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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 5 2013, 12:06 PM
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I just found out about this awesome little piece of gear that basically corrects your studio mixing room. How cool is that? Basically this sort of device was pretty expensive out of what I heard, until this little dude came out recently.

The description says: ARC System 2 (Advanced Room Correction) is the sequel of the first and only acoustic correction system that combines a measurement microphone, measurement software AND a correction plug-in to improve the sound reliability and acoustics of your studio in an elegant, low-cost portable solution.

Have you guys ever worked with such a thing? Here's more about it: ARC 2


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Darius Wave
post Aug 5 2013, 12:39 PM
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Cool one. I think it's worth trying. Anyway...I was always afraid about resonating frequencies sustain. It's something that is not removeable at any eq level...needs room treatments...This is way I decided to trust Spectrum Analyzers a bit more in the ranges where my room is not trust worth...


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Mertay
post Aug 5 2013, 03:07 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Aug 5 2013, 11:39 AM) *
Cool one. I think it's worth trying. Anyway...I was always afraid about resonating frequencies sustain. It's something that is not removeable at any eq level...needs room treatments...This is way I decided to trust Spectrum Analyzers a bit more in the ranges where my room is not trust worth...


+1 to me this system is more for monitor response flattening rather than dealing with reflections. Although I must add such approach also doesn't work much smile.gif the cone of the speaker startes to act wierd and sound gets muddy. By muddy I mean not like decrease of treble but details disapper in a wierd way...


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Aug 5 2013, 03:47 PM
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This is something very useful! I remember that I had a big resonance on a low frequency at my studio's old control room and I had put an EQ before my Monitors. This would be a more precise way to do it.


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Todd Simpson
post Aug 6 2013, 06:18 AM
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JBL makes a set of monitors that have something similar built in. It comes with a microphone and the speakers connect via Ethernet smile.gif So you connect them, and run the calibration and bingo! smile.gif It's not perfect of course, but it will help smooth out the rough edges of a given room.



QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Aug 5 2013, 07:06 AM) *
I just found out about this awesome little piece of gear that basically corrects your studio mixing room. How cool is that? Basically this sort of device was pretty expensive out of what I heard, until this little dude came out recently.

The description says: ARC System 2 (Advanced Room Correction) is the sequel of the first and only acoustic correction system that combines a measurement microphone, measurement software AND a correction plug-in to improve the sound reliability and acoustics of your studio in an elegant, low-cost portable solution.

Have you guys ever worked with such a thing? Here's more about it: ARC 2



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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 6 2013, 08:23 AM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Aug 5 2013, 02:07 PM) *
+1 to me this system is more for monitor response flattening rather than dealing with reflections. Although I must add such approach also doesn't work much smile.gif the cone of the speaker startes to act wierd and sound gets muddy. By muddy I mean not like decrease of treble but details disapper in a wierd way...


So, that means you tried it? Or maybe something similar?

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Aug 6 2013, 05:18 AM) *
JBL makes a set of monitors that have something similar built in. It comes with a microphone and the speakers connect via Ethernet smile.gif So you connect them, and run the calibration and bingo! smile.gif It's not perfect of course, but it will help smooth out the rough edges of a given room.




Thanks for the tip Todd, I was talking to our bassplayer yesterday and he told me about this device and that he would like to purchase it, so I thought that maybe some of you guys have had experiences with it or something similar and I thought I'd ask first smile.gif


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Darius Wave
post Aug 6 2013, 11:52 AM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Aug 6 2013, 07:23 AM) *
So, that means you tried it? Or maybe something similar?



Thanks for the tip Todd, I was talking to our bassplayer yesterday and he told me about this device and that he would like to purchase it, so I thought that maybe some of you guys have had experiences with it or something similar and I thought I'd ask first smile.gif



I think that I can say for both (Me an Mertay) that we both tried it. The problem with room resonating frequencies is not only their volume boost but also their time of resonance so they affect the way You hear low end anyway. The difference is:

1. With room treatments - like with guitar playing two separated notes = they are equal in volume and they sound SEPARATED (when second one begins, first one is muted)

2. With EQ treatments - both notes have equal volume but it's like the first one will sustain while You hit the other one. Than You have a moment of two notes ringing togehter

Hope it really does sound the way I wanted it to sound and it's clear smile.gif


Another example. When You make a mattering You play a reference file like 30 -500 Hz. In a theory the perfect room would give back exactly the same, equal diagram after recording this file with a microphone (just like with this plug-in).

