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sammetal92
post Jul 25 2013, 01:35 PM
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For a while, I've had this tune stuck in my head which I identified was from a bunch of youtube videos that I watched something like two years ago, so here's what I came up with. If I describe the music, its sort of like tenacious D meets Green day or something like that laugh.gif

My friend did the drums for me, I just cleaned them up a bit so they fit better with the mix, I don't know how he recorded or rendered the tracks, its his thing, not mine smile.gif the sound of superior or ez drummer is too artificial for me, so I don't use those smile.gif

The bass I did myself and the rhythm guitars, I still need some solo ideas, and I'm gonna be adding a bridge in there somewhere.

It goes like chorus verse chorus verse and that's pretty much it for now smile.gif

Do comment and give suggestions!

https://soundcloud.com/sam-ryan-stormrage/work-in-progress

EDIT: Oh, and please do suggest stuff to improve the tone of the guitars (both clean and distorted), because this isn't a final mix, its nowhere near final smile.gif

This post has been edited by sammetal92: Jul 25 2013, 01:36 PM


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VilleFIN
post Jul 25 2013, 02:16 PM
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Hey great ! More and more people are uploading their songs/projects !

Well I think this is a promising start but I would say complete song's structure first then fix the sound and tone. It's easier that way and when you think you got the right tone you can use it on your next projects and you don't have worry the tone anymore but only concentrate the song itself smile.gif

Well that clean guitar part is cool and usable but it's way too loud and clipping. Dist. sound is okay maybe little fine tuning perhaps.

Also I would raise the tempo a bit but it's your song - so do what you like smile.gif

Tell us what software you use for the sounds and mixing !


-Ville-

This post has been edited by WeePee: Jul 25 2013, 02:22 PM


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sammetal92
post Jul 25 2013, 02:33 PM
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QUOTE (WeePee @ Jul 25 2013, 01:16 PM) *
Hey great ! More and more people are uploading their songs/projects !

Well I think this is a promising start but I would say complete song's structure first then fix the sound and tone. It's easier that way and when you think you got the right tone you can use it on your next projects and you don't have worry the tone anymore but only concentrate the song itself smile.gif

Well that clean guitar part is cool and usable but it's way too loud and clipping. Dist. sound is okay maybe little fine tuning perhaps.

Also I would raise the tempo a bit but it's your song - so do what you like smile.gif

Tell us what software you use for the sounds and mixing !


-Ville-


Weepee tongue.gif I love your tones biggrin.gif Give me some ideas tongue.gif

The tempo is 100BPM, should I raise it to 120?

The DAW I use is reaper, for the plugins I use a variety of them, only one that I paid for, everything else is free smile.gif

Distorted Rhythm Guitars: TSE808 -> Poulin Solo C Head -> keFIR loaded with a Catharsis Fredman Impulse named "s-pres8.wav"
Clean Guitars: NRR1 preamp -> TPA1 amp (both are from Ignite Amps)

The bass is recorded with just a plugin called GhettoBass.

The guitars go into their master track which has an equalizer and a sonic maximizer from BBE Sound (the only plugin that's paid).


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jul 25 2013, 02:56 PM
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Hi Sam! Congrats on creating your own music man! smile.gif

I think that this is a great first step. You already have 2 important sections for the song: Verse & Chorus. I think that now you have to work on structure and define which other parts are you going to add to this one. Normally, you should add an introduction, a second verse that could be a bit different (maybe just with a different arrangement) and then a part C and/or solo section. I recommend you to analyze some of your favorite songs to know what structures are used on them and at first copy one of this structures, it's the best way to start.

Tempo could be increased a bit, I think that the groove is too slow, maybe if you add 3 or 5 bpm, everything will sound tighter.

Regarding guitar tone, I think that it's good, you could equalize it a bit or add a multiband compressor because sometimes I hear some bass frequencies that saturate a bit. I can hear the bass very well, give it more volume & compression, and don't forget to exaggerate the frequencies around 1.5 Hz and 2.5 Hz to get definition.



