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Cosmin Lupu
post Oct 3 2013, 10:21 AM
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QUOTE (verciazghra @ Oct 3 2013, 01:24 AM) *
Yup, that's why I don't bother with it. When I get good enough to start putting out music I'm gonna have several songs ready to be released periodically as well as many videos produced and at least one ready cd available for "pay what you like all the money goes to charity". By then, I'll probably hire someone to do the social networking thing for me, the shameless self-promotion thing. I guess everyone is different tho and have different goals. For me it comes down to that, what is my goal... My goal is to share music and communicate with others through it. It doesn't have to be perfect, and it SHOULDN'T be a product. So I shamelessly write whatever I want and if two people like it out of hundreds who listen, that's awesome. If nobody likes it, I'm fine with that too. smile.gif


Vince - that's a good mindset, but with self promotion you can offer more people the possibility of listening to your music smile.gif That's what drives me in that direction.


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Taka Perry
post Oct 3 2013, 11:02 AM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Oct 3 2013, 07:21 PM) *
Vince - that's a good mindset, but with self promotion you can offer more people the possibility of listening to your music smile.gif That's what drives me in that direction.


Yes, and if you still don't like it, you can build your own website which you have total control over. Imagine if Facebook announced tomorrow that all Facebook pages would now cost $30/month. Would people who rely on Facebook as their main outlet pay for this? Probably smile.gif I think your own website is where you should centralize yourself on the internet. smile.gif


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klasaine
post Oct 3 2013, 03:57 PM
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QUOTE (Taka Perry @ Oct 3 2013, 03:02 AM) *
your own website is where you should centralize yourself on the internet. smile.gif


And this is the conundrum/endeavor. How do you get there?

This post has been edited by klasaine: Oct 3 2013, 03:58 PM


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Cosmin Lupu
post Oct 4 2013, 08:59 AM
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Well, a good start is t have it in your signature on forums and to make posts including your website on your facebook page or other social media related pages whenever you can. I will write more on the subject, when my website is up smile.gif


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Slavenko Erazer
post Oct 4 2013, 09:19 AM
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QUOTE (Taka Perry @ Oct 2 2013, 10:43 AM) *
I wish it was as simple as you practice your instrument, get good at it. Write music, put out a CD, and then people who like it can get it. It can be so exhausting managing multiple social profiles and keeping yourself 'up to date' on the internet. mellow.gif


But if u ARE A MUSICIAN, than it's NOT YOUR JOB to promote and do marketing yourself... that's what managers do..and it seems that today nobody wants to pay educated and experienced guy to do the job ..and if everybody would do his job nowadays (like in ancient times) everybody should be happy with final result.

This post has been edited by Slavenko Erazer: Oct 4 2013, 09:21 AM
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Darius Wave
post Oct 4 2013, 11:25 AM
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That would be awesome Slav but in present days unfortunately we have to fight for our market by ourself. That's sad but if You try to look at it from a regular trading rules view it makes sense. Manager is someone who makes money by promoting band, doing the logistic and gig organizing job ...now...listeners are our customers. It's easy to say "our manager sucks" but being in his shoes try to imagine how hard is now to make jobs for bands that are not something that's selling well in comparison of needs of most people. There are tons of bands. Most of them claiming for exactly the same issues but no matter how good they are, there have to be consumtion need for what they do...and this can be threated same as any other product on the market. When You have a company and a product doesn't sell, You just don't order it any more an make a sale of what's left in the warehouse. It's very rough comparison but this is the truth. We cannot make people like what we do...at least not an amount that could fill whole Wembley wink.gif

So If I would take some time to imagine my work for band with no speciall perspectives for commercial success than what kind of cash compensation for my job could I expect?

Of course there are people who just love what they do - sort of non-profit "friendly ghosts". but How many of those there could be?