Let's say Your 60 Hz is one of the room resonance frequencies. On the mic recording spectrum diagram You'll see it's much louder. You can cut that volume boost with EQ but what You can't cut is a time that this frequency sustain ( When You watch mentioned diagram You'll see that it shows 60 Hz in the time markers where soulh already sound 61, 62, 63 Hz etc according to the reference 30-500 Hz file)


Damn...seems to be so simple thing but I became confused about it sounding clear enough....

This post has been edited by Darius Wave: Aug 6 2013, 11:56 AM


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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 6 2013, 02:56 PM
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Hey D-man, thanks for the explanations - I think I get it, as a principle - I have no knowledge of parameters whatsoever unfortunately, but just a few hours ago I got my hands on two books:

1) Dr. Tom Misner - Practical Studio Techniques
2) Bill Gibson - Mixing and Mastering Audio Recordings

Do you know anything about these maybe?


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Todd Simpson
post Aug 6 2013, 08:39 PM
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Sure thing smile.gif Room correction can be really handy. Especially when working in less than ideal spaces. The JBLs and other speakers have it built in, but you can always buy it stand alone like the ARC system. Either way, it can really save mixes from sufferent at the hands of bad room accoustics.

Keep in mind though, that some audio guys are dead set against it, since it's munging with what's coming out of the speaker, and they'd say "fix the room" instead. I appreciate that, but fixing the room isn't always feasible or possible. So it's good to have other options!!

Todd

QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Aug 6 2013, 03:23 AM) *
So, that means you tried it? Or maybe something similar?



Thanks for the tip Todd, I was talking to our bassplayer yesterday and he told me about this device and that he would like to purchase it, so I thought that maybe some of you guys have had experiences with it or something similar and I thought I'd ask first smile.gif



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Mertay
post Aug 6 2013, 10:29 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Aug 6 2013, 07:23 AM) *
So, that means you tried it? Or maybe something similar?


Used a mic and inserted an eq plug-in at the end of DAW.

Its important to understand, room freq. notches are created by reflections while eq is a static tool.

With such tool, when flattening the responce of the room you manipulate your tonal aesthetics because though untouched inside the box you're still eq'ing the source (vocal, guitar etc.).

Such approach to aesthetics cannot be fixed in the mastering stage while fixing freq. banace issue's is what mastering is pretty much for smile.gif

This post has been edited by Mertay: Aug 6 2013, 10:32 PM


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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 7 2013, 07:59 AM
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Wow, thank you for your answers guys. Adrian, the bass player in my band will most probably thank you as well smile.gif


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Rammikin
post Aug 8 2013, 02:32 AM
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I've tried solving room resonance problems with an eq strapped into the master channel. It does indeed work, but with limitations. The biggest limitation is that resonance peaks in small rooms tend to be highly localized. If you move your ears a few inches, the standing wave that causes the peak now sounds different and the eq that was applied for the first location is no longer effective. If you're working alone in one spot that might be ok. But in general these compensators work best when the coloration you're trying to defeat comes not from resonance, but instead from absorption at the surfaces in the room.



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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 8 2013, 07:45 AM
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QUOTE (Rammikin @ Aug 8 2013, 01:32 AM) *
I've tried solving room resonance problems with an eq strapped into the master channel. It does indeed work, but with limitations. The biggest limitation is that resonance peaks in small rooms tend to be highly localized. If you move your ears a few inches, the standing wave that causes the peak now sounds different and the eq that was applied for the first location is no longer effective. If you're working alone in one spot that might be ok. But in general these compensators work best when the coloration you're trying to defeat comes not from resonance, but instead from absorption at the surfaces in the room.


Thank you man - so, this whole ARC thing is not such a great thing, after all, out of what I am concluding..


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Rammikin
post Aug 8 2013, 03:25 PM
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It depends on the problem you're trying to solve. The most common acoustic problems in small rectangular studios are resonance and reflective comb filtering. It's possible to defend against those problems with an eq-based solution like ARC, but because those effects vary throughout the room, the eq is usually effective only at one precise location in the room.


