4 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Minor Pentatonic And Blues Scales
OneWingdAngel
post Oct 11 2007, 09:47 PM
Post #41


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 11
Joined: 11-October 07
Member No.: 3.026



just so its in a more suitable place i will repeat my question here sry for the spaming andrew.
this seems to have a little to do with the minor pentatonic scale so here goes


ok i have played tabs for 2 years and was starved for the theory you are dishing out i am enjoying it all and i thank you. but for the past 2 nights at work i have racked my brain on this.

does the key of a piece equal the root of the main scale used in the piece ?

my brain now hurts i was ready to start my minor pentatonic scale practice when i noticed that if i use say a scale of B major (B,C#,D#,E,F#,G#,A#,
2212221 the root is B. the key would have 5 sharps in it using the circle of fifths i can see A# is 7th or the last sharp 1 dagree up is B. KEY OF B EQUALS the B scale meaning that the scale of B major is the heart of our piece
here is the confusion
say i now use the same B scale only in minor pentatonic. (B,D,E,F#,A, 32232
now this key according to what i have learned should only have 1 sharp F# 1 dagree up is G !!!!!
WHAT key of G? shouldn't it still be KEY OF B I used a B scale?
how do i know that im supposed to use a B minor pentatonic scale for the most part if the key is G?
back to my question shouldnt the key equal my root note B?
please put my mind at ease thanks
WING.

This post has been edited by OneWingdAngel: Oct 11 2007, 09:51 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PlayAllDay
post Oct 12 2007, 09:46 AM
Post #42


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 323
Joined: 30-September 07
Member No.: 2.909



OK Wing - I'll have a go and see if I can help.
A major scale is quite a lot different from a minor pentatonic.
The last note in a generic major scale is one HALF step away from the tonic (or Root note) therefore the A# does lead you to B.
The last note in a generic pentatonic minor scale is one WHOLE step away from the tonic (or Root note) therefore the last note in Bm pent is A which leads you on to B.
It's only in Major scales that the last # note in the order of #'s is always the last note of the scale. The same is not true for minor pentatonics so I think that's where you method of determining root note is letting you down.

Now a Key is an interesting construct of chords and the scales that define or imply those chord progressions are used within the Key. Hmmm. I've read so many definitions of KEY in my life and none really help blink.gif till you have a grasp of chord and scale theory but I'll try... wink.gif
A Key is a tonal centre that identifies the Tonic Triad (or Root Triad) - just 3 little notes! - if you like, it's a symbolic Sun around which all sorts of chords revolve (like planets) and all have harmonic functions within the Key. So you can use many scales within the one Key.
Isn't theory fun! rolleyes.gif
I hope I've helped a little smile.gif but I've probably caused more questions - which is really a good thing so feel free to keep going with this discussion - lots of people have the same questions when it comes to these things.

Oh I've just realised I'm in Andrew's Theory Lessons thread - sorry if I've trod on your toes Andrew laugh.gif Whoops!


--------------------
Lead me not into temptation - I can find the way myself...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
OneWingdAngel
post Oct 12 2007, 09:02 PM
Post #43


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 11
Joined: 11-October 07
Member No.: 3.026



thanks that almost helps maybe i jumped the gun. the problem is that i believe from what i have learned that yes u can use different scales in a piece but the key tells us were we return to. for example a key of B tells me that the piece uses a B major scale as its main scale (and u can use a few licks from other scales as fill). so if the key is B i am thinkin u can use as a main body the B major scale,the B minor scale, the B minor pentatonic scale and so on. this question is directed to the root equals the key as u see there B B B B key of B all works. i am thinking this cuz using the circle of fifths rule Andrew taught me and all the major scales i have tried it does work root equals key (circle of fiths using the last sharp in key go up 1 dagree and u have the key which is ALSO the ROOT of the scale used as main body) so scale of C major the last sharp would be D# 1 dagree up is C all works out) . the main scale used is the C major scale and that Equals the key C.
i tried to use the same rule circle of fifths to find the key when using a minor pentatonic scale. so here i went and laid down a B minor pentatonic scale assuming that the rule would yeild a Key of B to my horror i found 1 sharp in that scale F# the rule 1 dagree up key of G. there is my confusion key of G for a B minor pentatonic scale that doesnt equal my root at all. so if i were to use the key to tell me what scale is the main body i would now think . G major scale, G minor Scale, G minor pentatonic scale and so on and i have no clue why its not key of B the rule doesnt work. i started thinking maybe the key is like a door and only certain scales unlock that door. yes u can use many scales for a lil bit but you must return to the main body or main scale. i figured that the key would tell me if key of B then the main body is all B scaling. so am i wrong some were? does the key give me all notes possible and really u could list apropreite scales under like key of G:main body, G major,B minor pentatonic and what ever other scale use those notes . OR am i so far off u all are waiting for me to go to sleep so u can put a pillow over my face cuz i would be better off? hahaha i hope this clears up my question
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Andrew Cockburn
post Oct 12 2007, 09:58 PM
Post #44


Moderation Policy Director
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 10.459
Joined: 6-February 07
From: CT, USA
Member No.: 1.167



I tried to answer this on my board ...