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sammetal92
post Jul 25 2013, 03:58 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jul 25 2013, 01:56 PM) *
Hi Sam! Congrats on creating your own music man! smile.gif

I think that this is a great first step. You already have 2 important sections for the song: Verse & Chorus. I think that now you have to work on structure and define which other parts are you going to add to this one. Normally, you should add an introduction, a second verse that could be a bit different (maybe just with a different arrangement) and then a part C and/or solo section. I recommend you to analyze some of your favorite songs to know what structures are used on them and at first copy one of this structures, it's the best way to start.

Tempo could be increased a bit, I think that the groove is too slow, maybe if you add 3 or 5 bpm, everything will sound tighter.

Regarding guitar tone, I think that it's good, you could equalize it a bit or add a multiband compressor because sometimes I hear some bass frequencies that saturate a bit. I can hear the bass very well, give it more volume & compression, and don't forget to exaggerate the frequencies around 1.5 Hz and 2.5 Hz to get definition.


Comrpessors have always confused me laugh.gif I guess I'll learn by experimenting smile.gif

I use Reaper's own EQ plugin, if you know another good EQ plugin, do tell smile.gif

And I'll boost those frequencies.

I was thinking about going to 110BPM or 120BPM, right now its 100BPM. What do you think? smile.gif

And thanks for listeining biggrin.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jul 25 2013, 04:04 PM
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QUOTE (sammetal92 @ Jul 25 2013, 11:58 AM) *
Comrpessors have always confused me laugh.gif I guess I'll learn by experimenting smile.gif

I use Reaper's own EQ plugin, if you know another good EQ plugin, do tell smile.gif

And I'll boost those frequencies.

I was thinking about going to 110BPM or 120BPM, right now its 100BPM. What do you think? smile.gif

And thanks for listeining biggrin.gif



You should check Tony Miro's thread about compressors:

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...showtopic=42670

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...showtopic=42688

I think that you should experiment with both tempos, maybe record both verse and chorus over it and check both versions after some time of resting your ears. You can post them here if you want.


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sammetal92
post Jul 25 2013, 04:06 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jul 25 2013, 03:04 PM) *
You should check Tony Miro's thread about compressors:

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...showtopic=42670

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...showtopic=42688

I think that you should experiment with both tempos, maybe record both verse and chorus over it and check both versions after some time of resting your ears. You can post them here if you want.


Changing tempo is very easy in Reaper tongue.gif

This post has been edited by sammetal92: Jul 25 2013, 04:10 PM


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jul 25 2013, 04:14 PM
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QUOTE (sammetal92 @ Jul 25 2013, 12:06 PM) *
Changing tempo is very easy in Reaper tongue.gif



yeah! but it's not as easy as defining the best tempo for a track. biggrin.gif


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Darius Wave
post Jul 25 2013, 09:23 PM
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QUOTE (sammetal92 @ Jul 25 2013, 01:33 PM) *
Weepee tongue.gif I love your tones biggrin.gif Give me some ideas tongue.gif

The tempo is 100BPM, should I raise it to 120?

The DAW I use is reaper, for the plugins I use a variety of them, only one that I paid for, everything else is free smile.gif

Distorted Rhythm Guitars: TSE808 -> Poulin Solo C Head -> keFIR loaded with a Catharsis Fredman Impulse named "s-pres8.wav"
Clean Guitars: NRR1 preamp -> TPA1 amp (both are from Ignite Amps)

The bass is recorded with just a plugin called GhettoBass.

The guitars go into their master track which has an equalizer and a sonic maximizer from BBE Sound (the only plugin that's paid).




I think that the gear / plug-ins You use are very good and You just need to make some research about the settings...I mean mostly Your own tests. For now it still sounds like guitars, bss and drums are too much separated from each other but this is mostly a matter of a Low Cuts on each and messing with some mid range in guitars.