Another thing...I wonder If You ever observed this but...when we have some outstanding playing that luckly fits people current interests (I don't mean pop music) then the band usually have 1 per 10 post about their work that we see on facebook. Other 9 activities are fans, people who want to share and find a way to reach theri work anyway. For example...people like Guthrie Govan. He doesn't have to post antyhing on facebook by himself and he would be present there at least 1 per 20 posts I see everyday because of people who admire his work. Now...that's the true success.

Sometimes I feel like band having more band activity on FB than fans activity is like a human i coma connected to respirator. You keep something alive because You hope it's gona stand up one day...but You're not sure when this could come or would it even come at all.


I spend hours, days, months or even years on observations and thoughts about how all this mechanism works...and that's sad but this is how I see it. So in my subjective opinion it's good to keep doing Your job with hope that it's gonna jump in someday but at the same time keep full concious about what You're doing at how it relates to what sells best at the global market.


I do not refer to "show-buisness" rules that seems to be not even a bit related to what I just wrote.

Simple example - Guns'n'Roses gig in Poland. We have at least a few bands that fit this style and are at worldwide fame + playing level. But...who plays the support before GNR? Some pop band...because their manager had some favour to request from from people who organized GNR gig. That has nothing to do with playing level and needs of listeners.

This post has been edited by Darius Wave: Oct 4 2013, 11:25 AM


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Taka Perry
post Oct 4 2013, 12:39 PM
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QUOTE (Slavenko Erazer @ Oct 4 2013, 06:19 PM) *
But if u ARE A MUSICIAN, than it's NOT YOUR JOB to promote and do marketing yourself... that's what managers do..and it seems that today nobody wants to pay educated and experienced guy to do the job ..and if everybody would do his job nowadays (like in ancient times) everybody should be happy with final result.


Well, yes in one way. Hiring a manager is probably out of most people's budget, including myself. I would prefer to dedicate about 20 minutes a day to social media, and spend that money on a new guitar/amp/pedal smile.gif Plus, it can be a lot of fun talking and meeting people through music through the internet. I know I've made a lot of connections through Twitter in particular smile.gif


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klasaine
post Oct 4 2013, 04:38 PM
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QUOTE (Slavenko Erazer @ Oct 4 2013, 01:19 AM) *
But if u ARE A MUSICIAN, than it's NOT YOUR JOB to promote and do marketing yourself... that's what managers do..and it seems that today nobody wants to pay educated and experienced guy to do the job ..and if everybody would do his job nowadays (like in ancient times) everybody should be happy with final result.


In the beginning you have to do it yourself. Everybody who's anybody started that way. It's always been that way - it always will be that way.
Even the highest paid, most popular musicians (performers) at the height of the opulence of the industry (70s thru early 90s) were their own best promoters. Think about Jimmy Page or Van Halen or Bono or Sting or Elvis or even Mozart. Those guys are still hawking their own wares so to speak. OK so not Elvis and Mozart happy.gif

This post has been edited by klasaine: Oct 4 2013, 04:43 PM


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verciazghra
post Oct 5 2013, 08:40 AM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Oct 4 2013, 10:25 AM) *
Sometimes I feel like band having more band activity on FB than fans activity is like a human i coma connected to respirator. You keep something alive because You hope it's gona stand up one day...but You're not sure when this could come or would it even come at all.

Wow, well said my friend.


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Slavenko Erazer
post Oct 5 2013, 09:32 AM
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QUOTE (verciazghra @ Oct 5 2013, 09:40 AM) *
Wow, well said my friend.


Din't you know that He's also known as the famous polish philosopher, Darius Waveuss !
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Taka Perry
post Oct 5 2013, 09:33 AM
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I think every band making a Facebook page is helping Facebook towards worldwide domination, which we don't want. The truth that people need to see, is that every single person's Facebook page is under the mercy of Facebook, and whatever Facebook wants to do to it, they can.

QUOTE (verciazghra @ Oct 5 2013, 05:40 PM) *
Wow, well said my friend.