--------------------
Check out my Instructor profile
Live long and prosper ...

My Stuff:

Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass
Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood
Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mrblomme
post Oct 22 2007, 02:41 AM
Post #45


Learning Apprentice Player
*

Group: Members
Posts: 884
Joined: 17-September 07
From: Adegem - Belgium
Member No.: 2.807



Hi Andrew, very nice lesson but I have a question.
Maybe you've answered this question allready but I didn't find the answer.

So you have the patterns, the first starts with the root note so I know where to play them if I play them in A G F ... etc etc

But if we go to the other 4 patterns I see that we dont start with the root note.

Now Is my question, how do I know in which key the patterns are? If I want to play the same patterns from page 1 in another key lets say A in stead of G. Where do I need to play them then?

Grtz


--------------------
Homer J. Simpson: Rockstars is there anything they dont know?

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Andrew Cockburn
post Oct 22 2007, 02:44 AM
Post #46


Moderation Policy Director
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 10.459
Joined: 6-February 07
From: CT, USA
Member No.: 1.167



Each pattern has the root notes marked - all you have to do is move each pattern until the root note corresponds to the key you want. The root notes will be in different places in different paterns.


--------------------
Check out my Instructor profile
Live long and prosper ...

My Stuff:

Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass
Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood
Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mrblomme
post Oct 22 2007, 02:47 AM
Post #47


Learning Apprentice Player
*

Group: Members
Posts: 884
Joined: 17-September 07
From: Adegem - Belgium
Member No.: 2.807



QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Oct 22 2007, 03:44 AM) *
Each pattern has the root notes marked - all you have to do is move each pattern until the root note corresponds to the key you want. The root notes will be in different places in different paterns.

Oh so if the root note is the second note you play on the A string then you only need to move your hand till the second note on A string is lets say a B to play the B pattern ? smile.gif


--------------------
Homer J. Simpson: Rockstars is there anything they dont know?

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Andrew Cockburn
post Oct 22 2007, 04:29 AM
Post #48


Moderation Policy Director
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 10.459
Joined: 6-February 07
From: CT, USA
Member No.: 1.167



Exactly!


--------------------
Check out my Instructor profile
Live long and prosper ...

My Stuff:

Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass
Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood
Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mrblomme
post Oct 22 2007, 06:26 AM
Post #49


Learning Apprentice Player
*

Group: Members
Posts: 884
Joined: 17-September 07
From: Adegem - Belgium
Member No.: 2.807



Ok tyvm matey. smile.gif

Keep up your good work. wink.gif


--------------------
Homer J. Simpson: Rockstars is there anything they dont know?

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Lester
post Oct 26 2007, 06:47 PM
Post #50


Learning Roadie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 583
Joined: 14-September 07
From: Zwolle, The Netherlands
Member No.: 2.783



finally i understand what i am actually doing smile.gif
Great Work Andrew!!!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Andrew Cockburn
post Oct 26 2007, 08:01 PM
Post #51


Moderation Policy Director
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 10.459
Joined: 6-February 07
From: CT, USA
Member No.: 1.167



QUOTE (Lester @ Oct 26 2007, 01:47 PM) *
finally i understand what i am actually doing smile.gif
Great Work Andrew!!!


Excellent smile.gif


--------------------
Check out my Instructor profile
Live long and prosper ...

My Stuff:

Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass
Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood
Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Pierre2
post Dec 8 2007, 03:51 PM
Post #52


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2
Joined: 8-December 07
Member No.: 3.472



Why do Major and Minor scales have modes and pentatonics do not?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
shammy
post Dec 16 2007, 06:40 AM
Post #53


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 115
Joined: 23-October 07
From: Ma
Member No.: 3.117



Finally went ahead and learned all the blue notes, something I should of done 10 years ago. I really sware by the theory Andrew, wish I was this strict with myself when i was a tad younger. Lovin the theory lessons!!! I was one of those guys that learned a ton of things half way through and now I am paying for it, it's like having to learn to replay, cause my fingers are so used to my old tired licks and not all of these great notes. For new players I would take Andrew's advice when it comes to learning theory and scales etc... it will pay off. My playing has come so far in the month or 2 I have been here. Peace
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kjutte
post Dec 16 2007, 07:12 PM
Post #54


GMC:er
*

Group: Passive
Posts: 1.710
Joined: 17-July 07
From: Norway
Member No.: 2.337



QUOTE (OneWingdAngel @ Oct 11 2007, 09:47 PM) *
just so its in a more suitable place i will repeat my question here sry for the spaming andrew.
this seems to have a little to do with the minor pentatonic scale so here goes
ok i have played tabs for 2 years and was starved for the theory you are dishing out i am enjoying it all and i thank you. but for the past 2 nights at work i have racked my brain on this.

does the key of a piece equal the root of the main scale used in the piece ?

my brain now hurts i was ready to start my minor pentatonic scale practice when i noticed that if i use say a scale of B major (B,C#,D#,E,F#,G#,A#,
2212221 the root is B. the key would have 5 sharps in it using the circle of fifths i can see A# is 7th or the last sharp 1 dagree up is B. KEY OF B EQUALS the B scale meaning that the scale of B major is the heart of our piece
here is the confusion
say i now use the same B scale only in minor pentatonic. (B,D,E,F#,A, 32232
now this key according to what i have learned should only have 1 sharp F# 1 dagree up is G !!!!!
WHAT key of G? shouldn't it still be KEY OF B I used a B scale?
how do i know that im supposed to use a B minor pentatonic scale for the most part if the key is G?
back to my question shouldnt the key equal my root note B?
please put my mind at ease thanks
WING.



