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> Modes 101, Part 1 - Introduction
kjutte
post Jul 19 2007, 12:08 AM
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Thanks Andrew, you rock bigtime!
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Andrew Cockburn
post Jul 19 2007, 12:17 AM
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QUOTE (kjutte @ Jul 18 2007, 07:08 PM) *
Thanks Andrew, you rock bigtime!

No problem, glad I could help, looking forward to any more questions you might have smile.gif


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dimeisgod
post Jul 22 2007, 03:47 PM
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andrew i have a question about playing the modes, specificly the mixolidian mode.

lets say i have a B7 chord playing. the myxolidian mode works for that chord so i play th b scale with a flat seventh. when i play that i am actually playing the E major scale or at least its notes, five sharp notes become 4 (because of the flate seventh). right? so...:
when i memorized the major shape (the 7 different boxes) i in the same time memorized the myxolidian shape? and every other mode as a matter a fact? and only the chords in the background determine wich scale im improvizing in, while im playing the same notes for a couple different scales at the time?



thanks this subject bothered me some time now...
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Andrew Cockburn
post Jul 22 2007, 04:22 PM
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QUOTE (dimeisgod @ Jul 22 2007, 10:47 AM) *
andrew i have a question about playing the modes, specificly the mixolidian mode.

lets say i have a B7 chord playing. the myxolidian mode works for that chord so i play th b scale with a flat seventh. when i play that i am actually playing the E major scale or at least its notes, five sharp notes become 4 (because of the flate seventh). right? so...:
when i memorized the major shape (the 7 different boxes) i in the same time memorized the myxolidian shape? and every other mode as a matter a fact? and only the chords in the background determine wich scale im improvizing in, while im playing the same notes for a couple different scales at the time?

thanks this subject bothered me some time now...


Yes, you are pretty much on the money here ...

We would say that B is the relative Mixolydian of E. That means:

1. B Mixo shares the same notes as E Major
2. SInce the notes are the same, the patterns will be identical

But, of critical improtance is the following - the root notes are different - sound obvious but it is the key to all of this.

If you played E major and E mixolydian they would not share the same notes because they have a common root note. However, since you shofted to B mixo, they will share the same notes, and yes you can reuse all the patterns.

When practicing scales, even relative modes like this, it is good practice to always start on the root notes. This is because amongst other things you are training your ears to the sound of the scale. When playing E major start on E and end on E. When practicing B mixo sclales, even though you are reusing the pattern, start on B and end on B. Of course when using the scales for a song you can use any notes you want, but your mind's eye needs to be awaer that the root note is B for the mixo, otherwise your perception will not be correct and you might get confused between the 2.

In fact, I prefer to introduce modes as altered scales, since all of the stuff about shared patterns ends up really confusing people until they understand the basic concepts of what a mode is - hence I wrote this lesson, which is probably the best introduction of the 2 lessons I have written. I'll probably flip them around at some stage.


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Ben N
post Oct 11 2007, 02:29 AM
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thank's andrew it realy halp smile.gif


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Andrew Cockburn
post Oct 11 2007, 03:17 AM
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Glad you liked it Ben smile.gif


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Twibeard
post Jan 3 2008, 08:20 AM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Jul 22 2007, 04:22 PM) *
When practicing scales, even relative modes like this, it is good practice to always start on the root notes. This is because amongst other things you are training your ears to the sound of the scale. When playing E major start on E and end on E. When practicing B mixo sclales, even though you are reusing the pattern, start on B and end on B. Of course when using the scales for a song you can use any notes you want, but your mind's eye needs to be awaer that the root note is B for the mixo, otherwise your perception will not be correct and you might get confused between the 2.

In fact, I prefer to introduce modes as altered scales, since all of the stuff about shared patterns ends up really confusing people until they understand the basic concepts of what a mode is - hence I wrote this lesson, which is probably the best introduction of the 2 lessons I have written. I'll probably flip them around at some stage.

I just saw the light Andrew. A big thank you Sir! biggrin.gif


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Andrew Cockburn
post Jan 3 2008, 01:32 PM
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QUOTE (Twibeard @ Jan 3 2008, 02:20 AM) *
I just saw the light Andrew. A big thank you Sir! biggrin.gif


You are very welcome smile.gif


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JWBauer
post Jan 10 2008, 10:32 PM
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Great lesson. All that mode stufff had my head spinning but you made it simple and easy to understand. Thanks! biggrin.gif


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FretDancer69
post Feb 12 2008, 05:07 AM
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i was a little dissapointed the first time I found that that modes only varied in one note. I was expecting something like huge, idk lol tongue.gif. But still, that altered note affects the entire scale i suppose.

