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> Bending With Eb Tuning
Headbanger
post May 27 2013, 06:26 PM
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I decided To tune my Fender Strat down half a step as I seem to be playing a lot of Eb songs lately..I'll leave my other guitar, my Les Paul in normal Standard and use whichever guitar is appropriate for each song.
I have tuned down before on a number of occasions and I know that this makes bending the strings that much easier. But I was wondering today if I am bending any more distance to reach the required tones. I don't think I am. If I am its so little that I can't seem to notice although my head tells me something is different because of the easier to bend less tension on the strings. What is the theory behind this, any one know?



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Gabriel Leopardi
post May 27 2013, 06:36 PM
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I feel something similar when I go from 010 to 011 strings. You need a moment to re-calibrate your fingers and the strength that you have to do but then you can bend adjusted again. I think that the difference is just the less strength that you have to do when you use Eb.

What are you playing?? Some Slash stuff? or maybe Hendrix? Malmsteen?


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Headbanger
post May 27 2013, 06:44 PM
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Various things...Mainly Hendrix and ACDC which I normally just play in standard E...But I keep coming across other bits and pieces and again I just don't bother tuning down and I thought maybe I should, to get the sound that was intended by the original artists and leave at least one of my two electrics different....(At least for a while: until I change my mind! laugh.gif )

This post has been edited by Headbanger: May 27 2013, 06:44 PM


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Gabriel Leopardi
post May 27 2013, 09:03 PM
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QUOTE (Headbanger @ May 27 2013, 02:44 PM) *
Various things...Mainly Hendrix and ACDC which I normally just play in standard E...But I keep coming across other bits and pieces and again I just don't bother tuning down and I thought maybe I should, to get the sound that was intended by the original artists and leave at least one of my two electrics different....(At least for a while: until I change my mind! laugh.gif )


haha Cool stuff mate! Any video coming?? or maybe some demonstration at the Vchat?


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Headbanger
post May 27 2013, 10:34 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ May 27 2013, 10:03 PM) *
haha Cool stuff mate! Any video coming?? or maybe some demonstration at the Vchat?


One day Gab!.... .One day would be nice. I can't believe what I am doing. I am repeating something I started about 23 years ago (The first time)...Hopefully I am better now than then....Now I have the help from the internet and GMC. Its amazing how much easier things are than back then. I don't suppose I'll demonstrate anything on vchat for a long time as my brain and fingers seem to freeze on there once I know someone is watching live...I may do a Video rec though in the future as that's less pressure smile.gif...Funnily enough I played a few gigs a long time ago on the bass and as I was a band member and not alone...the pressure was a shared thing and didn't bother me as much as Vchat! laugh.gif


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Headbanger
post May 28 2013, 08:55 AM
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Did any one actually know the theory behind the bending distance of strings under different tensions? i.e. standard E Tuning then down to Eb tuning...?


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Cosmin Lupu
post May 28 2013, 09:18 AM
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I totally understand your experience man smile.gif

I have my guitars tuned as follows:

JEM - standard E (09 - 046)
PRS Paul Allender - Standard D or Drop C (10-52)
PRS Mike Mushok - Standard B or Drop A (12-68) but since it is a baritone, the strings don't feel tensioned at all.

For me, it was a matter of experimenting with finding the perfect balance between the rigidity needed for riffing and the flexibility needed for bending and articulating in general. I found that 10-52 in standard D is the combination that fits my needs in a proportion of 95% - which is a winner wink.gif

I cam to this conclusion while trying to play the same piece with all three guitars, by altering the pitch of the backing track and seeing what feels more comfy. Of course, the baritone is not that comfy because the neck is huge, in comparison to the others, but the other PRS with the 10-52s proved itself to be the thing smile.gif I tried it on Pantera's 'I'm broken' because it has everything in it - riffs, bends, vibrato, picking and so on.

Pick a song you know how to play and experiment with string gauges and tunings until you figure out what fits you smile.gif Of course, let us know how it went, man! biggrin.gif


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Headbanger
post May 28 2013, 09:45 AM
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Thanks Cosmin and Gab...both interesting replies...but not really what I was asking....

My original question was more of a physical distance one rather than a feeling...The question arrived because of the feeling/feedback or less tension that I was experiencing in tuning all strings down Half a step.

