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> Nervous And Over Thinking, Overthinking
Hajduk
post Oct 7 2013, 11:41 PM
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Hi All, just wanted to ask what mind set do you put yourself in when playing in front of others or in my case a camera? I find I tend to overthink than I cant relax and then I make mistakes. My son tells me to pretend the camera is not there! Any suggestions would be awesome smile.gif


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verciazghra
post Oct 8 2013, 02:21 AM
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QUOTE (Hajduk @ Oct 7 2013, 10:41 PM) *
Hi All, just wanted to ask what mind set do you put yourself in when playing in front of others or in my case a camera? I find I tend to overthink than I cant relax and then I make mistakes. My son tells me to pretend the camera is not there! Any suggestions would be awesome smile.gif




Your mind is not you, leave it behind when you play. Experience what you're doing instead of thinking what you're doing. It takes time and effort to release the burden of thinking.


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klasaine
post Oct 8 2013, 03:31 AM
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Like anything else for 'most' folks it just takes practice/experience.
Play something in front of the camera everyday. Eventually you'll get used to it.


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sammetal92
post Oct 8 2013, 04:52 AM
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I was extremely nervous about even recording audio of myself playing when I first came here, now I can't stay without recording almost everything I come up with and showing it to people here laugh.gif

About videos, I actually was very nervous when I joined my second collab (first one was GMC Hit II, an audio one), and it was British Metal Collab 3. I totally kept the camera on the guitar, and the result was a very dark video with a very big guitar laugh.gif Since then, I've joined 8 collabs, 2 of them being audio and 6 of them video, and I've improved a whole lot, I feel pretty comfortable playing in front of a camera, because its just like recording audio you know. If you make a mistake, you can always hit record again, no biggie smile.gif That's what I tell myself, and eventually, now I only need like 2 takes to get it just right smile.gif

So, if you want to get over it, you just need to dive into it and do it more and more every day, and you don't need to necessarily show your videos to people, just keep them for yourself, to remind you how much you're improving day by day.


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Hajduk
post Oct 8 2013, 06:15 AM
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Thank you all for the great advice smile.gif will put it to use!


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Monica Gheorghev...
post Oct 8 2013, 07:25 AM
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I had the same problem with camera in front smile.gif
I still can't say that now it's much better but I try to manage this thing. I can't feel relaxed and I have moments when I lose my concentration. I think this happen because I try to have no expression on my face when I play. I know this is stupid but.......this thing monopolizing all my attention and I forget just to feel the music. All my videos in front of the camera sounds just 70% than how they sounds when I play without the camera smile.gif



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verciazghra
post Oct 8 2013, 08:26 AM
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I'm gonna pipe in here since the standard reply seems to be "do it more". While that's okay advice(at best), it's a very short-sighted approach; because there are so many more constructive things you can do actively. It's a bit like practicing through an entire piece over and over and making the same mistake every time, every time you play it, you re-inforce your mental pathways and willl repeat the mistake even more surely the next time.

To really change the way you think and deal with the problem I suggest you buy or borrow the book The Inner Game of Music. It deals with this issue almost exclusively.

To quote Scott Tennant(author of Pumping Nylon): "... I go out on stage and just go for it. I let my "inner player" play the concert for me; that player we all have inside us which usually emerges when we're playing in front of the TV watching old Star Trek re-runs or the NCAA playoffs." "There is no substitute for preparation." and my favorite one "Remember that whenever you play a note on the guitar you have two choices: to improve or go downhill."

Barry Greene agree's with Scott Tennant and says "There's no better cure for performance anxiety than thorough preparation.".



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Darius Wave
post Oct 8 2013, 09:05 AM
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Probably just a matter of time. The more You'll record, the less You feel uncomfortable in front of the camera. Also camera seems to be a good practice tool. For example when You improvise You could think it went pretty nice but after watching the recording You have a great reference point of what only feels cool while playing but doesn't give same emotions while listening. It helps to improve selfcontrol smile.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Oct 8 2013, 09:29 AM
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Guys smile.gif As Ken says - it's all a matter of experience and in my case, it was also a matter of getting to work with the people behind the camera who managed to point out important things along the way. I have a few friends that are pro cameramen and they have a lot of experience of working in the field and also, they know how to bring out the best in someone when they make a footage with a person.

