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Taka Perry
post Sep 18 2013, 11:57 AM
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I've been thinking about different live setups I can do, now that I am starting to do live performances. I was able to get a nice PA system for a really good price, and this PA system has XLR inputs, so I was thinking how can I have my guitar signal chain go to a XLR out.

My first guess would be to buy a DI box, and have that at the end of my pedalboard. I can get all the tones I need out of my multi-FX pedal, so in theory, would it work to have my DI box go into the XLR input of the PA system? Thanks. biggrin.gif


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Darius Wave
post Sep 18 2013, 02:05 PM
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QUOTE (Taka Perry @ Sep 18 2013, 10:57 AM) *
I've been thinking about different live setups I can do, now that I am starting to do live performances. I was able to get a nice PA system for a really good price, and this PA system has XLR inputs, so I was thinking how can I have my guitar signal chain go to a XLR out.

My first guess would be to buy a DI box, and have that at the end of my pedalboard. I can get all the tones I need out of my multi-FX pedal, so in theory, would it work to have my DI box go into the XLR input of the PA system? Thanks. biggrin.gif


If You consider Your multi fx cab simulations tone descent, then You could go for DI-BOX but...I would probably keep the mic in front of the amp ...if You use an amp


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Taka Perry
post Sep 18 2013, 10:55 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Sep 18 2013, 11:05 PM) *
If You consider Your multi fx cab simulations tone descent, then You could go for DI-BOX but...I would probably keep the mic in front of the amp ...if You use an amp


I would like to, but my amp is a tiny practice amp ohmy.gif It's like 3 watts biggrin.gif would it make sense to mic it up? My PA speakers on the other hand are 400w each.

The amp sims on my multi fx are decent for my style of music, which is generally low to mid gain tones. My future dream is to get something like an Axe FX biggrin.gif


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Taka Perry
post Sep 19 2013, 07:42 AM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Sep 18 2013, 11:05 PM) *
If You consider Your multi fx cab simulations tone descent, then You could go for DI-BOX but...I would probably keep the mic in front of the amp ...if You use an amp


Also, I forgot to mention, but I am running backing tracks through my pedalboard. My current chain is like this:

Multi-FX (with amp sims) --> Boss RC3 (loop & backing tracks) --> Behringer GDI21 (DI box) --> PA Speaker

The problem I'm facing now is that the audio signal clips at a fairly low level, whether I turn the volume up on the looper, the PA, or the guitar :\ This setup would be perfect if this annoying clipping issue went away.. Any help is appreciated smile.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Sep 19 2013, 08:23 AM
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There's also this particular baby, which you could consider buying as a specialized guitar DI:





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Darius Wave
post Sep 19 2013, 08:29 AM
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You should check Your P.A Mixer channel set up - usually there is a mic/line or PAD switch so - You should work on "line or pad" option because it makes the gain sensivity lower. Good when You use a device that has a hight output. Your effect could be one of them.


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Taka Perry
post Sep 19 2013, 08:40 AM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Sep 19 2013, 05:23 PM) *
There's also this particular baby, which you could consider buying as a specialized guitar DI:



Yes, I have considered that. Would it be better than using the Behringer DI that I already have, and also, would it be fine to put backing tracks through that DI, as my chain consists of backing tracks. I'll have a look at it, thank you smile.gif


QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Sep 19 2013, 05:29 PM) *
You should check Your P.A Mixer channel set up - usually there is a mic/line or PAD switch so - You should work on "line or pad" option because it makes the gain sensivity lower. Good when You use a device that has a hight output. Your effect could be one of them.


Hmmm.. I don't have a PA mixer. I mean, there are a few knobs for volume/2-band EQ on the back of the PA, but I'm going straight from the DI to the back of the PA speaker. Also, the clip light doesn't come on at the back of my PA speaker when I hear clipping.

