3 Pages V   1 2 3 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Hand Hurts Need To Stop Playing
Ken Nielsen
post Sep 16 2013, 07:56 AM
Post #1


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 36
Joined: 10-June 12
From: Portland Oregon
Member No.: 16.038



I've had bad hand pain over the past six months, so bad that I quit playing after it simply hurt too much to play. It all started when I practiced every day for half an hour, not too much I thought, but the constant use of hand and fingers to find chords that stretched my hands in new and unusual (not normal for me) ways took its toll on my tendons and muscles, or at least it feels like that is what happened. Now, after stopping playing for 3 months my hand feels better but the 4th finger still hurts to play. the rest of the hand is doing much better, I'm learning to just cool it and not play through pain.

I'm posting the video of my hand position while playing so maybe someone here who is an expert can tell me if my position is wrong. Anything you can add or see that is not right could help me discover how to get back to playing the guitar daily again.

I do think I need to stop playing for another month or two so my 4th finger can come back out of pain. The rest really does help. I have tried ice packs but rest does the best to heal the problem.

Thanks for input,

Ken

Here's the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFSfYEkoR3c

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dieterle
post Sep 16 2013, 08:44 AM
Post #2


Learning Apprentice Player
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1.324
Joined: 21-March 12
Member No.: 15.492



Hello Ken !

I am sorry to hear about your hand pain !

I am not an Expert on guitar technic so i am sure soon there will be some real use full answers from our Mentors here cool.gif

For your hand pain i am sure myself it would be better to let those fingers and your hand rest some more weeks- it looks like

Tendinitis .

Have ya been at doctor yet ?


So the next week just do some right hand guitar exercises rhythm / stroke Stuff !?


All the Best for You , i am sure soon will be everything OK !

Dieter
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Taka Perry
post Sep 16 2013, 10:18 AM
Post #3


Learning Rock Star
*

Group: Members
Posts: 642
Joined: 16-July 13
From: Australia
Member No.: 18.500



Yes, I've never had this problem myself, but it would suck to not be able to play ohmy.gif

Once you recover, it may be a good idea to try some gentle stretches in my fingers before playing. I gently pull back each finger for about 20 secs. I think it allows the muscles and tendons to loosen up smile.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Nava
post Sep 16 2013, 11:04 AM
Post #4


Learning Tone Seeker
*

Group: Members
Posts: 309
Joined: 10-January 11
From: Sweden
Member No.: 12.007



So sorry to hear that!
Not be able to play the guitar and then feel the frustration of waiting...thats bad sad.gif
But u are doing the best. To rest and let the hand say when its ready to go again. I'm sure u will be there soon again biggrin.gif

I have had similar problems for the past years now and it goes up and down. But mine is permanent..Worn (?) out wrists after to heavy work I guess.
Some chords and high notes on the strings near mics especially thicker strings are almost impossible to play due to the pain.
But overall its ok smile.gif

Well, hope you come back very soon!


--------------------
If it sounds good, it IS good! And if you think its good then there is gonna be someone else in the world that thinks its good:)Wise words from former instructor Marcus Lavendell.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Darius Wave
post Sep 16 2013, 12:30 PM
Post #5


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 5.407
Joined: 29-November 12
From: Poland
Member No.: 17.069



Very bad news sad.gif We had some similar issues here, with other users. Usually best idea is to visit doctor. This might be something more than overpractice sad.gif As from what I see at the vid there is nothing clearly wrong with You position. Maybe try to use strap and a hang Your guitar closer to the neck so You would not have to reach some "hurting" shapes with neck being too low.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bogdan Radovic
post Sep 16 2013, 01:50 PM
Post #6


Bass & Beginner Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.612
Joined: 30-November 07
From: Belgrade, Serbia
Member No.: 3.410



Hi Ken - so sorry to hear about these troubles. You should be very careful with your playing, not to cause any more damage.

I have studied your video and only thing that jumps out at me is your fretting hand thumb. It seems to be hanging over the neck, especially when playing chords. Now, I know some people can play like that without a problem but I just tried to fret those chords using that hand position and it has put a lot of stress on my fretting hand, especially when moving the little finger to fret extensions which involve stretching.

Have you tried the "classical guitar" playing position where your fretting hand thumb is supporting the other fingers from the opposite side of the neck (it usually stays around the middle of the neck)? In this position you do need to push your whole hand a bit to form a more perpendicular angle towards strings.

