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> Andy Timmons Electric Gypsy Cover, Andy Timmons Electric Gypsy Cover
Jim S.
post Aug 13 2013, 12:03 AM
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Andy Timmons Electric Gypsy Video

This is my first cover done using mainly my ears. The song Electric Gypsy by Andy Timmons from the That Was Then, This is Now album intrigued instantly.

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The intro is a open D major melody in style of Jimi Hendrix ending in a power chord. It is hard to remember because of how long it its and as the band enters Andy plays this beautiful lick that took me so long to figure out.

The Tapped Harmonics section is clever and thought out. This area I need to work more on. The technique is tapping 12 frets above the note your fretting. Id like to adopt the right hand technique of Leonardo Guzman, he uses his fingers like a pianist, I use my whole arm to strike.... He is a beast.

The bridge into main melody consists of an open E minor7 and another Hendrix style hammer on rhythm. It has a very distinct Screaming F# over the Emin7.

The first solo was one that would make me stop and really pay attention while it played during work. There are really beautiful prebends with vibrado and colorful note choices. This section ends with a hybrid picked diminished lick descending in minor thirds with a perfect resolution.

The main melody is repeated again but its cut short the second time around to start the outro solo. This solo still needs a little work but I had to eventually just shoot and run with what I could. The main point to this solo are the fast descending trills and odd groupings of notes during the runs.

I learned this song using two methods. The first method was watching these videos http://www.guitarlessons365.com/song-lesso...itar-lessons-2/

This gave me the basic understanding of what was going on in the song. From there I used a great program (Amazing Slow Downer) this allowed me to slow the song way down and loop individual sections. It also allowed me to change the whole song up in semitones.

The original song is tuned down a half step but the backing track I'm playing over is in standard tuning. This became a problem switching back and forth between guitars.

The Gear:
Ibanez S Prestige
Digitech Gnx4
Ibanez Tube Screamer
BBE Sonic Maximizer
Traynor Guitar Mate
Peavey Mace VT
Phonic Firefly Firewire

Software
Logic Pro 9
Final Cut Pro
Amazing Slow Downer
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Darius Wave
post Aug 13 2013, 12:23 AM
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You already know what I think Jim smile.gif Andy Timmons is a great player to study his playing:)


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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 13 2013, 08:31 AM
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Howdy Jim smile.gif

Alongside almost every tune from Andy, this one happens to be one that I like very much smile.gif I think you did a great job learning it and understanding what's happening - it is not easy at all! What I notice is that at this point, you are simply going through it linking all the parts, but the next step would be to learn how to interpret it - see, Andy plays some parts harder, others softer and so on. You are playing everything at the same dynamic level. I think that this would be the next step in your journey with this tune smile.gif

For instance, the intro should be played softer as well as the harmonics part - a lighter touch and then things should be gradually brought up with a harder touch as you progress in the song. Let me know if it's clear, ok?


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PosterBoy
post Aug 13 2013, 09:08 AM
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This song was my introduction to Andy, his phrasing is excellent but hard to copy!


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Jim S.
post Aug 14 2013, 01:43 AM
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Cosmin, thank you. I think keeping it in my repitoire will help me get a better grasp on confidence to play it. Almost every part has a different level dynamically and man that is going to be a challenge. Also I think I need to be able to improvise a little too but that is going to take really understanding where he is going with it. I will keep practicing and learning. Thank you for your reply and help along my way

Thanks to you Darius! Appreciate it

Oh one main problem I had was trying to mimic his tone, it is clear and not overdriven much but sometimes it was. If my volume level was down the harmonics would not come through and it seemed that I had to stick with a part over driven setting. Id like to find a tone similar to his
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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 14 2013, 07:41 AM
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QUOTE (Jim Seekford @ Aug 14 2013, 12:43 AM) *
Cosmin, thank you. I think keeping it in my repitoire will help me get a better grasp on confidence to play it. Almost every part has a different level dynamically and man that is going to be a challenge. Also I think I need to be able to improvise a little too but that is going to take really understanding where he is going with it. I will keep practicing and learning. Thank you for your reply and help along my way

Thanks to you Darius! Appreciate it

Oh one main problem I had was trying to mimic his tone, it is clear and not overdriven much but sometimes it was. If my volume level was down the harmonics would not come through and it seemed that I had to stick with a part over driven setting. Id like to find a tone similar to his


Glad to know I could help out, man smile.gif What sort of gear are you using for the tone? Andy is using a tube amp most likely and a lot of those dynamics come from his hands - his tone is crunchy, but when he hits lightly it sounds cleaner and when he attacks with more aggressiveness, it will sound angrier.