I agree. Great way of describing the feeling smile.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Oct 5 2013, 11:50 AM
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As long as you sue it as a TOOL, things are ok - the difficult part is moving on all battlefields. The live vs online activity has to be in some sort of balance. For instance, with Days of Confusion, I don't post that much stuff on Facebook, but I use it to promote our live appearances, releases and all that. That's how I see it - use it for what it is and nothing more wink.gif


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Todd Simpson
post Oct 9 2013, 04:00 AM
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The good news is, if you find Facebook/Twitter, and all of that just offensive and vile (like Verc seems to) just skip it entirely. There are bands that do ZERO social media and just bash it during live shows and come of as "Anti" which can work to an advantage as well smile.gif But there's that word again, "Advantage", implying "competition". Sadly, music that is made for the ears of anyone other than the person/persons creating it is tied and bound to throbbing mass of competition for ears/eyes that has always/will always exist. But again, one could always simply ignore all of that and hope that ears simply find their way to one's music smile.gif It does happen now and again smile.gif

Todd




QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Oct 5 2013, 06:50 AM) *
As long as you sue it as a TOOL, things are ok - the difficult part is moving on all battlefields. The live vs online activity has to be in some sort of balance. For instance, with Days of Confusion, I don't post that much stuff on Facebook, but I use it to promote our live appearances, releases and all that. That's how I see it - use it for what it is and nothing more wink.gif



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Cosmin Lupu
post Oct 9 2013, 08:37 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Oct 9 2013, 03:00 AM) *
The good news is, if you find Facebook/Twitter, and all of that just offensive and vile (like Verc seems to) just skip it entirely. There are bands that do ZERO social media and just bash it during live shows and come of as "Anti" which can work to an advantage as well smile.gif But there's that word again, "Advantage", implying "competition". Sadly, music that is made for the ears of anyone other than the person/persons creating it is tied and bound to throbbing mass of competition for ears/eyes that has always/will always exist. But again, one could always simply ignore all of that and hope that ears simply find their way to one's music smile.gif It does happen now and again smile.gif

Todd


Aye, you may be right Todd - but in my opinion, you start with a big disadvantage as the world goes around on the internet nowadays. It is free, it was world wide reach and it offers a lot of tools that ease your journey of getting out there. What you put out there, how you put it and how you use the tools - that's the whole catch. You don't need to spend countless hours on social media or get into conflicts with people that waste their time on bashing you - that's where the art is - spend the time as it should be spent, profit on the opportunities and see to your music as much as you can wink.gif


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Todd Simpson
post Oct 10 2013, 03:01 AM
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BINGO!!! You naild it there smile.gif It doesn't have to suck up your life, it doesn't have to rule your time. If you balance it properly it can be actually enjoyable and beneficial in many ways in terms of sharing your music and your "brand" with the world. I know that word "brand" is mildly offensive to some folks who would rather use a term like "Pieces of My Soul" or something smile.gif But in the end, it's just shorthand for everything you are and produce.

Media revolves around the internet, let's just be honest. So sadly it's on the artist to promote themselves until such time as they are "Financially Viable" (I know offensive terms again) to be able to pay other people to do it for them. There is perhaps a bit of Naive folly that exists near the start. Like when you fall in love. The longer you stay anywhere near music biz type stuff, the more it becomes like an old Married Couple. Very pragmatic smile.gif

Todd


QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Oct 9 2013, 03:37 AM) *
Aye, you may be right Todd - but in my opinion, you start with a big disadvantage as the world goes around on the internet nowadays. It is free, it was world wide reach and it offers a lot of tools that ease your journey of getting out there. What you put out there, how you put it and how you use the tools - that's the whole catch. You don't need to spend countless hours on social media or get into conflicts with people that waste their time on bashing you - that's where the art is - spend the time as it should be spent, profit on the opportunities and see to your music as much as you can wink.gif



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Taka Perry
post Oct 10 2013, 03:15 AM
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Very true. We all have to accept that the internet is a very useful tool for musicians. I've found that if you have a clear objective before you log on to Facebook it can save time. For example,

  1. Respond to comments people have made
  2. Update my status about a latest gig etc.
  3. Log out


The last one is important, because you can spend time endlessly checking for notifications that aren't there laugh.gif

But, the question is, how many services do we have to be on? If you Google my name, there's a lot of different services I'm on, and I don't know how many of those I actually get anything out of. I want to clear up the 'clutter' and have a more focused web presence.