I was asking does anybody know the 'theory' about the distance a string has to be bent (for example: to hit a tone two frets up from the one being bent) from one tuning to another... Its not important...its just one of those silly 'Physics' problems that makes me curious. wacko.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post May 28 2013, 09:58 AM
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Even if you don't want it to be, it is a feeling problem smile.gif You adjust your body to the tuning and tension - articulation is not a thing that you think about, but a thing that you learn how to feel.


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Headbanger
post May 28 2013, 10:02 AM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ May 28 2013, 10:58 AM) *
Even if you don't want it to be, it is a feeling problem smile.gif You adjust your body to the tuning and tension - articulation is not a thing that you think about, but a thing that you learn how to feel.


Haha...It wasn't a problem that I had Cosmin...It was just a physics question!!!. I haven't actually got a problem playing with either tuning .


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Cosmin Lupu
post May 28 2013, 10:12 AM
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laugh.gif sorry man, just thought you needed some answers tongue.gif


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Headbanger
post May 28 2013, 10:14 AM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ May 28 2013, 11:12 AM) *
laugh.gif sorry man, just thought you needed some answers tongue.gif


Don't apologise Man...your answers are always interesting and more than helpful...its just that I was asking something else tongue.gif . Maybe I haven't explained myself very well! laugh.gif


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Darius Wave
post May 28 2013, 11:45 AM
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Ha ha! The problem You consider is something natural! smile.gif I don't know any hard rules on that. Indeed fingers have some "tension memory" but still the main meter for the bend is the ear. I hate when strings a re too loosen - feel like bending the 3rd insteard of the usuall whole step or something... biggrin.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post May 28 2013, 02:32 PM
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QUOTE (Headbanger @ May 28 2013, 06:14 AM) *
Don't apologise Man...your answers are always interesting and more than helpful...its just that I was asking something else tongue.gif . Maybe I haven't explained myself very well! laugh.gif



hehe yeah, you explained yourself well mate! however I don't know and never asked myself the physics behind this, maybe and engineer or a luthier knows about it..


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Cosmin Lupu
post May 29 2013, 07:56 AM
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If you want a really interesting answer to this question - you should definitely ask a genuine bluesman biggrin.gif He will probably talk like Yoda about the topic tongue.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post May 30 2013, 04:22 PM
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I was wondering if anybody knew the answer to the original question of this thread but there is still a mystery...


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Headbanger
post Jun 3 2013, 09:54 AM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ May 30 2013, 05:22 PM) *
I was wondering if anybody knew the answer to the original question of this thread but there is still a mystery...


No one knows the answer to that original question Gab! laugh.gif


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dark dude
post Jun 3 2013, 04:59 PM
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I think it comes down to two factors:

1) Muscle memory
2) Your ear

If you blocked your ears and changed string tension (either by changing your tuning or changing string gauge), I doubt your fingers could compensate accurately, as they've been trained to add x pressure to bend to a particular pitch, y - this is your muscle memory.

Now, if you unblock your ears and bend with a new string tension, your fingers will feel a different tension but your ear will fine-tune your bend. The greater the difference between two string tensions, the less likely you are to hit the given pitch without using your ear to compensate. In HB's initial example, the difference in string tension was small, so HB was more or less able to hit the note.

I don't believe it's anything more than that.


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Headbanger
post Jun 3 2013, 07:45 PM
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Still not answered. Never mind just let this one disappear unanswered laugh.gif

The actual misunderstood question is..I'll try and be more clear;

When changing the tuning from normal standard tuning to Eb tuning do the strings have to be bent more to reach the equivalent required pitch?

edit:
I don't have a problem bending personally with either of the tunings to the correct pitches (I think biggrin.gif ) with either muscle memory or ear...so with all respect to those trying to be helpful in those camps...that's not a problem.. I wondered (like you do in life) was there something actually written, a known fact..that explains physically whether a differently tuned string would have to be moved further/less...or should be moved further/less that a standard tuning....I imagine if it does, the distance difference is probably not worth talking about, and as we use our ears and muscle memory, then maybe...that's also not worth talking about....?


This post has been edited by Headbanger: Jun 3 2013, 08:07 PM


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thefireball
post Jun 3 2013, 09:06 PM
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Here is what you are asking: no you don't actually bend any farther. The string is being bent the same distance whether you are in standard e or standard eb. It's the same distance no matter what.


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