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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 9 2013, 08:19 AM
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QUOTE (Rammikin @ Aug 8 2013, 02:25 PM) *
It depends on the problem you're trying to solve. The most common acoustic problems in small rectangular studios are resonance and reflective comb filtering. It's possible to defend against those problems with an eq-based solution like ARC, but because those effects vary throughout the room, the eq is usually effective only at one precise location in the room.


I understand... so the best option with the ARC, for instance, is to set the correction in the spot where you are sitting while mixing - that is - your chair - correct?


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Taka Perry
post Aug 9 2013, 08:52 AM
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This plugin looks kinda cool. I remember coming across it a while back while on IK's website.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but these room correction things only apply if you're micing up amps and instruments? If you're going DI into your audio interface, does it really matter whether your room's acoustics are nicely tuned?


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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 10 2013, 08:20 AM
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QUOTE (Taka Perry @ Aug 9 2013, 07:52 AM) *
This plugin looks kinda cool. I remember coming across it a while back while on IK's website.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but these room correction things only apply if you're micing up amps and instruments? If you're going DI into your audio interface, does it really matter whether your room's acoustics are nicely tuned?


I have no clue either - let's see what the guys say smile.gif Darius? Rammikin? Todd? biggrin.gif


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Darius Wave
post Aug 11 2013, 02:14 PM
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QUOTE (Taka Perry @ Aug 9 2013, 07:52 AM) *
This plugin looks kinda cool. I remember coming across it a while back while on IK's website.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but these room correction things only apply if you're micing up amps and instruments? If you're going DI into your audio interface, does it really matter whether your room's acoustics are nicely tuned?




Wrong...those corrections are like setting the LCD to make the white look like a white (not like a blue-white or something), black like a black etc...
You know...sort of White Balance adjustment.

They help You to be sure while doing mixes. For example when You hear that one particular note (on the bass guitar) seems to be too loud comparing to other notes You can be sure it really is the case of mix /recording. Without room treatments or this kind of plug-ins You have to check the frequency analyser before touching any eq...it might be not the bass guitar, but the room that makes this note sound louder.

If You don't make any room correction You might make some huge mistakes in the mix...same like with editting the photos...If You change colors and Your monitor is not a good reference than on someone elses screen Your photo can have bad color adjustments.


It's only a half of the job to make recording sound good at Your room, on Your monitors. Second half is to make it sound good or within tolerance on most of available speakers.


Room treatments have huge advantage - they help also when You record anything via microphone. Plug-in cannot fix this. It fixes only while playing or recording via line in.


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Aug 12 2013, 12:24 AM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Aug 6 2013, 10:56 AM) *
Hey D-man, thanks for the explanations - I think I get it, as a principle - I have no knowledge of parameters whatsoever unfortunately, but just a few hours ago I got my hands on two books:

1) Dr. Tom Misner - Practical Studio Techniques
2) Bill Gibson - Mixing and Mastering Audio Recordings

Do you know anything about these maybe?



Hey Cosmin! Those books sound good... I don't know them. this gave me the idea of starting a thread where everybody could recommend mixing and mastering books. smile.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 12 2013, 06:56 AM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Aug 11 2013, 01:14 PM) *
Wrong...those corrections are like setting the LCD to make the white look like a white (not like a blue-white or something), black like a black etc...
You know...sort of White Balance adjustment.

They help You to be sure while doing mixes. For example when You hear that one particular note (on the bass guitar) seems to be too loud comparing to other notes You can be sure it really is the case of mix /recording. Without room treatments or this kind of plug-ins You have to check the frequency analyser before touching any eq...it might be not the bass guitar, but the room that makes this note sound louder.

If You don't make any room correction You might make some huge mistakes in the mix...same like with editting the photos...If You change colors and Your monitor is not a good reference than on someone elses screen Your photo can have bad color adjustments.


It's only a half of the job to make recording sound good at Your room, on Your monitors. Second half is to make it sound good or within tolerance on most of available speakers.


Room treatments have huge advantage - they help also when You record anything via microphone. Plug-in cannot fix this. It fixes only while playing or recording via line in.


Now this clears things up even more smile.gif D-man, I have to say, you seem to be a very experienced fellow smile.gif


QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Aug 11 2013, 11:24 PM) *
Hey Cosmin! Those books sound good... I don't know them. this gave me the idea of starting a thread where everybody could recommend mixing and mastering books. smile.gif


Alright! Do that and I will post these two with links and all smile.gif


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