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verciazghra
post Oct 10 2013, 03:17 AM
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That's pretty much what I do. Altho I don't see it as a competition against anyone else or for someone elses benefit. I couldn't care less what the throbbing mass thinks about my music, only those who actually have emphatic sensibility enough to understand that music is an individual form of personal expression, which may or may not resonate with anyone. I want to communicate with individuals, not a throbbing mass and that's what I'll do!

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Oct 9 2013, 03:00 AM) *
The good news is, if you find Facebook/Twitter, and all of that just offensive and vile (like Verc seems to) just skip it entirely. There are bands that do ZERO social media and just bash it during live shows and come of as "Anti" which can work to an advantage as well smile.gif But there's that word again, "Advantage", implying "competition". Sadly, music that is made for the ears of anyone other than the person/persons creating it is tied and bound to throbbing mass of competition for ears/eyes that has always/will always exist. But again, one could always simply ignore all of that and hope that ears simply find their way to one's music smile.gif It does happen now and again smile.gif

Todd



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"To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time." -Leonard Bernstein

"The only love affair I have ever had was with music." -Maurice Ravel

"There's no such place as dumb question." -Dose One
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Slavenko Erazer
post Oct 10 2013, 08:55 AM
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QUOTE (verciazghra @ Oct 10 2013, 04:17 AM) *
That's pretty much what I do. Altho I don't see it as a competition against anyone else or for someone elses benefit. I couldn't care less what the throbbing mass thinks about my music, only those who actually have emphatic sensibility enough to understand that music is an individual form of personal expression, which may or may not resonate with anyone. I want to communicate with individuals, not a throbbing mass and that's what I'll do!



Difference is in the point what you want to GAIN with music.
But u can't earn money with individuals?
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Cosmin Lupu
post Oct 10 2013, 08:59 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Oct 10 2013, 02:01 AM) *
BINGO!!! You naild it there smile.gif It doesn't have to suck up your life, it doesn't have to rule your time. If you balance it properly it can be actually enjoyable and beneficial in many ways in terms of sharing your music and your "brand" with the world. I know that word "brand" is mildly offensive to some folks who would rather use a term like "Pieces of My Soul" or something smile.gif But in the end, it's just shorthand for everything you are and produce.

Media revolves around the internet, let's just be honest. So sadly it's on the artist to promote themselves until such time as they are "Financially Viable" (I know offensive terms again) to be able to pay other people to do it for them. There is perhaps a bit of Naive folly that exists near the start. Like when you fall in love. The longer you stay anywhere near music biz type stuff, the more it becomes like an old Married Couple. Very pragmatic smile.gif

Todd


Hehe biggrin.gif Todd - old married couple sounds a bit scary for me at this point, but, I like to see myself as a realistic optimist smile.gif I believe in my dreams, but I do what's necessary to achieve them. Sticking to always being a naive, bohemian person can be dangerous for both you and your art, in many occasions. Keep the inner child busy with the creation and bring the warrior upfront to fight the fights.

This post has been edited by Cosmin Lupu: Oct 10 2013, 09:00 AM


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verciazghra
post Oct 14 2013, 03:06 AM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Oct 10 2013, 07:59 AM) *
Hehe biggrin.gif Todd - old married couple sounds a bit scary for me at this point, but, I like to see myself as a realistic optimist smile.gif I believe in my dreams, but I do what's necessary to achieve them. Sticking to always being a naive, bohemian person can be dangerous for both you and your art, in many occasions. Keep the inner child busy with the creation and bring the warrior upfront to fight the fights.

I like being a naive bohemian person. smile.gif


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"To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time." -Leonard Bernstein

"The only love affair I have ever had was with music." -Maurice Ravel

"There's no such place as dumb question." -Dose One
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