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> Music For The Sake Of Music And Aimed At Musicians, Or Common Folk?
deeaa
post Jun 13 2013, 06:55 PM
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Just pondering. When you guys make music and songs, for whom is it?
I think for me, it's pretty much me myself first. I have recorded songs and releases I didn't even have the energy or drive to promote or publish any almost after done, despite liking them well myself.

Because...who do you make music for?

When I think of my work...I bet 99% of the people who hear it are fellow musicians, people like you, forum members, collaboration musicians, and a handful of friends.

I doubt much anybody else ever hears my music. There are occasionally some people like an old friend or somebody who might hear a song I post on facebook or whatever, but by and large, they are all people just like me. Mostly presenting to other people who on turn want to present their own songs.

I suppose some have family members etc. Who might listen. My family isn't interested in the least, hell my wife downright gets angry if I even mention my music, she's more like Listen I don't bother you with my gardening hobby much, just keep your hobbies to yourself thank you. Same with most people I know, I can't ever remember any colleague or family member or even a friend ever having been interested in hearing any. I mean, they ask what I've been up to and say cool, but never ask to check it out. I got guitars around the house and whatnot, and everybody knows I sing...hell people have asked me to perform for their weddings etc. But never ever ask me to play anything I've done. Maybe occasionally some students ask me to play a song I've done at best.

So...I wonder how common is that. Is making music kind of like a dark thing you do that everybody kind of turns a blind, erm, ear to, although they seem appreciative enough of it in general terms. I don't even think my parents ever asked me to play my music to them.

What's your view?


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klasaine
post Jun 14 2013, 02:24 AM
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I play and record a lot of stuff that probably only musos are into. But I also do a ton of pop music that occasionally some of my jazz friends will, lets say, 'express surprise that I would do that' - they don't dare question my judgement ... at least to my face.
I like a lot of different music. I feel I need to satisfy myself first - whatever the genre or level of difficulty or ease. I actually hate referring to music as even having a 'level of difficulty or ease' for a listener. Any listener.
A lot of 'musicians' dismiss seemingly simple music and a lot of non-players assume that if it's fast or maybe a little weird or it's called jazz or prog that it's 'difficult' and consequently too heady. That's BS on both sides. The fact that both Yes and King Crimson had Billboard top 10 hits dispels the myth that complicated can't be popular. And of course conversely the musos claimed that with those hits, those bands had then 'sold out' (again, complete BS). You can't win.
Since this is my job i'm certainly aware of who likes what and maybe why or why not. I rarely adjust what I do based on who likes what (sometimes, but rarely). By this point in my life and career I've found that personal authenticity is what folks like about me. Sometimes I 'authentically' and honestly will adjust something that I play or write or adjust an approach based on another's opinion ... if I feel that that opinion is valid.


*Caveat. My personal perspective may be skewed.
My father is a semi retired musician so plenty of encouragement and 'influence' from home.
My wife likes music in general and my little kid sometimes sings songs all day long. We all do some gardening.
Most of my friends are musicians and the ones that aren't will come and hear me play when I'm gigging in their neighborhood or they're when not too busy or it's not too late. Most of us have kids now so it's not as easy as it used to be to just hang out at the club.


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jun 14 2013, 03:07 AM
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In my case I don't feel 100% connected to what you said in this thread. Most of my interaction with people is thanks to music. My friends come to my band's concerts, they ask me for listening to new songs, the same happens with most of my family and even with my girlfriend who really pays attention to what I do, and sometimes, she gives me ideas for new lessons or asks me for composing music to then create a video for it. Sometimes I compose music for specific reasons, for jobs, but most of the music that I compose is done because I want to do it, because I enjoy doing it and listening to it.


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deeaa
post Jun 14 2013, 06:20 AM
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Yeah, well, I don't really know why many people around me seem to hate what I do. I may for instance do a cover of some band my wife loves and she won't even want to hear it. She does like the kind of music I make, just not my music. Although how would she know, as she never checks it out. My kids like music too a lot, but aren't yet actively interested on mine.


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Zen Archer
post Jun 14 2013, 06:49 AM
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Hello GMC-ers.

I used to kind of make music in a "by me, for me" sense. Since then though, I've had a music teacher that sort of hammered it into me that
music is an expression that's meant to be shared with others, and doesn't have as much use locked up. Not that I'm supposed to entertain others with it so much (though that can be fun too), but that its meant for you to show others a you that you should want to show.

hope I've made sense and that it's related to the question haha.

Musicians vs Common Folk? why not make music that has enough incite-full/tricky things that musicians would be able to respect and catch and enjoy, while still being catchy enough for the common folk smile.gif
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deeaa
post Jun 14 2013, 09:27 AM
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It is...I mean, I do make music that's easy and popular style and usually well enough liked too...by strangers. Never by people around me. But, ultimately...who listens to music by unknown people...other musicians. If I have a hundred hits on some of my songs online, I bet 99 of them are from other players etc. The normal folk just doesn't run into unknown artists and songs really, and there is no simple way to publicize your music to 'common people' really. Used to be I had songs on the radio. Even TV sometime, but these days...no matter how good music you'd make,...


