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> Cool Capasitor Trick
Mertay
post Aug 25 2013, 08:04 PM
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Hey guys, sorry I've been away for a while. Dealing with 1-2 of my cats which are sick and its also the busy time of the year to accept new students etc.

On the limited time I had, I went to my luthier to try different capasitors and connections. One think that blew me away was the 0.33 cap. on the volume pot that was connected to my ibanez and I wanted to share this experience as no info is avalible on the internet.

I first though it was connected for treble bleed but the cap value was too high (usually its 0.01). We disconnected it (+the tone cap.) to see what happened. I went home and played the guitar for a few days.

I noticed I stated adding compressors to my chains smile.gif the sound was more open as expected but the guitar definitely felt different. So I got it connected back yesterday and got sure of what its doing;

the ceramic 0.33 cap. on volume pot tames the highs gentler than the tone pot (tamed but still harmonicly rich almost like a hollowbody guitar), lessens around 2 khz and compresses the sound smile.gif

only possible down side is some may consider the sound getting muddy instead of full but this can also be resolved by A-using a different value cap (not sure yet though) and B-using a 0.47 or 0.22 cap between the hotwire of the pickup and switch (this is also good if you like using powerchords on neck pickup, cleans might lose some depth though).

This is a great mod. for lead players and people who can't do without compressor pedals, the fretboard feels and responds very sensitive excellent for shred smile.gif

Together with tonepot connected though it might lose too much highs even if the tonepot isn't turned, this highly depends on the pickup. I decided to connect the tonepot to the bridge pickup only but not neck pickup so I can still get nice bluesy sound when the swith is in the middle wink.gif

PS; Connecting/disconnecting capasitors is very easy and harmless though its even easier if alligator clips are used so you won't lose time soldering wink.gif If you aren't familiar with soldering use a good luthier, this is also good so I'll get a good second opinion you can trust.


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Bogdan Radovic
post Aug 30 2013, 09:07 AM
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Thanks a lot for sharing this info!
This also sounds like an easy mod if no soldering is needed.

Having more open sounding and sensitive instrument sounds very interesting as an option.

Do you maybe have some audio clips of the modded guitar?


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Darius Wave
post Aug 30 2013, 12:20 PM
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Thanks for sharing Your observations Mertay. I did many tests with treble bleed circuits but ended with making it switchable because found it same good as bad in some particular situation. The thing You mentioned...Tone looses the bass while it keeps the treble. Still haven't found a good solution to make it work since very first position while rolling down the volume and yet no making the "wah wah treble boost" effect at very low positions of that knob. I even made and external testing panel with tons of capacitors and resistors, with a seriel and parallel combinations...not satisfied yet....

but You also write about some compression feel witch I hadn't expirienced...
I would rather compare my observations to treble booster that makes Your guitar have even more attack and feels different while rolling down the knob...

1. I like when the tone gets warmer when I play solos and use the volume knob without treble bleed circuit
2. I like how it sound on the clean tone with wah wah pedal - volume rolled down a bit...wider sweep response when there is NO treble bleed
3. I love the treble bleed when I play crunchy muted riffs and the map has some more gain added for some "long sustain" moments and the rolling down the volume gives exactly what I want - less bass, more attack, less mudd under the attack


Thos are my thoughts after similar effects.

I also found that if You choose one capacitor it makes different effect on different amps so it's hard to echange "best values reference point" with others...




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sammetal92
post Aug 30 2013, 03:00 PM
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I think I can give this a shot, but I don't have a tone knob, just a volume ohmy.gif Guess I'll go for my other guitars


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Darius Wave
post Aug 30 2013, 06:45 PM
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Nope...the idea is about the capacitor on the vol pot smile.gif


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Mertay
post Aug 30 2013, 07:02 PM
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QUOTE (Bogdan Radovic @ Aug 30 2013, 08:07 AM) *
Thanks a lot for sharing this info!
This also sounds like an easy mod if no soldering is needed.

Having more open sounding and sensitive instrument sounds very interesting as an option.

Do you maybe have some audio clips of the modded guitar?


Hey bogdan smile.gif

I guess it can be done with alligator clips; shorter ones but like these;

http://i00.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/4728512...jpg_250x250.jpg

These are also good for trying different capacitors, but later on soldering is the healthy option.

My luthier did the soldering but it took him like 3 minutes to open, solder and give me the guitar back smile.gif best is to go with alligator clips first and try some cap.s, it might take a few days to be sure what you like best.

I have a blog I write stuff like these but in Turkish, as soon as I write and upload sound there I'll give a link explaining properly the sounds.