Maybe worth testing a fretting hand position like this one : https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/The_Origin_of_Fandangos/

Of course, this issue might not be related strictly to hand positioning and posture but it should be worth experimenting with ways to remove any stress on the hands when playing (to extent possible). When you feel pain, stop and do some theory or strictly right hand exercises while resting the fretting hand to avoid making things worse.


--------------------
For GMC support please email support (at) guitarmasterclass.net
Check out my lessons and my instructor board.
Check out my beginner guitar lessons course! ; Take a bass course now!
My solo and band songs : Keep Going On, Night Vibe, Kad Te Vidim, Susret, Plava Silueta
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ben Higgins
post Sep 16 2013, 03:30 PM
Post #7


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 13.792
Joined: 11-March 10
From: England
Member No.: 9.820



Hi Ken, that's a shame to hear about your hand issues. I remember reading something from Troy Stetina, a renowned teacher, where he talked about a tendon injury he sustained to his (I think) little finger because he was practising a classical piece of music which required a lot of stretchy chords. It put him out of action for a fair amount of time.. I found the link here. It may or may not be useful but if anything it should show that even someone like him had to leave the guitar alone for a while

http://www.stetina.com/popstips/12_avoidproblems2.html

One thing I learned was that people often think that tendons and ligaments stretch. They don't stretch.. muscles do but not the other guys. So anything that does 'stretch' a tendon is an injury to the tissue. So I wouldn't be surprised that it takes a long time to heal itself again.

Your hand position in general looks fine to me but I notice you tend to use you fingers in isolation when performing bends. Although it can be done, it requires you to use a heck of a load more power in your fingers then if you combined your 'dormant' fingers together and rested them on the neck to add strength and 'bolster' the bend.

My following vid may be about vibrato but I talk about this approach of using your idle fingers to add strength to bending and vibrato.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlY0-YAFta4

I do wonder whether using your little finger to try and bend a string had made your tendon go twang !? It's a lot of string tension to overcome by one little finger, which is often seen as the weakest finger.

This post has been edited by Ben Higgins: Sep 16 2013, 03:31 PM


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ken Nielsen
post Sep 16 2013, 04:39 PM
Post #8


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 36
Joined: 10-June 12
From: Portland Oregon
Member No.: 16.038



Hey guys, I'm really getting some good insight and help here. I'll look into each possibility, especially seeing my doctor as, as you all know, it is no fun to have to stop playing. It's my guess that it is some type of tendonitis in combination with over stretching and using the hand improperly with bends. I'm excited about playing the guitar and it has been easy to 'push' and not 'think' about the fact that there is work being done and it is a good idea to preserve the capability of the hand and not think that nothing will ever go wrong.

I agree that rest is the main course of action for the next few months. It is so hard to not pick up the guitar and try playing again, but that just aggravates the problem, as it did even for making this short video. I met a renowned baroque violinist who lost his ability to play entirely and in his early recordings he played the violin like it was on fire. What a loss to the passion he brought to his performances.

I'll comb through these responses in the days ahead as I want to try all of the ideas. One thing that I can do that involves playing is strumming, rhythm, which is always good using the right hand, and theory, both which are profitable to pursue.

Thanks to each and all here,

Ken
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Gabriel Leopardi
post Sep 16 2013, 04:46 PM
Post #9


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 29.966
Joined: 3-March 07
From: Argentina
Member No.: 1.289



Hi mat, I'm sorry to hear about this. I would ad to the other instructor's comments that it's very important to warm up and do some stretches correctly before you start your playing routine. This will also make you feel more relaxed while you practice, which is something very important to take care of your hands an fingers.

Please check this video where you will find Petrucci explaining how to Stretch:




--------------------
My lessons

Do you need a Guitar Plan?
Join Gab's Army

Check my band:Cirse
Check my soundcloud:Soundcloud

Please subscribe to my:Youtube Channel
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ken Nielsen
post Sep 16 2013, 05:50 PM
Post #10


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 36
Joined: 10-June 12
From: Portland Oregon
Member No.: 16.038



Thank You for the 'warming up' exercise video also. All of this is good for every musician to be aware of. What we don't know CAN hurt us.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
verciazghra
post Sep 16 2013, 07:13 PM
Post #11


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 309
Joined: 10-July 13
Member No.: 18.475



QUOTE (Ken Nielsen @ Sep 16 2013, 06:56 AM) *
I've had bad hand pain over the past six months, so bad that I quit playing after it simply hurt too much to play. It all started when I practiced every day for half an hour, not too much I thought, but the constant use of hand and fingers to find chords that stretched my hands in new and unusual (not normal for me) ways took its toll on my tendons and muscles, or at least it feels like that is what happened. Now, after stopping playing for 3 months my hand feels better but the 4th finger still hurts to play. the rest of the hand is doing much better, I'm learning to just cool it and not play through pain.