I've also discovered that the 'clipping' (if it is clipping) doesn't occur on every backing track, only some. I'm yet to find out what causes the clip, but from what I know so far, the clipping doesn't occur with percussion at all :/ this is confusing. Thanks smile.gif

This post has been edited by Taka Perry: Sep 19 2013, 08:41 AM


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Taka Perry
post Sep 20 2013, 12:59 AM
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Anyone got any ideas? This clipping issue is killing me, I just wish things would work without having to buy more gear ohmy.gif Thank you


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Cosmin Lupu
post Sep 20 2013, 07:08 AM
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Hey Taka - in Days of Confusion, we use the Palmer as a guitar dedicated DI box, when we don't mic the cabinets. That is the way I've seen it being put to work so far - I'll ask my mate who owns it, in respect to your question and I'll write back this evening after the rehearsal - deal? smile.gif


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Darius Wave
post Sep 20 2013, 10:45 AM
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Some of the backing tracks can me mastered and some of them not. Also...some might be mastered by professional engeneers and some by a people who are still learning at this field. This is why You have so much difference in clipping. Also...make sure all tracks are in exactly the same bitrate, sampling frequency like 44,1 kHz etc...


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Taka Perry
post Sep 20 2013, 11:48 AM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Sep 20 2013, 04:08 PM) *
Hey Taka - in Days of Confusion, we use the Palmer as a guitar dedicated DI box, when we don't mic the cabinets. That is the way I've seen it being put to work so far - I'll ask my mate who owns it, in respect to your question and I'll write back this evening after the rehearsal - deal? smile.gif


Awesome, thanks so much mate smile.gif So it basically has a speaker simulation built into the DI box?

QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Sep 20 2013, 07:45 PM) *
Some of the backing tracks can me mastered and some of them not. Also...some might be mastered by professional engeneers and some by a people who are still learning at this field. This is why You have so much difference in clipping. Also...make sure all tracks are in exactly the same bitrate, sampling frequency like 44,1 kHz etc...


Yes, that would be my initial thoughts too, but the backing tracks are all done by me with the same volume, sample rate etc. I'm starting to think that it may be my DI box, as if I'm going into the PA from my laptop, there is not distortion. :\


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Sep 20 2013, 03:29 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Sep 20 2013, 03:08 AM) *
Hey Taka - in Days of Confusion, we use the Palmer as a guitar dedicated DI box, when we don't mic the cabinets. That is the way I've seen it being put to work so far - I'll ask my mate who owns it, in respect to your question and I'll write back this evening after the rehearsal - deal? smile.gif



What pedal do they use to emulate the amp?

QUOTE (Taka Perry @ Sep 19 2013, 04:40 AM) *
Hmmm.. I don't have a PA mixer. I mean, there are a few knobs for volume/2-band EQ on the back of the PA, but I'm going straight from the DI to the back of the PA speaker. Also, the clip light doesn't come on at the back of my PA speaker when I hear clipping.

I've also discovered that the 'clipping' (if it is clipping) doesn't occur on every backing track, only some. I'm yet to find out what causes the clip, but from what I know so far, the clipping doesn't occur with percussion at all :/ this is confusing. Thanks smile.gif


Hi mate, the solution would be to compress the backing tracks a bit more and have all them at the same level. You can check the media level in db for example with Soundforge. You go to Normalize process, and there you can scan the level. Then you can choose the "media" level of the track and process it.


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Taka Perry
post Sep 21 2013, 06:50 AM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Sep 21 2013, 12:29 AM) *
Hi mate, the solution would be to compress the backing tracks a bit more and have all them at the same level. You can check the media level in db for example with Soundforge. You go to Normalize process, and there you can scan the level. Then you can choose the "media" level of the track and process it.


Thanks Gab smile.gif I'll have a play with it on the computer. I'm not in any rush to fix this, and for the time being I can get by with using my laptop live smile.gif That's what I did last time, and it went pretty well, but obviously a laptop isn't necessarily designed for being thrown around during gigs. The Soundforge software is paid, would something free like Audacity work for this as well?


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Cosmin Lupu
post Sep 21 2013, 08:01 PM
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QUOTE (Taka Perry @ Sep 20 2013, 10:48 AM) *
Awesome, thanks so much mate smile.gif So it basically has a speaker simulation built into the DI box?