As for the EZ drummer or superior I won't agree. in 90% cases the problem is that musicians other than drummers don't understand some basic mechanics of playing drums and they do mistakes like velocity 127 on every single note, They forget about accents. They forget about some natural "non-quantized" playing, ghost notes or (my favourite) they forget that drummers have only two hands and they arrange drums for a 4-hand playing biggrin.gif


Making Good drums in EZ takes a lot of time and practice...but keep in mind the things I mentioned. Drum machines we are able to use right now are much more advanced and much more detailed in case of dynamic.



Take a look at one of my originals.Hear what's happening with the drums dynamic when the verse goes to chorus. Also hear what is going on at the and of the chorus.

You can have nice, natural dynamics from EZD but it needs a lot of work (still the version I post needs more work)



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sammetal92
post Jul 26 2013, 12:22 AM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Jul 25 2013, 08:23 PM) *
I think that the gear / plug-ins You use are very good and You just need to make some research about the settings...I mean mostly Your own tests. For now it still sounds like guitars, bss and drums are too much separated from each other but this is mostly a matter of a Low Cuts on each and messing with some mid range in guitars.


As for the EZ drummer or superior I won't agree. in 90% cases the problem is that musicians other than drummers don't understand some basic mechanics of playing drums and they do mistakes like velocity 127 on every single note, They forget about accents. They forget about some natural "non-quantized" playing, ghost notes or (my favourite) they forget that drummers have only two hands and they arrange drums for a 4-hand playing biggrin.gif


Making Good drums in EZ takes a lot of time and practice...but keep in mind the things I mentioned. Drum machines we are able to use right now are much more advanced and much more detailed in case of dynamic.



Take a look at one of my originals.Hear what's happening with the drums dynamic when the verse goes to chorus. Also hear what is going on at the and of the chorus.

You can have nice, natural dynamics from EZD but it needs a lot of work (still the version I post needs more work)



Hey Darius, thanks for such a detailed feedback, and most of the stuff you said I think I hear it the same as you do smile.gif

Any tips for making the three sit better respectively in the mix? the bass the guitars and the drums? Since I posted this topic, I've increased the tempo of the song from 100 to 110, 120 sounded too tight. And I've added compressors to each of the guitar tracks. I've also equalized the bass to highlight some signature frequencies as Gabriel suggested smile.gif

I do play drums, not a lot, but I can play, I didn't have much problems with making beats in EZ drummer, but it still sounded too midi like. Then when my friend played it, who's a drummer who's making the drum tracks for this song, it sounded so much better recorded and mastered... I guess it all comes down to preference and what you can do to make it sound good, and you know how to work with EZ drummer obviously, after listening to your song biggrin.gif its awesome smile.gif


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Patrik Berg
post Jul 26 2013, 12:32 AM
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Nice work Sam, some nice riffs in there, cut the bass a bit on the overdriven guitar tone and watch the gain at the input stage. Love the natural drum sound, it's a great start.


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sammetal92
post Jul 26 2013, 01:04 AM
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QUOTE (Patrik Berg @ Jul 25 2013, 11:32 PM) *
Nice work Sam, some nice riffs in there, cut the bass a bit on the overdriven guitar tone and watch the gain at the input stage. Love the natural drum sound, it's a great start.


Thanks a lot mate biggrin.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Jul 26 2013, 08:29 AM
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Hey buddy, I think you are on to something here smile.gif I think that everyone came with great input and I will add my 2 cents as well: DO NOT STOP writing music smile.gif The more you will do it, the better you will become. Your evolution will be noticed, once you gain more and more experience and another important thing - you have ALL of us here to help you with our feedback - I promise we will do our best to listen and not just critique smile.gif It is very hard to just listen and not think in technical terms but that is what one should relate to and use as feedback, because in the end, you are not writing music for music geeks but for usual listeners.

Keep these things in mind and start working on finishing this song and of course show us more!

Cosmin


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sammetal92
post Jul 26 2013, 09:03 AM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Jul 26 2013, 07:29 AM) *
Hey buddy, I think you are on to something here smile.gif I think that everyone came with great input and I will add my 2 cents as well: DO NOT STOP writing music smile.gif The more you will do it, the better you will become. Your evolution will be noticed, once you gain more and more experience and another important thing - you have ALL of us here to help you with our feedback - I promise we will do our best to listen and not just critique smile.gif It is very hard to just listen and not think in technical terms but that is what one should relate to and use as feedback, because in the end, you are not writing music for music geeks but for usual listeners.