It's just like a REC take but the focus is on achieving a natural performance, regardless of what you are doing before the camera. Also, the stage experience helps A BIG LOT. When you find yourself in front of a huge audience for a sufficient number of times, you eventually become relaxed enough. As a guitar player, you aren't always in the spotlight, but as a vocalist... well that's a whole different matter. I remember how nervous I was before opening for Arch Enemy last year - not because of the singing I had to do... but because of the breaks between the songs when I had no clue what to say to the people, without being lame or without making them feel how nervous I was. It went well as the guys in the band understood the situation and we made the plan in such a way that the songs wouldn't have such big time intervals between them. Trust me - 30 seconds may seem an eternity sometimes biggrin.gif

Now, all that aside, record DAILY smile.gif Leave the camera on and noodle around - at one point you will forget about it and you will be yourself. It's amazing how much a performance of any kind can be affected by a seemingly encumbering environment. In time and with practice, you can surpass that smile.gif The more you do it, the more confident you become - and don't forget, ENJOY what you are doing!


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Mertay
post Oct 8 2013, 10:09 AM
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First thing to realize is there is a difference between playing for an exam and playing for an audience.

Exam aside, When I first played to an audience I realized if I made a mistake and made a reaction to it (like angry face) they notice something went wrong. But if I keep playing with no pause or visible emotion only a minority understands but even they don't care as I move along.

So the important thing is you simply have to be ready for any mistake and be able to keep playing without any pause, this is the determination of how much you must practice a song before playing to someone.

Now once you do that, on stage you feel much more like home as the fingers go to the right place with minimal thought smile.gif this doesn't mean being super relaxed but you achieve an economy of concentration so you only have to focus stronger on the harder parts of the song when needed. To me there isn't much to think about when playing something I already played a zillion times smile.gif

This post has been edited by Mertay: Oct 8 2013, 10:11 AM


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Cosmin Lupu
post Oct 8 2013, 10:15 AM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Oct 8 2013, 09:09 AM) *
Exam aside, When I first played to an audience I realized if I made a mistake and made a reaction to it (like angry face) they notice something went wrong. But if I keep playing with no pause or visible emotion only a minority understands but even they don't care as I move along.


Best remark I read today wink.gif


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Caelumamittendum
post Oct 8 2013, 10:33 AM
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My initial advice would also be that the more you do it the less nervous you become. You don't want to shy away from the challenge, but if it doesn't improve, maybe have a look at what makes you so nervous and see if you can eliminate that.


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klasaine
post Oct 8 2013, 03:54 PM
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I absolutely agree with all the preparation advice and I subscribe to the 'Inner Game' ethic. I read them, I recommend them.

But one thing that constantly gets overlooked by students who get nervous and players that don't actually perform in front of people very often (if ever) but read these books ... is that guys like Scott Tennant (pumping nylon, LA guitar 4-tet, grammy winner) and Barry Green ('inner game of music', principal bassist w/Cincinnati sym orch) or Kenny Werner ('effortless mastery', countless jazz records) play or spent many years playing between 100 and 250 live gigs a year, not to mention lots of recording sessions. They get to put their method/philosophy into practice all the time.
You can practice, prepare and read all the Zen books you want but performance - at least the first few dozen times - is a different beast. You have to accept that it's different and you have to practice/get experience doing it. You have to learn how it feels to get into a comfortable or safe space in front of people or a camera or a recording desk before it just starts to 'happen'.

All of you guys and gals that perform in live bands. Think about it - you learn your parts, you rehearse the $h1t out of your set and you get it as tight as can be in rehearsal. Is the first gig a 'perfect' gig?

This post has been edited by klasaine: Oct 8 2013, 06:04 PM


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Oct 8 2013, 04:31 PM
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This is something that also happened to me and the way to make it disappear has been practice, or in other words, gaining more experience with that. I remember that the first gigs with a professional band meant that I was going to feel nervous every time I thought on it, even the previous days. Nowadays, and after lots of concerts I enjoy the concerts, I feel some little nervous before the concert but that's normal but I don't suffer it.