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PosterBoy
post Aug 14 2013, 09:06 AM
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Andy's tone is based around the Mesa Lonestar and stiletto and a Chandler Tube driver and BB Preamp, I think he uses a compressor on his cleans.

His tone is a lot darker and warmer than yours Jim, but he manages not to get it sounding muddy and still has clarity and definition


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Jim S.
post Aug 14 2013, 10:59 PM
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Well I have a digitech gnx4, ibanez tube screamer into a traynor guitar mate and a 1980's peavey mace vt tube head. Yeah he has a real nice tone.
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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 15 2013, 08:21 AM
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QUOTE (Jim Seekford @ Aug 14 2013, 09:59 PM) *
Well I have a digitech gnx4, ibanez tube screamer into a traynor guitar mate and a 1980's peavey mace vt tube head. Yeah he has a real nice tone.


Hmmm - at first glance, you could use the Peavey head and the tube screamer together for the raw tone and add the effects from the GNX (reverb and/or delay) - how did you arrange the chain for recording?


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Jim S.
post Aug 15 2013, 05:37 PM
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Ok so keep in mind that I lost my cabinets because of space. The only speaker is from the traynor amp.

The signal from guitar goes into tube screamer, gnx4, splits to both amps. I rebuilt the peavey and replaced all caps and resistors and tubes. Since the original amp did not put much gain out I opted for Groove Tube 10's assuming the gnx4 would handle the gain. I'm not sure if it was a bad idea, seemed fine with cabinets. Anyway the peavey has a balanced output that is the signal that goes into my firewire processor as the Right channel. The Left channel in my recording mix comes from the balanced output from the Gnx4.

I do have some decent condensor microphones but with only the traynor producing a little muddy tone it seemed best to record with balanced outs.

The Setting in the gnx4 is a slightly modified Eric Johnson patch.

I have been thinking about using the amps for the sound and using the pedal board for effects but wasnt sure about the gain? any thouights?
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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 16 2013, 07:50 AM
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QUOTE (Jim Seekford @ Aug 15 2013, 04:37 PM) *
I have been thinking about using the amps for the sound and using the pedal board for effects but wasnt sure about the gain? any thouights?



That is exactly what I wanted to suggest, mate! The gain should be obtained from the amp and booster - try that and let me know how it feels. it should definitely feel more organic you know and dynamic responsive smile.gif


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Jim S.
post Aug 16 2013, 11:41 PM
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Thanks cosmin I'm gonna experiment tonight. Just so I'm clear. Guitar to screamer into amp. From amp: pre amp to gnx4 back in?

Also is there any danger of running an amp with no speaker attached?

I may be able to get 1 12" cellestion in a songle peavey cab then mic it

Ill do some experiments tonight. Thanks!
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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 17 2013, 07:57 AM
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QUOTE (Jim Seekford @ Aug 16 2013, 10:41 PM) *
Thanks cosmin I'm gonna experiment tonight. Just so I'm clear. Guitar to screamer into amp. From amp: pre amp to gnx4 back in?

Also is there any danger of running an amp with no speaker attached?

I may be able to get 1 12" cellestion in a songle peavey cab then mic it

Ill do some experiments tonight. Thanks!


Hey buddy - yes that's the thing smile.gif Now, about not connecting the amp to a cab... here's what I found - I wouldn't do it. But let's see what the other guys have to say about this smile.gif

Running an amp with tube finals is a huge NO NO without a cab. Without a load, voltages on the secondary of the output transformer can get so high they can arc and damage the transformer.