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jun 14 2013, 03:06 PM
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QUOTE (deeaa @ Jun 14 2013, 02:20 AM) *
Yeah, well, I don't really know why many people around me seem to hate what I do. I may for instance do a cover of some band my wife loves and she won't even want to hear it. She does like the kind of music I make, just not my music. Although how would she know, as she never checks it out. My kids like music too a lot, but aren't yet actively interested on mine.



yeah, I know that there is people who doesn't care about music. That people who you ask, what's your favourite band? and they don't have answers. As I don't have too much in common with this type of band, we don't become friends easily. tongue.gif


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SpaseMoonkey
post Jun 14 2013, 03:35 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jun 14 2013, 10:06 AM) *
yeah, I know that there is people who doesn't care about music. That people who you ask, what's your favourite band? and they don't have answers. As I don't have too much in common with this type of band, we don't become friends easily. tongue.gif


I have to say this tends to be true for me. If I can't do, say an hour car ride with you due to music. More than likely I will place space between them.

I've noticed I connect more to people who either play or have played an instrument, because you both relate to the time people put into the music more than just what it sounds like.


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klasaine
post Jun 14 2013, 04:13 PM
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I'm sure it's generational for me (I'm 51) as I don't know anybody that isn't 'into' music. I'm talking about musicians, hobbyists and laymen alike. It may have been regional too (Los Angeles) - ?
When I was in school (70s and early 80s) everybody - I mean e v e r y b o d y - was passionately into their bands and going to concerts. There were probably 5 competing rock bands in my high school. We'd compete to see who would play the coolest/biggest parties.
Music was an essential part of your lifestyle.
I've noticed that most of those friends and acquaintances (that I still keep in contact with) continue to be really into music. Maybe not the same music as when they were in high school but music nonetheless.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Jun 14 2013, 04:25 PM


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Cosmin Lupu
post Jun 15 2013, 03:07 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jun 14 2013, 02:07 AM) *
In my case I don't feel 100% connected to what you said in this thread. Most of my interaction with people is thanks to music. My friends come to my band's concerts, they ask me for listening to new songs, the same happens with most of my family and even with my girlfriend who really pays attention to what I do, and sometimes, she gives me ideas for new lessons or asks me for composing music to then create a video for it. Sometimes I compose music for specific reasons, for jobs, but most of the music that I compose is done because I want to do it, because I enjoy doing it and listening to it.


I totally relate to that smile.gif I have chosen the path I chose in life, because music has proven the strongest liaison both directly and indirectly in my relationship with people.



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Bogdan Radovic
post Aug 1 2013, 09:05 AM
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Very cool topic!

For me music brought a lot of wonderful things in my life and I really enjoy creating and playing it for others. When composing, I do make it for myself but I must admit that I sometimes think : "Wow - this section is going to be really cool on gigs for audience to sing it..." (example). People around me do support what I do and I can share my music with them. On the other hand - I mainly get a thrill for seeing complete strangers like my music as friends, family etc usually "like everything" smile.gif

I think it can be really demotivating if people around me wouldn't show support.
Thankfully - I did do my best to surround myself with musicians (GMC and offline) as I think that kind of environment is where I belong and it endlessly inspires me.

In the end - I do get a thrill of recording music and putting it online or publishing it digitally. With publishing, I really like the fact that at that moment music becomes eternal and will stay in existence (on iTunes or in stores/people hands if its on CD) forever.

If people like my music - that is just a great bonus in the full story! smile.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 1 2013, 11:05 AM
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QUOTE (Bogdan Radovic @ Aug 1 2013, 08:05 AM) *
Very cool topic!

For me music brought a lot of wonderful things in my life and I really enjoy creating and playing it for others. When composing, I do make it for myself but I must admit that I sometimes think : "Wow - this section is going to be really cool on gigs for audience to sing it..." (example). People around me do support what I do and I can share my music with them. On the other hand - I mainly get a thrill for seeing complete strangers like my music as friends, family etc usually "like everything" smile.gif

I think it can be really demotivating if people around me wouldn't show support.
Thankfully - I did do my best to surround myself with musicians (GMC and offline) as I think that kind of environment is where I belong and it endlessly inspires me.

In the end - I do get a thrill of recording music and putting it online or publishing it digitally. With publishing, I really like the fact that at that moment music becomes eternal and will stay in existence (on iTunes or in stores/people hands if its on CD) forever.