P.S.; since this is a passive mode, expect the output on the guitar to drop but not much. I didn't adjust any input gain after the mod cause its just a db or 2.

This post has been edited by Mertay: Aug 30 2013, 07:36 PM


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Mertay
post Aug 30 2013, 07:29 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Aug 30 2013, 11:20 AM) *
Thanks for sharing Your observations Mertay. I did many tests with treble bleed circuits but ended with making it switchable because found it same good as bad in some particular situation. The thing You mentioned...Tone looses the bass while it keeps the treble. Still haven't found a good solution to make it work since very first position while rolling down the volume and yet no making the "wah wah treble boost" effect at very low positions of that knob. I even made and external testing panel with tons of capacitors and resistors, with a seriel and parallel combinations...not satisfied yet....

but You also write about some compression feel witch I hadn't expirienced...
I would rather compare my observations to treble booster that makes Your guitar have even more attack and feels different while rolling down the knob...

1. I like when the tone gets warmer when I play solos and use the volume knob without treble bleed circuit
2. I like how it sound on the clean tone with wah wah pedal - volume rolled down a bit...wider sweep response when there is NO treble bleed
3. I love the treble bleed when I play crunchy muted riffs and the map has some more gain added for some "long sustain" moments and the rolling down the volume gives exactly what I want - less bass, more attack, less mudd under the attack


Thos are my thoughts after similar effects.

I also found that if You choose one capacitor it makes different effect on different amps so it's hard to echange "best values reference point" with others...


Hi Darius smile.gif

I found this link after I did the modes, the "ibanez" solution is shared here too;

http://rowbinet.co.uk/2011/10/02/guitar-re...ble-bleed-mods/

To be honest (aesthetically) I don't consider the approach to (proper) treble bleeding, it sounds different to me. When rolled down and turning up the monitors, the bass is decreased but the sounds get "middy/nasal" rather than bright...sort of like super dead but cleaned stainless steel strings biggrin.gif keep in mind though my neck pickup is tuned to be sounding thick (think earlyer john petrucci sound).

Pickups+equipment are also important as I can't sure what you'll experience but I'd say give it a shot with an 0.33 ceramic if you haven't yet.

Still though making it switchable is awesome, I also considered it but passed as I found the sound good enough for me. My tonal scala is very narrow, shred distortion or natural sounding arpeggio clean (to complement shred distortion) biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Mertay: Aug 30 2013, 07:30 PM


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Mertay
post Aug 30 2013, 08:01 PM
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QUOTE (sammetal92 @ Aug 30 2013, 02:00 PM) *
I think I can give this a shot, but I don't have a tone knob, just a volume ohmy.gif Guess I'll go for my other guitars


I couldn't remember the pickups you had, if passive its ok but if EMG's I'm not sure smile.gif


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Darius Wave
post Aug 30 2013, 10:17 PM
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If You mean 0,33 nF then it's very close to the value of my choice... smile.gif Tried with different guitars and pickups...no resistor


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Mertay
post Aug 31 2013, 12:44 AM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Aug 30 2013, 09:17 PM) *
If You mean 0,33 nF then it's very close to the value of my choice... smile.gif Tried with different guitars and pickups...no resistor


lol I'm not good with the value names biggrin.gif but I guess 330pf is the same thing tongue.gif


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Darius Wave
post Aug 31 2013, 03:23 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Aug 30 2013, 11:44 PM) *
lol I'm not good with the value names biggrin.gif but I guess 330pf is the same thing tongue.gif



exaclt...sometimes I get confused with the "naming" but indeed it's about 330 pF smile.gif


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Mertay
post Sep 1 2013, 02:03 AM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Aug 31 2013, 02:23 PM) *
exaclt...sometimes I get confused with the "naming" but indeed it's about 330 pF smile.gif


One last thing as I wondered, what pickups do you use?

I ask cause for instance I use modified dimarzio airnorton and tonezone and 1 coil of both is ridiculously smooth at highs, the others (screw poles) have a very extended highs or a strong peak at cut-off frequency.

Like if I give the power on tonezone (moving magnet/half air etc.) to the screw pole, I get that wahwah sort of sound.

But this can also happen in the neck with the norton if I extend the scale of guitar by locking the trem. too low (leaned to the body) compared to what it should be.

It's certainly a frequency balancing thing but with all the caps, pot and pickups its not easy to balance a guitar...specially if experienced smile.gif

This post has been edited by Mertay: Sep 1 2013, 02:05 AM


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