Keep these things in mind and start working on finishing this song and of course show us more!

Cosmin


Thanks for that Cosmin, really gave me a push in the right direction smile.gif

Still, I want to take the time to make it the first "special" one biggrin.gif I may be adding lyrics to it in the end, I'm leaving space for vocals to come in smile.gif


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Taka Perry
post Jul 26 2013, 09:11 AM
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I like this. It's a very nice start to the song! I think if you tighten up the guitar parts here and there, it will sound much nicer smile.gif I think if you put a bit of reverb on the guitars (especially in the clean section), they would sound bigger and fuller. Also, I think the volume of the clean and distorted part is a little different, but that can be fic

The amp sims you're using are really good, great choice. I really think that LePou's amp sims are better than most commercial sims, and I mean that.

Are you planning to do vocals on this? I think it would fit the piece nicely. Otherwise, you could think about a lead guitar part or something.

Looking forward to hearing more stuff!


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Darius Wave
post Jul 26 2013, 09:34 AM
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About the drums I think it's a matter of preferences.I would agree with You at some points because I also record live drums every time it's possible smile.gif

About the mixing I found that it's always hard to give any 100% correct advices smile.gif As for what I hear right (aside fromsome advanced tips) I would simply cur more lows from the guitars and increse the bass volume. No i feel like it's too muchsomewhere around 100Hz in guitars. Also the clean guitar sounds to loud. You can lower the volume or cut som "vocal midrange" like 1-3 kHz ..finaleffect will be similar.

I would also doube the distortion guitars and mess with some reverb because now it's ab it dry. Always try to create some "stage" feel with the mix. Don't make instruments that raw smile.gif It's not natural smile.gif

I had (or probably still have and will have always) some problems to match the mix to many different home audio systems. You bass level sounds Like You've been mising on some 2 +1 (sub) system smile.gif or maybe too much bass coming from the guitars make not able to set up good level for the bass guitar



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Bogdan Radovic
post Jul 26 2013, 11:50 AM
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Very nice song! smile.gif

I think you have got almost all the elements you need to complete a really cool song. Every song starts with something, a verse, riff, chorus or vocal line etc. You have got all the elements needed here.

What I notice first hand when listening the song for the first time :

* Drums/groove doesn't match the guitar perfectly. Try re-recording guitars to match the groove the drummer is playing, you should be able to feel it by temporarily making the drum track very loud while recording and really concentrating on the kick and snare drums. Maybe experiment with adding a bit of palm muting here and there to make the distortion part more dynamic.

* Bass guitar is hard to hear but I think you could develop the line just a bit more. For example, for this type of verse it is good to have a "flowing" bass line. For example, playing straight 8th notes and then catching accents you do on guitar when changing chords. Do you have a possibility to record completely dry bass? What bass players do when recording is to use a DI unit and go straight to the mixer (preamp). That way you can capture completely dry signal of your bass straight from the bass guitar. Once you have that signal, you can add compression and EQ in your DAW and you should be good to go. That signal will sound excellent and be very good for mixing. Having bass go through some modeling/cab plugin can only make it very muddy and lower sound quality significantly. I haven't yet heard a good bass guitar plugin that can work "on its own". What people do is mix the DI (dry) signal with that colored plugin tone. DI gives the clarity and body to the sound and plugin (or amp recording) gives color. Experiment a bit and see how it goes.

Once you have the groove part of the song fixed, you are only missing vocals and some possible bridge section for the song.

Very good work - please keep us updated on this one! smile.gif





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VilleFIN
post Jul 26 2013, 12:31 PM
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QUOTE (sammetal92 @ Jul 25 2013, 05:33 PM) *
Weepee tongue.gif I love your tones biggrin.gif Give me some ideas tongue.gif

The tempo is 100BPM, should I raise it to 120?