That formulae starts off with the Ionian mode, ergo Major.
What you're talking about is minor pentatonic, which is taken from the Aeolian (minor) pattern. you will see its similiarities if you look up a pattern on allguitarchords.com

also, Minor B pentatonics pattern is only the start of the 5 different patterns covering the octave. it only defines where, and how to start.

hope I understood the question, and hope that I made sense smile.gif

QUOTE (Pierre @ Dec 8 2007, 03:51 PM) *
Why do Major and Minor scales have modes and pentatonics do not?


If you compare the 5 pentatonic "modes", you'll see that they are taken from the major scale.

difference is that a major/minor has 7 notes per octave and the penta (penta means 5) has 5 notes per octave in each scale.

SO, to make it short, the pentatonic scales are really the major scale, just with 2 less characterizing notes per octave.

hope that helped
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Khaos Keith
post Dec 17 2007, 06:13 PM
Post #55


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 79
Joined: 16-December 07
From: San Diego, California / USA
Member No.: 3.522



i FINALLY understand how scale formulas work from this thread!!! oh man its so simple now haha. once you know the formula of any type of scale, you then know how to find the scale you want to use to any key note. just gotta brush up on my math skills now hahah


--------------------
Random Person : "got a myspace page?"

Me : "hahaha who doesn't? the url is

http://www.myspace.com/maidenmayhem

hahah"
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kaznie_NL
post Jan 13 2008, 11:19 AM
Post #56


Experienced Tone Seeker
*

Group: Passive
Posts: 4.809
Joined: 8-December 07
From: Hedel, Netherlands
Member No.: 3.471



I have a little silly quistion:

Is E minor pentatonic the same as E petatonic minor?
Because some say the first and some say the second...


--------------------
My YouTube Channel Here

My Rec Takes Here


--- GEAR ---
Ibanez SA08LTD2 BAR
Vox AD50VT
Pod Farm
Line 6 Pod Studio GX
El Cheapo Strat
Dunlop Slide
Korg Toneworks AX5G
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DeepRoots
post Jan 13 2008, 11:22 AM
Post #57


Get to da Chopper!
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 2.700
Joined: 18-March 07
From: South Wales, UK
Member No.: 1.374



QUOTE (kaznie_NL @ Jan 13 2008, 10:19 AM) *
I have a little silly quistion:

Is E minor pentatonic the same as E petatonic minor?
Because some say the first and some say the second...


yeh they're the same wink.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Muris Varajic
post Jan 13 2008, 05:09 PM
Post #58


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.459
Joined: 22-June 07
From: Sarajevo,Bosnia
Member No.: 2.159



QUOTE (kaznie_NL @ Jan 13 2008, 11:19 AM) *
I have a little silly quistion:

Is E minor pentatonic the same as E petatonic minor?
Because some say the first and some say the second...


Yeah,more than the same smile.gif


--------------------
Youtube
MySpace
Website



Album "Let It Out" on
iTunes
and CD Baby

Check out my video lessons and instructor board!

The Pianist
tune is progress,check it out!

"ok.. it is great.. :P

have you myspace? Can i to personalize this for you guy?"
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Shawn
post Feb 7 2008, 05:24 PM
Post #59


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 3
Joined: 31-January 08
From: South Korea
Member No.: 4.070



Hello Andrew,

First I wanted to say that I've started reading through all your theory lessons, and I find them fantasic. Thank you for all the work you've put in to these.

On to my question, which basically falls into this lesson.

When using scales and/or improvising over a chord progression, say for example the 12 bar blues progression you gave of:

G - G - G - G - C - C - G - G - D - C - G - D

Do you match the Minor Pentatonic Blues scale to the specific chord at any given point (ie G minor Pent Blues for the first 4 measues, then switch to C Minor for the 5th and 6th measure, etc) or do you stay with G Minor for the entire progression through the I, IV, V chord progressions?

Looking at the strictly theory perspective, I know that the rules can be broken to create often interesting/unique sounding sequences, etc.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Casper
post May 15 2008, 02:57 AM
Post #60


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 71
Joined: 14-May 08
From: Vancouver
Member No.: 5.108



Don't know how long ive been sitting here with my guitar in my hands playing the mPentatonics and mBlue Scales for.. but ive finally memorized them all biggrin.gif I love how when you improvise they can fit like a jigsaw


--------------------
Guitars: EsP-LtD F-2E , Jackson King V , Fender Strat

MFX: Pandora PX5D, Zoom 505. Sennheiser HD25 mk II Headphones

Blown Amp :(

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

4 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 23rd March 2017 - 01:41 PM