So this means that if you keep on doing it, you will get used to it and you won't feel nervous. There is a very interesting book called "Effortless Mastery" that includes many chapters about "fear". I really recommend you to read it. There is one section in which he says "Music is not important", and gives the example of breathing compared to play right a lick or a music part. He uses the plastic bag over the head scenario to describe just how important breathing is than it is to consider music. Getting that next breath of air is a must, figuring out the correct style of jazz is not so important anymore.

QUOTE (verciazghra @ Oct 7 2013, 10:21 PM) *



Your mind is not you, leave it behind when you play. Experience what you're doing instead of thinking what you're doing. It takes time and effort to release the burden of thinking.



This is very interesting. I didn't know about this book, Thanks!


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Hajduk
post Oct 8 2013, 05:17 PM
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Once again, THANK YOU all for the awesome advice. As a martial arts instructor I do school demonstrations and seminars in front of 100s of people and am never nervous as a matter of fact its exciting for me. The last time I played guitar seriously in front of people was when I was studying classical guitar had to do a recital in front of my peers and frankly 99 percent of them were way better than me, I did really well but... forgot to tune my guitar before recital because of being nervous, HAHA smile.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Oct 8 2013, 05:44 PM
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QUOTE (Hajduk @ Oct 8 2013, 01:17 PM) *
Once again, THANK YOU all for the awesome advice. As a martial arts instructor I do school demonstrations and seminars in front of 100s of people and am never nervous as a matter of fact its exciting for me. The last time I played guitar seriously in front of people was when I was studying classical guitar had to do a recital in front of my peers and frankly 99 percent of them were way better than me, I did really well but... forgot to tune my guitar before recital because of being nervous, HAHA smile.gif



hahha the "tuning" issue won't happen again and that confirms why experience and practice is the solution to this. When is your next "playing in public" situation?


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Todd Simpson
post Oct 8 2013, 06:17 PM
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This is some great advice and actually what I used at first myself. It sometimes helps to dissociate yourself from your own mind. Let fear, doubt, ego, just drop and focus only on the notes. Music contains it's own truth. It will guide you if you let it smile.gif

Todd


QUOTE (verciazghra @ Oct 7 2013, 09:21 PM) *



Your mind is not you, leave it behind when you play. Experience what you're doing instead of thinking what you're doing. It takes time and effort to release the burden of thinking.



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verciazghra
post Oct 8 2013, 08:44 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Oct 8 2013, 02:54 PM) *
I absolutely agree with all the preparation advice and I subscribe to the 'Inner Game' ethic. I read them, I recommend them.

But one thing that constantly gets overlooked by students who get nervous and players that don't actually perform in front of people very often (if ever) but read these books ... is that guys like Scott Tennant (pumping nylon, LA guitar 4-tet, grammy winner) and Barry Green ('inner game of music', principal bassist w/Cincinnati sym orch) or Kenny Werner ('effortless mastery', countless jazz records) play or spent many years playing between 100 and 250 live gigs a year, not to mention lots of recording sessions. They get to put their method/philosophy into practice all the time.
You can practice, prepare and read all the Zen books you want but performance - at least the first few dozen times - is a different beast. You have to accept that it's different and you have to practice/get experience doing it. You have to learn how it feels to get into a comfortable or safe space in front of people or a camera or a recording desk before it just starts to 'happen'.

All of you guys and gals that perform in live bands. Think about it - you learn your parts, you rehearse the $h1t out of your set and you get it as tight as can be in rehearsal. Is the first gig a 'perfect' gig?

Agree'd, altho these books also suggest to play in front of audiences as much as possible in addition to their methods. But you have a good point.


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Todd Simpson
post Oct 8 2013, 09:40 PM
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Very true, there is no substitute for experience. All you can do is prepare. The more you do anything, hopefully the easier it will get smile.gif

QUOTE (verciazghra @ Oct 8 2013, 03:44 PM) *
Agree'd, altho these books also suggest to play in front of audiences as much as possible in addition to their methods. But you have a good point.



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klasaine
post Oct 9 2013, 05:01 AM
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QUOTE (verciazghra @ Oct 8 2013, 12:44 PM) *
Agree'd, altho these books also suggest to play in front of audiences as much as possible in addition to their methods. But you have a good point.


Yes, they do reiterate how important 'live' playing is. Which is also one of the most difficult things about playing music these days ... getting gigs.


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