I'm posting the video of my hand position while playing so maybe someone here who is an expert can tell me if my position is wrong. Anything you can add or see that is not right could help me discover how to get back to playing the guitar daily again.

I do think I need to stop playing for another month or two so my 4th finger can come back out of pain. The rest really does help. I have tried ice packs but rest does the best to heal the problem.

Thanks for input,

Ken

Here's the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFSfYEkoR3c


Hey Ken, lowering the entire hand and thus the thumb too as many have pointed out seem like the only problem with your hand posture. HOWEVER I DO NOT think that there's anything wrong with your hand posture, you seem to be quite relaxed and have a good shoulder/arm/wrist relationship going on. You might be pressing a bit too hard from what I can tell, so be aware if you're noticing that it feels like you're doing that.

The other thing that many people don't know(and if you do it's worth mentioning again): Eat vegetables, drink water. Tho many people disregard this for a long time in their playing, countless of musicians say that if they don't eat vegetables and drink plenty of water they start to develop tendonitis, and when they start eating and drinking well again it goes away...

Here's an example of a grand musician who talks about a tendonitis problem and the impact food had on him. He's not only great, he's one of the best.



--------------------
"To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time." -Leonard Bernstein

"The only love affair I have ever had was with music." -Maurice Ravel

"There's no such place as dumb question." -Dose One
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Todd Simpson
post Sep 17 2013, 03:05 AM
Post #12


GMC:er
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.407
Joined: 23-December 09
From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Member No.: 8.794



STOP PLAYING NOW


I see this sort of thing rather frequently and suffered it myself a long time ago. It might be something small but it might be Carpal Tunnel Syndrome which can ruin your playing forever. There is only one thing to do .


GET TO A DOCTOR ASAP


You may need to be referred to a specialist or a physical therapist. But either way, this is not the type of thing to muck about with. Nobody here is a Doctor, so not matter what advice you get, NONE of it will be from a someone that can provide an accurate diagnosis. So first go see a doc, then try some of the things you are likely to see in a thread like this.

1.)Stretch your hands/arms before and after playing.
2.)Never play to the point of pain
3.)Examine the ergonomics of your playing.
4.)Etc.

I had to wear braces on both arms for six months after jacking myself up like this and refusing to see a doctor sad.gif Please do take care of yourself!!


Todd

QUOTE (Ken Nielsen @ Sep 16 2013, 02:56 AM) *
I've had bad hand pain over the past six months, so bad that I quit playing after it simply hurt too much to play. It all started when I practiced every day for half an hour, not too much I thought, but the constant use of hand and fingers to find chords that stretched my hands in new and unusual (not normal for me) ways took its toll on my tendons and muscles, or at least it feels like that is what happened. Now, after stopping playing for 3 months my hand feels better but the 4th finger still hurts to play. the rest of the hand is doing much better, I'm learning to just cool it and not play through pain.

I'm posting the video of my hand position while playing so maybe someone here who is an expert can tell me if my position is wrong. Anything you can add or see that is not right could help me discover how to get back to playing the guitar daily again.

I do think I need to stop playing for another month or two so my 4th finger can come back out of pain. The rest really does help. I have tried ice packs but rest does the best to heal the problem.

Thanks for input,

Ken

Here's the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFSfYEkoR3c



--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ken Nielsen
post Sep 17 2013, 03:26 AM
Post #13


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 36
Joined: 10-June 12
From: Portland Oregon
Member No.: 16.038



Thanks Todd, This is exactly how serious this is. I am going in to see my Doctor, but I still see all of the great comments here as coming from experience also. No one here is guessing but all are speaking from actual experience. At the very least this is a completely supportive community of musicians and to me that is priceless.

