Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Guitar Software/modeling With The Best Clean Sound
Bogdan Radovic
post Oct 8 2013, 08:27 PM
Post #1


Bass & Beginner Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.612
Joined: 30-November 07
From: Belgrade, Serbia
Member No.: 3.410



Hey guys!

I'm curious to know what is the best solution for getting a good clean guitar sound recording via DI and using software (Guitar Rig, Amplitube etc) only?

I have used Amplitube 3 but I'm not really happy with the tones I'm getting.
Somehow they are not clear enough and sound a bit digital.

Any software/signal paths so suggest?


--------------------
For GMC support please email support (at) guitarmasterclass.net
Check out my lessons and my instructor board.
Check out my beginner guitar lessons course! ; Take a bass course now!
My solo and band songs : Keep Going On, Night Vibe, Kad Te Vidim, Susret, Plava Silueta
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Darius Wave
post Oct 8 2013, 09:36 PM
Post #2


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 5.407
Joined: 29-November 12
From: Poland
Member No.: 17.069



QUOTE (Bogdan Radovic @ Oct 8 2013, 07:27 PM) *
Hey guys!

I'm curious to know what is the best solution for getting a good clean guitar sound recording via DI and using software (Guitar Rig, Amplitube etc) only?

I have used Amplitube 3 but I'm not really happy with the tones I'm getting.
Somehow they are not clear enough and sound a bit digital.

Any software/signal paths so suggest?



Bogdan - try to use a compressor before amp plug-in. Those plug-ins seems to act very close to real tube amps and their very sensitive for natural distortion on the clean channel. Compressor with high ratio but low treshold cut will do the job. Of course if this is the reason of Your issue.

We also have a problem of "good clean tone" definition. Warm, lots of low mids, more jazz like or very bright, funky-like, strat tone?


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Todd Simpson
post Oct 8 2013, 09:42 PM
Post #3


GMC:er
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.383
Joined: 23-December 09
From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Member No.: 8.794



Very good point! The compressor is key on clean tones. I"d say try the clean amp head in Scuffham Amps S-gear and use some of the clean presets. Unlike some sims, the presets are pretty good for a starting point. I HATED the presets in amplitude and guitar rig sad.gif Had to build my own smile.gif

Todd




QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Oct 8 2013, 04:36 PM) *
Bogdan - try to use a compressor before amp plug-in. Those plug-ins seems to act very close to real tube amps and their very sensitive for natural distortion on the clean channel. Compressor with high ratio but low treshold cut will do the job. Of course if this is the reason of Your issue.

We also have a problem of "good clean tone" definition. Warm, lots of low mids, more jazz like or very bright, funky-like, strat tone?



--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bogdan Radovic
post Oct 8 2013, 10:36 PM
Post #4


Bass & Beginner Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.612
Joined: 30-November 07
From: Belgrade, Serbia
Member No.: 3.410



QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Oct 8 2013, 10:36 PM) *
We also have a problem of "good clean tone" definition. Warm, lots of low mids, more jazz like or very bright, funky-like, strat tone?


Yes, I should have used the word "natural sounding" as opposed to digital sounding if that makes sense.
Something that gets as close to real amp and mic setup as possible (considering the limitations of software "approach" of course).

Thanks for the tip about compressor positioning, I'll experiment with that.



QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Oct 8 2013, 10:42 PM) *
Very good point! The compressor is key on clean tones. I"d say try the clean amp head in Scuffham Amps S-gear and use some of the clean presets. Unlike some sims, the presets are pretty good for a starting point. I HATED the presets in amplitude and guitar rig sad.gif Had to build my own smile.gif

Todd


Never got a chance to use that one, I'll give it a go! smile.gif

This topic is very interesting to me as usually we debate about the distortion or hi gain sounds using software modelling but we rarely speak about the clean electric guitar sound.


