 2013, 09:37 PM) *
They clean up really spiff though smile.gif I'm looking for a used one and have been for a while. Maybe soon smile.gif

BTW That RG3120 is almost an heirloom. Those were just incredible MIJ ibby guitars and were beautiful to boot with flamed maple tops. They regularly fetch $1000 U.S. on ebay. Post some pics!!!!

Todd


Cool but for info incase anyone else gets interested after reading this; previous year they released a pretty similar model called rg465 and mainly its tremolo system is cheaper and I've read complaints about it. We actually waited a bit for the 3xxv to arrive where we lived but it was worth it. The trem. on it isn't the most expensive one but still feels nice and seems it will last for a long time.

Here's a 3120 photo I took a month ago smile.gif



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ConnorGilks
post May 29 2013, 02:29 AM
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Thanks Todd, that makes me feel much better about this purchase! Can't wait to get it now. biggrin.gif


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