Thanks, to each and every one,

Ken

This post has been edited by Ken Nielsen: Sep 17 2013, 03:28 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cosmin Lupu
post Sep 17 2013, 10:42 AM
Post #14


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 22.808
Joined: 14-June 10
From: Bucharest
Member No.: 10.636



Hey Ken!

I guess that the conclusion is pretty clear, you should see a DOC asap and after that, I want to recommend a warmup routine that works absolutely great for me:



--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Caelumamittendum
post Sep 17 2013, 12:23 PM
Post #15


Learning Rock Star
*

Group: Members
Posts: 4.687
Joined: 14-June 08
From: Copenhagen, Denmark
Member No.: 5.298



Yep, get to the doctor! And be sure to stretch and warm up on the guitar like has been suggested.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PosterBoy
post Sep 17 2013, 02:53 PM
Post #16


Learning Roadie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.525
Joined: 26-October 11
From: Galway, Ireland
Member No.: 14.225



Can't add much more than has been said.

See doctor
Warm ups and stretches

Better seated position when playing or play standing up
Thumb at the back of the neck
Fret lightly


--------------------
My SoundCloud

PosterBoy's Bootcamp with Todd



Gear
Ibanez Rg770FM
Tyler Burning Water 2K
Burny RLG90 with BK Emeralds
Fender US Tele with BK Piledrivers
Epiphone 335
Axe Fx Ultra - GCP Pro
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ken Nielsen
post Sep 17 2013, 07:58 PM
Post #17


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 36
Joined: 10-June 12
From: Portland Oregon
Member No.: 16.038



Oh boy, these are incredible responses, and great videos too. This thread would be valuable to anyone (everyone) who plays the guitar. These are things I never knew about or imagined before. I mean, guitar - you just jump in a play don't you?

Anyway, I've got the doctor's appointment set up for this coming Friday, and, as it turns out, the receptionist plays guitar too and she and I had a nice talk about how important music is and how I don't want to give it up. I'm still resting until my 4th finger is back to normal, but then going back to playing with a whole new arsenal of information, plus what the Doctor has to say to me on Friday.

Yipee,

Thanks Again Everyone,

Ken

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cosmin Lupu
post Sep 18 2013, 08:49 AM
Post #18


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 22.808
Joined: 14-June 10
From: Bucharest
Member No.: 10.636



I almost always take care of my hands before starting to play - using that video I posted smile.gif it's very effective!

Never neglect your warmup ever and let us know what the doc says on Friday, ok?


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ken Nielsen
post Sep 21 2013, 12:34 AM
Post #19


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 36
Joined: 10-June 12
From: Portland Oregon
Member No.: 16.038



QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Sep 18 2013, 07:49 AM) *
let us know what the doc says on Friday, ok?


Okay, Dr. knows best. At the conclusion of Dr. appointment, he said not going to do x-ray as history I outlined to him would probably show some injury from overuse, but as this recovers when I put down the instrument, over time (I stopped playing for 3 months at this last occurrence and now only have 4th finger pain) he referred me to a hand therapist. I have four sessions scheduled over the next month. I may have to bring my guitar in at some point to demonstrate how I am playing. This is a highly qualified specialist at a large hospital and I really have hopes that this will lead to discovery and treatment that will allow me to play without injury or pain in the future.

While the warm-up videos shown here are all good, they vary between players and each works in particular for individual players. I'm encouraged that now I will be evaluated on my individual playing and physiological make-up by a specialist.

Can't do better than that. I'll follow through with this because playing is important to me and I have high hopes of seeing this barrier fall.

Thank Guys,


Ken

This post has been edited by Ken Nielsen: Sep 21 2013, 12:36 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Blister
post Sep 21 2013, 01:53 AM
Post #20


Learning Apprentice Player
*

Group: Members
Posts: 772
Joined: 31-January 11
From: Florida
Member No.: 12.141



Glad to hear the Doc doesn't think there is serious injury.

QUOTE (Ken Nielsen @ Sep 20 2013, 06:34 PM) *
...Ok I may have to bring my guitar in at some point to demonstrate how I am playing. This is a highly qualified specialist at a large hospital and I really have hopes that this will lead to discovery and treatment that will allow me to play without injury or pain in the future...


I couldn't help but picturing bunch of Doctors pulling out their guitars at this big hospital for a medical jam session! laugh.gif

Best of luck Ken! smile.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

3 Pages V   1 2 3 >
Fast ReplyReply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 16th December 2017 - 11:49 PM