Yes, that would be my initial thoughts too, but the backing tracks are all done by me with the same volume, sample rate etc. I'm starting to think that it may be my DI box, as if I'm going into the PA from my laptop, there is not distortion. :\


Aye mates - it is especially designed for guitars smile.gif If you click on the link, you will find out a lot of very interesting and well explained stuff:

http://www.palmer-germany.com/mi/en/PDI-09...itars-PDI09.htm


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Taka Perry
post Sep 22 2013, 12:55 AM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Sep 22 2013, 05:01 AM) *
Aye mates - it is especially designed for guitars smile.gif If you click on the link, you will find out a lot of very interesting and well explained stuff:

http://www.palmer-germany.com/mi/en/PDI-09...itars-PDI09.htm


Wow, it looks like a great thing to have around smile.gif Looking at that diagram, I realised that I never thought about the mixing device between the guitar and PA. It's probably a better idea for me to get a mixer sometime, and plug my iPod into it with backing tracks, instead of trying to run guitar and backing tracks through one signal. Thank you Cosmin,



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Cosmin Lupu
post Sep 22 2013, 07:53 AM
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QUOTE (Taka Perry @ Sep 21 2013, 11:55 PM) *
Wow, it looks like a great thing to have around smile.gif Looking at that diagram, I realised that I never thought about the mixing device between the guitar and PA. It's probably a better idea for me to get a mixer sometime, and plug my iPod into it with backing tracks, instead of trying to run guitar and backing tracks through one signal. Thank you Cosmin,



Good call mate - that's how we do it - the iPod goes into the mixer and then into the PA system when we rehearse. There are a lot of pads and additional vocal tracks that complement the songs that we wrote and we always go live with the tracks. It was a bit tricky at first when we used them, because if somehow, the drummer would skip something - EVERYTHING would go downhill biggrin.gif

But, luckily, we have one of the best drummers around and that never happened!


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Todd Simpson
post Sep 24 2013, 11:22 PM
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TAKA YOU NEED A MIXING BOARD!!! smile.gif

Even a small, cheap one would do the trick. You can get really small, cheap, decent mixing boards with USB 2 channel output so you can record the entire mix to a stereo track on your laptop during live gigs smile.gif

You can get the

Behringer Xenyx X1204 USB
*Built in FX
*USB recording (two track stereo)
*Decent preamps
*EQ, etc.

for under $200 U.S. (160 Euro)

and you could have full control over your levels and run your loops to their own channel. This would pretty much fix all the issues you having if you set it up properly smile.gif I'd say avoid running live sound without a mixer.

Todd

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QUOTE (Taka Perry @ Sep 19 2013, 07:59 PM) *
Anyone got any ideas? This clipping issue is killing me, I just wish things would work without having to buy more gear ohmy.gif Thank you



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Taka Perry
post Sep 25 2013, 11:02 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Sep 25 2013, 08:22 AM) *
TAKA YOU NEED A MIXING BOARD!!! smile.gif

Even a small, cheap one would do the trick. You can get really small, cheap, decent mixing boards with USB 2 channel output so you can record the entire mix to a stereo track on your laptop during live gigs smile.gif

You can get the

Behringer Xenyx X1204 USB
*Built in FX
*USB recording (two track stereo)
*Decent preamps
*EQ, etc.

for under $200 U.S. (160 Euro)

and you could have full control over your levels and run your loops to their own channel. This would pretty much fix all the issues you having if you set it up properly smile.gif I'd say avoid running live sound without a mixer.

Todd

Attached Image


Awesome, had a little search for it. It looks really powerful, and a good price. Maybe I'll be able to afford it after a few busking sessions biggrin.gif (I have one coming up early next month) Thanks! smile.gif


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Darius Wave
post Sep 25 2013, 11:36 PM
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Speakers withour mixing device is like P.A without "A"...or...maybe even without the dot between tongue.gif


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Taka Perry
post Sep 26 2013, 09:42 AM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Sep 26 2013, 08:36 AM) *
Speakers withour mixing device is like P.A without "A"...or...maybe even without the dot between tongue.gif


Well, I'm hoping to change my 'P system' to a 'P.A system' soon! biggrin.gif


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