Excellent lesson andrew, im tackling the next one after re-reading each Mode formula smile.gif

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eddiecat
post Feb 27 2008, 05:53 PM
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Hello Andrew, fantastic lesson!
Just to tell you that I think you forgot to flatten the 6th
in the Phrygian formula (intervals).
Cheers, and happy birthday!
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FretDancer69
post Feb 27 2008, 11:52 PM
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Hey Andrew, i was re-reading this again and i spotted some interesting stuff that id like someone to clear up for me smile.gif:

1st:

QUOTE
Dorian mode is a minor scale with a major 6th instead of a minor 6th. In interval terms it is:


minor 6th... since we're talking about the changes in each degree of the scale for each mode (in this case the 6th), shouldnt we say a "flattened 6th"? isnt "minor 6th" an interval? i thought that intervals were 2 notes, the distance between them, but if we are talking about one note (6th), shouldnt we say flattened instead of minor... just for conventional purposes maybe...? im not sure really, i want to know what Andrew says... tongue.gif


QUOTE
Phrygian mode is a minor scale with a flattened 2nd. In interval terms it is:

1, b2, b3, 4, 5, 6 , b7


If the Phrygian mode is a Minor Mode, shouldnt the 6th be flatted as well? Making the Phrygian mode have 4 flatted notes: 2nd, 3rd, 6th and 7th ?


QUOTE
Finally we have Locrian. Although the Locrian has a minor 3rd,


Again, same as in the Dorian example. Also, i assume that by this you mean the 2nd, since the 3rd already belongs to the natural minor scale.


Just curious about these stuff. Thanks smile.gif

This post has been edited by FretDancer69: Feb 27 2008, 11:55 PM


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Andrew Cockburn
post Feb 29 2008, 03:16 AM
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QUOTE (eddiecat @ Feb 27 2008, 11:53 AM) *
Hello Andrew, fantastic lesson!
Just to tell you that I think you forgot to flatten the 6th
in the Phrygian formula (intervals).
Cheers, and happy birthday!


Well spotted Eddie, I fixed it - thanks!


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Andrew Cockburn
post Feb 29 2008, 03:20 AM
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QUOTE (FretDancer69 @ Feb 27 2008, 05:52 PM) *
Hey Andrew, i was re-reading this again and i spotted some interesting stuff that id like someone to clear up for me smile.gif :

1st:



minor 6th... since we're talking about the changes in each degree of the scale for each mode (in this case the 6th), shouldnt we say a "flattened 6th"? isnt "minor 6th" an interval? i thought that intervals were 2 notes, the distance between them, but if we are talking about one note (6th), shouldnt we say flattened instead of minor... just for conventional purposes maybe...? im not sure really, i want to know what Andrew says... tongue.gif


Well I use the terms interchangeably - minor 6th, flat, 6th, its the same thing realy. You tend to use minor 6th for scales and flat 6th for chords but they all mean the same thing.

QUOTE (FretDancer69 @ Feb 27 2008, 05:52 PM) *
If the Phrygian mode is a Minor Mode, shouldnt the 6th be flatted as well? Making the Phrygian mode have 4 flatted notes: 2nd, 3rd, 6th and 7th ?


Yes, as Eddie spotted abovem this is a mistake and Phrygian has a b6 in it.

QUOTE (FretDancer69 @ Feb 27 2008, 05:52 PM) *
Again, same as in the Dorian example. Also, i assume that by this you mean the 2nd, since the 3rd already belongs to the natural minor scale.

Just curious about these stuff. Thanks smile.gif



Not sure what you mean about this one - the point I was making was that although Locrian does have a minor 3rd in it, it is not truly minor because it has that diminished 5th interval in it. It does also have a minor 2nd, but that isn't really important when it comes to major vs minor.


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buttmonk
post Mar 23 2008, 01:18 PM
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Thx Andrew! I am away from my guitar at the moment and just discovered ur theory section, bloody usefull!

So rgds all the different scales and modes, is there a common consensus on what "feeling(s)" each 1 is good for emoting or what types of music they are good for (of course I am sure there are certainly no hard and fast rules here)? It would be interesting to see a list of scales/modes mapped to feeling/music type. It just occurred to me that this would be good when chosing which ones you want to concentrate on learning, and there would appear to be something of this in the origin of the modes as u said...

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Andrew Cockburn
post Mar 23 2008, 03:29 PM
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Interesting question! I discussed this with various instructors once and was surprised to find that there was some agreement on the modes - I thought it would be very subjective. these are the ones I remember - lets see if others agree!

Major - Happy
Dorian - ?
Phrygian - ?
Lydian - Mystical
Mixolydian - Triumphant
Aeolian - Sad
Locrian - Foreboding


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buttmonk
post Mar 24 2008, 08:53 AM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Mar 23 2008, 04:29 PM) *
Locrian - Foreboding


That's the 1 i will be learning next then...but damn, I see this is 1 u haven't had time to put up any content for yet... oh well, just have to wait...smile.gif

Lets see if anyone is able to fill in the gaps for Dorian and Phrygian. I guess the Blues scale is pretty obvious...smile.gif

Thanks Andrew.

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FrankW
post May 18 2008, 12:34 AM
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Thanks for the modes lesson, well laid out. I've got to go get my reading glasses, and dig in...EXIST PROSPEROUSLY AND ENDURINGLY!

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Silver Stratocas...
post May 7 2009, 04:25 AM
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I'm a new member, and struggle with different modes. This lesson was pure genius. You made it simple, gave a great example for each mode, and even gave a background to the story of modes that I understand. I can't thank you enough.
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GGTopGuitarist
post Sep 7 2009, 03:48 PM
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Just spent a few minutes reading it and found it very useful biggrin.gif thanks
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