However, your amp has a solid state final and as long as you have head phones plugged in you are OK. Even without head phones plugged in it would probably be OK as most modern amps have open circuit protection built into the design. I would just make sure you run it with the head phones plugged in and not any louder than necessary.


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Jim S.
post Aug 17 2013, 08:53 AM
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https://www.dropbox.com/s/3iyeqq4almrkzt9/tone%20test.mp3

Ok so here is a link to a little quick rhythm and lead section I made to show the clean rhythm and with the tube screamer.

Wow it makes a huge difference before the amp, it's ridiculous how much it affects it before the amp if the pedal board effects are in the loop.

Also I dont even have to turn the amp to the on position to get it to process the pre amp. The pre amp goes into a sonic maximizer then into the pedal board. From there the signal goes into my fire wire unit via 2 xlr cables. Let me know if you think the tone has changed at all. Thanks cosmin, you have been a huge help
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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 17 2013, 01:24 PM
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Hey mate biggrin.gif Glad to know I could help out - it sounds much better indeed. Is it more difficult to control when playing?


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Jim S.
post Aug 17 2013, 02:28 PM
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Yeah it did seem tougher. It was 4am too so I don't know. Before any effects the dry guitar was hard to play. It was like my brain wouldn't accept it or something. Is that common?
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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 18 2013, 08:09 AM
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QUOTE (Jim Seekford @ Aug 17 2013, 01:28 PM) *
Yeah it did seem tougher. It was 4am too so I don't know. Before any effects the dry guitar was hard to play. It was like my brain wouldn't accept it or something. Is that common?


Usually, the tube amp responds as your hand is playing - you must get acquainted to this idea and start controlling it. I always felt it a bit tougher in the beginning of my tube amp/preamp playing days. I was a Boss GT guy and every tone in those boxes sounded like butter, in comparison to any tube amp - by this I mean that playing felt effortless, but in the same time, it was linear smile.gif When I started using tube amps/preamps, things changed - I felt it was a bit difficult to play sometimes, but the tone was way better.

An experienced person, can sort out amazing tones out of a GT or AxeFX for instance, but it's simply a matter of taste here smile.gif In my opinion, nothing compares to a tube amp.


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Jim S.
post Aug 18 2013, 04:35 PM
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Cosmin I have a question. So I like basically 2 types of guitar sounds. Clean as in the sound your electric guitar makes not plugged in but amplified with a little reverb. My new setup does just that horray! The second voice I like is a high gain/distortion similar to the one in the video.

My new setup does not even come close to the gain even with the tube screamer maxed out with does not sound good. So in my effects loop if I want that sound I have to add a big muff style stompbox. My question is: Is this setting with the stompbox in the effects loop still a cheesy sound like in my Andy timmons video or is it ok because the amp gets first whack at my guitar?



I should record something as an example. I will asap
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Jim S.
post Aug 18 2013, 05:06 PM
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https://www.dropbox.com/s/6p1txgf0ovisuoj/ton2.mp3

Please excuse timing ect.. just a test.

The first example is clean no tube screamer, second with tube screamer. I feel they sound great but thats as high gain before.....

Third is with a big muff into effects loop. blah

Fourth is full out pedal board into effects loop, very similar to the video



the last one is super blah
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Cosmin Lupu
post Aug 19 2013, 08:29 AM
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Hey mate - I think the first two sound very good - the third one - are you playing with the neck pickup? I would use that one with the bridge pickup I think - it's not that bad. The 4th one - I don't think that one is ok - it sounds artificial and with too many highs.

You should go for the first 3 wink.gif Now, your basic tone should be pumped by your amp gain and Tube screamer - that's the only gain you should need. Natural gain does not sound so mean and angry on every amp - that's a personal characteristic of each amp, you know and you can't expect all of them to provide high gain smile.gif

Read a bit about the amp and see what category it falls in - you will most probably find out some tricks and there's one more thing - your hands - the more you play the angrier, sadder, happier or any other feeling you wish, you will sound like smile.gif I hope I am making sense here - am I? biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Cosmin Lupu: Aug 19 2013, 08:29 AM


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