--------------------
For GMC support please email support (at) guitarmasterclass.net
Check out my lessons and my instructor board.
Check out my beginner guitar lessons course! ; Take a bass course now!
My solo and band songs : Keep Going On, Night Vibe, Kad Te Vidim, Susret, Plava Silueta
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Taka Perry
post Oct 9 2013, 11:12 AM
Post #5


Learning Rock Star
*

Group: Members
Posts: 642
Joined: 16-July 13
From: Australia
Member No.: 18.500



I've heard great things about S-Gear too. I'll have to try it out sometime. For DI tones, I personally use AcmeBarGig's Headcase, which I think is very good. Still, everyone's ears are different, so I'd just download all the trial's and see what you like. I've never been a fan of presets myself, I use them sometimes as a starting point, but amp simulators are just a little more fiddlier than physical amps when it comes to getting a great tone. cool.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mertay
post Oct 9 2013, 11:24 AM
Post #6


GMC:er
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 3.109
Joined: 27-May 13
From: Turkey / izmir
Member No.: 18.294



Amplitube amps require a certain gain to sound its best because they are (sort of) sampled in a certain gain setting. Using the input-output knob is very important like sometimes increasing the input but lowering the gain really helps for a smoother sound.

Once thats done also try these amps with different cab. ir's with a different plug-in. Many hates amplitube cab.s.

Besides amplitube also try kuassa vermilion, these 2 are my go to clean sounding amp sims.

http://www.kuassa.com/products/amplifikation-vermilion

This post has been edited by Mertay: Oct 9 2013, 11:26 AM


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Darius Wave
post Oct 9 2013, 02:10 PM
Post #7


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 5.407
Joined: 29-November 12
From: Poland
Member No.: 17.069



Very good point by Mertay. Hardware input level vs plug-in input level proportion is a key.Sad thing is that audio interface instead of guitar amplifier doesn't work well with "over 0 dB" values". Real amp can handle really huge input signal with nice, natural distortion. Amp simulations have some limitations on this field.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Todd Simpson
post Oct 10 2013, 02:54 AM
Post #8


GMC:er
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.383
Joined: 23-December 09
From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Member No.: 8.794



Really depends on the amp sim, IMHO. The S-GEAR plugin seems to behave pretty much spot on to a real TUBE amp. But no matter how good these get or how amazing they sound, there will always be guys like you who simply prefer and amp and that's fine too as it takes all kinds smile.gif

Todd




QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Oct 9 2013, 09:10 AM) *
Very good point by Mertay. Hardware input level vs plug-in input level proportion is a key.Sad thing is that audio interface instead of guitar amplifier doesn't work well with "over 0 dB" values". Real amp can handle really huge input signal with nice, natural distortion. Amp simulations have some limitations on this field.



--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Darius Wave
post Oct 10 2013, 02:13 PM
Post #9


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 5.407
Joined: 29-November 12
From: Poland
Member No.: 17.069



QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Oct 10 2013, 01:54 AM) *
Really depends on the amp sim, IMHO. The S-GEAR plugin seems to behave pretty much spot on to a real TUBE amp. But no matter how good these get or how amazing they sound, there will always be guys like you who simply prefer and amp and that's fine too as it takes all kinds smile.gif

Todd



It's not like that. I'm a real amp guy when I play live. But I give same amount of lovefor plug-ins when it comes to recordings. Present simulations can even give You sort of "..... up" tone, similar to badly recorded real amp. Had this feeling while testing some impulses made of V30 cabinet smile.gif I only pointed some hard to fine "hard rule" thing with the difference of how the real amp see the guitar output level, and how it relates to 0dB "not digitally distorted" signal limit while working with audio interface. Like someone pointed (Mertay?) -it's a fight between setup of interface input level and plug-in input level (not to be confued with gain /distortion level even if actually itdoes affect it).

So before judgiing the plug-in it's good to mess around with the input levels, Otherwise some clean tones might become bleusy crunch even on the lowest gain settings smile.gif That's all I'm about to tell.