If people like my music - that is just a great bonus in the full story! smile.gif


True words man - if you don't like the music you are writing, I think that other people would feel it too and they would not react happily, right? I disagree with the idea of making music because others did it in a certain way and it will sell - no way. I don't think that it functions in such a way!


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Darius Wave
post Aug 1 2013, 01:30 PM
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I mostly do music for myself. Even if a do a "job" a always try to make things I'll be proud off.

Ken (klaseine) has a good point here. Many people don't respect good job made in pop music just becasue it's called pop. I do play pop myself and I think that no genre is bad itself. It's all about how much we bring into it.


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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 2 2013, 08:08 AM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Aug 1 2013, 12:30 PM) *
I mostly do music for myself. Even if a do a "job" a always try to make things I'll be proud off.

Ken (klaseine) has a good point here. Many people don't respect good job made in pop music just becasue it's called pop. I do play pop myself and I think that no genre is bad itself. It's all about how much we bring into it.


Exactly! I know A LOT of pop songs which are basically good songs, but the lyrics suck and the orchestrations are meant to 'not scare away' the 'average listener'. Re-orchestrate them - keep the vocal lines and harmonies tho - rewrite the lyrics and you might end up with a killer song!


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Darius Wave
post Aug 2 2013, 03:12 PM
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I rather mean some great work including awesome (awesome beacuse simply to listen) arrangements like Sting or Spyro Gyra smile.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 3 2013, 07:57 AM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Aug 2 2013, 02:12 PM) *
I rather mean some great work including awesome (awesome beacuse simply to listen) arrangements like Sting or Spyro Gyra smile.gif


I don't think of Sting as being pop biggrin.gif I don't know why, because you are entirely right, but somehow, my subconscious started associating pop music with something bad - see? laugh.gif Sting performed here on Wednesday - great show!


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Ben Higgins
post Aug 3 2013, 09:23 AM
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For me, the music has to serve myself first of all. Is is pleasing to me ? Satisfying to me ? Is it something I want to create ? When you create something, you're expressing yourself so it is my belief that if you are creating music (and not for a job or commission) then you should be creating it for yourself first.

Then you put it out into the world without expectation. There will be people who will love it and there will be people who wont. Once your creation has been put out into public consciousness, it's out of your hands.

But when it's in your hands, it's yours. So make it count for you smile.gif

QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Aug 3 2013, 07:57 AM) *
I don't think of Sting as being pop biggrin.gif I don't know why, because you are entirely right, but somehow, my subconscious started associating pop music with something bad - see? laugh.gif


Same thing with me, I didn't immediately associate him with pop either. The same with bands like U2.. because they seem too 'musician' like, maybe ??


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klasaine
post Aug 4 2013, 09:05 AM
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Sort of 'off topic' but POP means popular.
Mozart is pop. U2 is pop.
'Pop', for me, is not a bad word. Zep, Sabbath, Stones - they were all popular when I was growing up. They were played on AM radio ... hence, pop.


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Todd Simpson
post Aug 4 2013, 07:27 PM
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Bottom line, you may need to get away from your immediate circle for listeners smile.gif In some cases (not in every case of course) you need to reach out to the web/internet/youtube/forums to find people that actually want to hear original music, especially instrumental music, created by unknown artists.

Youtube is one of the best places to share as is GMC smile.gif At least here, other musicians will listen and give helpful suggestions. On some forums on the web, I"ve been turned off by how flat out mean the posters are to each other. Who has time for that?

Developing an "Audience" is it's own art entirely but one worth pursuing. One thing that might help is giving folks an incentive to listen. Make your tracsk available on youtube/soundcloud as "backing tracks" to let other folks solo on them. Also, start a student collab here @ GMC. Do anything needed to expand your audience to the point where you can find listeners and get feedback smile.gif The more the merrier.

But yeah, especially when you are first learning, most of your friends/fam really would rather not listen to your music. Even once you get really good, they still may not care, if your music is instrumental, that mostly speaks to musicians. Regular folks (on the whole not in every case again) like vocals and big "vocal hooks/catchy choruses" etc.

So don't let it get you down smile.gif You can build a fan base. It's being done as we speak all over the interwebs. TESSERACT is a good example. One guy, making stuff in his bedroom, posting on on sevenstring.org and asking for feedback. Eventually it grew in to a real band and now they have several records out and have toured quite a bit. It does happen, but it takes HUGE amounts of personal effort.

You can interest folks in listening to your music, but you have to start small, and find your niche. Give people a reason to listen to you over the 10 billion other folks making their own music. Part of the reason "folks" shy away is that now anyone can make really bad music at home in their spare time. There's so much bad music, it's hard to get away from it. So focus on making your music better and better and slowly growing an audience will happen smile.gif

This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Aug 4 2013, 07:35 PM


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bleez
post Aug 5 2013, 12:25 AM
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Todd > Yoda

great post, todd smile.gif


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