The DAW I use is reaper, for the plugins I use a variety of them, only one that I paid for, everything else is free smile.gif

Distorted Rhythm Guitars: TSE808 -> Poulin Solo C Head -> keFIR loaded with a Catharsis Fredman Impulse named "s-pres8.wav"
Clean Guitars: NRR1 preamp -> TPA1 amp (both are from Ignite Amps)

The bass is recorded with just a plugin called GhettoBass.

The guitars go into their master track which has an equalizer and a sonic maximizer from BBE Sound (the only plugin that's paid).


Hey man Thank You smile.gif

Put 10 bpm more and listen how does it sound and record again.
I could re-amp your tone but it would be too easy for you wink.gif (and maybe my sounds wouldn't work for your guitar...)You have to go through all the tone tweaking like I had to.
But I can really recommend to try Ezmix2 from Toontrack - it's really useful for bedroom guitarist - like us cool.gif
Also check out Youtube for mixing, how to achieve metal tone etc. etc. There's a lot of info. But of course we will help you too !!


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sammetal92
post Jul 26 2013, 01:03 PM
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Okay so I took a lot of opinions. So this is what I changed:

. Increased tempo from 100 BPM to 110 BPM.
. Made four distorted rhythm guitar tracks instead of two.
. Put compressors on each of all eight guitar tracks.
. Made a bridge and a solo section (the solo isn't done yet, this one is without the actual solo).
. Cut the bass in the distorted rhythm guitars a bit, and boosted the bass guitar frequencies with EQ.
. Fine tuned EQ settings for all the guitar tracks.
. Added a bit of reverb to both distorted and clean guitars.

Give it a listen and tell me what you guys think of it now and what else I can do to improve smile.gif

https://soundcloud.com/sam-ryan-stormrage/rock-project

EDIT: Bogdan: Thanks for the listen and the feedback! biggrin.gif I tried to line up the tracks, but they do get a bit out of sync when you listen to what you've recorded, I've noticed that. No matter how good my timing is, I always have to adjust it a bit (and I always practice with a metronome).

I don't really have a bass guitar, I just used a plugin to change my guitar lines into bass lines sad.gif that's what the Ghetto Bass plugin does for me. Like I recorded as one normally records and I played the bass line as it was supposed to be played in my mind over the music, but the GhettoBass plugin converted the tone 12 semitones down with less pick attack.

Ville: Thanks man, I'll try that plugin out smile.gif

This post has been edited by sammetal92: Jul 26 2013, 01:05 PM


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Darius Wave
post Jul 26 2013, 01:54 PM
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Why do I have a feeling like all guitars are mono? Haven't You pan mleft/right? I have to get close Look when I'll be back home and have my equipement available. As for the reverb it's better...more natural space. And the bass is also better but still the lowest end is not tight. Try to use some analyzer to find most boomy freqs because there are a few notes that stand out of the mix in the 40 to 80 Hz range and I'm sure it's not a matter of my room. First of all check the panning of the guitars.

As for the reverb: I usually use same reverb type (room size, predelay) but with few different tone settings and length. For guitar I would use a reverb with a bit of high end cut, lots of low cut and short sustain so they don;t get muddy. Bass - no reverb or just a very tinyamount but only cutted to the high midrange so it doesn't hurt the low end.

For snare I would use same very but with more breath (less treble cut) and longer sustain. It's important to keep the "one, the same room" feeling but sometimes one setting of a reverb is not quite good for all instruments. This is why people use multiple reverb tracks with same reverb preset only different tone and sustain settings smile.gif

I did a quick analysis. See the attached print screen. I set the cursor line at the levels Your bass play at the "equal moments". Now seemls like the low end has a lots of bosted loew end on particular notes. That's why Your bass is to boomy at some moents and dissappers at other ones

Attached Image

You can also see the proportion between the low range and other frequencies. Cursor range according to the "shadow" image. I would leave the low mid at the level it is so the bass would be visible even on the smaller speakers but low end need cut for sure


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