I'm not a plug-in enemy at all! smile.gif I'm a very happy user such as You Todd smile.gif The only difference is You are more up to Overload and I'm the LePou guy wink.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mertay
post Oct 10 2013, 06:39 PM
Post #10


GMC:er
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 3.109
Joined: 27-May 13
From: Turkey / izmir
Member No.: 18.294



I guess the thing that creates confusion is (although this some-what depends on the tech the plug-in uses) plug-ins can have a sweetspot while real amps don't smile.gif

Finding a sweetspot is very studio discipline thing. Its actually more about the hardware/software rather than sound and although the amp plug-ins aim is the sound, it internally functions like a studio recording tool.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bogdan Radovic
post Oct 10 2013, 07:32 PM
Post #11


Bass & Beginner Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.612
Joined: 30-November 07
From: Belgrade, Serbia
Member No.: 3.410



Thanks, this discussion is very interesting and useful to me! I never used software other than Guitar Rig, Amplitube and Gearbox. Looks like there are other solutions out there and that it is possible to use some add-on cabinet impulses? smile.gif Something completely new to me, hope to learn more about it. I think software modelling is the future of home recording so it is very important for every musician to get familiar with it as much as possible.


--------------------
For GMC support please email support (at) guitarmasterclass.net
Check out my lessons and my instructor board.
Check out my beginner guitar lessons course! ; Take a bass course now!
My solo and band songs : Keep Going On, Night Vibe, Kad Te Vidim, Susret, Plava Silueta
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mertay
post Oct 10 2013, 09:36 PM
Post #12


GMC:er
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 3.109
Joined: 27-May 13
From: Turkey / izmir
Member No.: 18.294



QUOTE (Bogdan Radovic @ Oct 10 2013, 06:32 PM) *
Thanks, this discussion is very interesting and useful to me! I never used software other than Guitar Rig, Amplitube and Gearbox. Looks like there are other solutions out there and that it is possible to use some add-on cabinet impulses? smile.gif Something completely new to me, hope to learn more about it. I think software modelling is the future of home recording so it is very important for every musician to get familiar with it as much as possible.



Sure smile.gif I guess the most famous cab. ir loader is the free lecab;

http://lepouplugins.blogspot.com/

Simply disable the cab on amplitube (or guitar rig), insert this as after amplitube and load an ir inside. Its ok to insert another plug-in after it if needed like reverb, think just like the real guitar chain but after the cab its like stage chain.

Cab. impulses though are sooooo many when you search the internet. I don't use cab ir.s anymore but I'm sure friends here will give great advice.

Don't rush to try stuff cause there are so many but later you can try the free amps at the blog I gave link, there are some nice free stuff there smile.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Todd Simpson
post Oct 12 2013, 09:03 PM
Post #13


GMC:er
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.383
Joined: 23-December 09
From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Member No.: 8.794



Great point smile.gif I use an interface/soundcard that is also a full on mixer so I get to EQ the signal as it goes in and I have a fader on each channel and a Mic trim. Also, I'm passing through an Active Direct Box that can punch in 20 db of gain if needed.

This way I can push the input as hard or soft as needed for a given sim. I use amp sims a TON so I've gotten very used to finding that "Sweet Spot" on each one. Typically when I find folks are not getting the sounds they want it's due to using an interface/setup that has limited input gain/eq controls. I wish more interfaces were based on mixers but that seems to jack up the price. Here is a pic of mine which is now discontinued so I WOULD NOT suggest anyone buy one at this point.
Attached Image




The best interface for the price/features for the home studio musicians IMHO that I've seen currently is the PRESONUS 16.0.2. But they are NOT CHEAP!!! $1,200!!!!! But they do have 16 inputs with full control and signal manipulation for each channel.

http://www.presonus.com/products/StudioLive-16.0.2

Attached Image

Using an interface with for example one gain knob, makes it VERY much more involved to find that "sweet spot" and make the sim sound it's best.





QUOTE (Mertay @ Oct 10 2013, 01:39 PM) *
I guess the thing that creates confusion is (although this some-what depends on the tech the plug-in uses) plug-ins can have a sweetspot while real amps don't smile.gif

Finding a sweetspot is very studio discipline thing. Its actually more about the hardware/software rather than sound and although the amp plug-ins aim is the sound, it internally functions like a studio recording tool.



--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 12th December 2017 - 12:03 AM