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The Professor
post Oct 20 2013, 10:29 AM
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Getting ready to write up this week's music theory lessons.

Is there anything or any topic you would like to see covered?


Let me know and I will make sure to do a theory lesson that covers any questions that you may have.


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AdamB
post Oct 21 2013, 01:26 PM
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I have a quick question for you!

If I were playing C#sus4->C#->Bsus4->B->Asus4->A, what key is it?

I have trouble understanding how this progression works, because I would expect the C# to be minor rather than major.

What is the tonal centre and what scales would I use?

This post has been edited by AdamB: Oct 21 2013, 01:27 PM
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The Professor
post Oct 21 2013, 01:36 PM
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Hey

That's a good question. If you wanted to label it in one key, then the C# would have to be C#m, or you could play them as C#sus to C#5 and that would also fit into one key, E major as then it would basically be A B C#m which is the IV V and vi in E major.

So if you have C# B and A major chords, then you have two different keys.

Are there other chords surrounding these changes? Or other chords in the song? If so let me know and then I can help you further with figuring out the best key(s) to think about with these chords.


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AdamB
post Oct 21 2013, 01:44 PM
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Well I know it's from a rolling stones song, but I don't know which. I was jamming with someone and they just showed me those chords, I think they just cycle over and over. Confused me, as I don't know how to improvise over that progression, my initial reaction was to start playing C# minor pentatonic, but I don't think it worked particularly well.
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The Professor
post Oct 21 2013, 01:49 PM
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Yeah that's tough, you might want to try thinking about it as D# minor moving to C#minor as B and C# come from F# major, or D# minor, and A and B come from E major, or C# minor.

so moving between those two scales might be the best way to go in order to hit all of those chords in the solo


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AdamB
post Oct 21 2013, 01:58 PM
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Found out the song he was playing was this Gimme Shelter by the stones;
http://www.totalsheetmusic.com/Gimme-Shelter-P1163662.aspx

So the first chord I would play around D# minor pentatonic and switch to C# minor pentatonic for the next chords?

How come this works, is it because the two keys share the B chord, so it's pivoting on that chord? Just trying to understand.
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The Professor
post Oct 21 2013, 02:39 PM
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Hey

Well for that song you can really get away with just playing C#m pentatonic as that's what is going on in the song most of the time.

If you wanted to really address these chords, outside of the context of the song perhaps, then yes the B would be your pivot chord as it is in both of those keys, while the other two chords are only in one key.

So even though they aren't all in the same key, the C#m pent will work over these chords as A and B are in C# minor, and playing C#m over C# just gives it a bluesy feel. Which is why C#m pent will work, but has a bit of a different sound to it depending on which chord you are soloing over at the time.


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Patrik Berg
post Oct 22 2013, 01:25 PM
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Hey there Professor, if I play a chord starting on the A (5th) string and the notes are like this B-D-G-D-E would I call it an inversion of Em7 or G6/B ?


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The Professor
post Oct 22 2013, 02:02 PM
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You could call it either depending on the bass note. If there is no basa player then I would probably go with Em since that's a more common chord.


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bryant
post Oct 25 2013, 01:22 PM
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QUOTE (The Professor @ Oct 20 2013, 10:29 AM) *
Getting ready to write up this week's music theory lessons.

Is there anything or any topic you would like to see covered?


Let me know and I will make sure to do a theory lesson that covers any questions that you may have.


Was wondering if there are any more specific tips when soloing over a chord progression other than just banging on random notes through a specific scale or two that I am familiar with. In other words, I am quite well versed in theory and scales, etc. , but. I can't seem to pick out a decent sounding (not boring) type of solo over the progression of C-Em-Am .
One measure of C and a half-measure of both the Em and Am. The song is "Well Respected Man" by The Kinks .

It seems difficult to simply pick out partial arpeggio's over two beats of the Em and/or the Am. Maybe a few simple licks to get me started that I can repeat and expand on would be helpful?

Thanx in advance,
Bryant
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The Professor
post Oct 25 2013, 01:51 PM
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Hey
For that progression you could try the Am or Em pentatonic scale as both will fit nicely. You could also check out the C maj and G maj scales as they will fit too. Start there and see what happens.


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bryant
post Oct 25 2013, 03:29 PM
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QUOTE (The Professor @ Oct 25 2013, 01:51 PM) *
Hey
For that progression you could try the Am or Em pentatonic scale as both will fit nicely. You could also check out the C maj and G maj scales as they will fit too. Start there and see what happens.

Yes, I see. I had stated that I was very familiar with corresponding the chords with the scales and visa-versa but I was getting a boring batch of random notes from within those very scales you mentioned, and that I couldn't seem to improve on and needed something more specific such as a few beginning notes, or a lick or two you think may fit well(over the melody)or even a short tablature over the first four or five measures to get me going? smile.gif
Thanx again.
Bryant
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The Professor
post Oct 25 2013, 08:36 PM
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Cool, check out these two licks, they will both work over your key to get you going. Let me know how these turn out for you.

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...showtopic=47466

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...showtopic=49887


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PosterBoy
post Oct 30 2013, 11:32 AM
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Hey Prof

Every now and again I find my self in awe of the sweet changes by gospel style pianists.

I know some of the theory behind the basics of substitutions Tritone Sub, parallel major/minor, approaching from a semitone above below or a 5th etc.

If I can find some good examples could we discuss the thinking behind them, so I could start encorporating them in my own compostions?


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The Professor
post Oct 30 2013, 03:08 PM
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Great question! Here is a cool Gospel Blues form to check out in the mean time. Can you analyze this to start?



A7/D7 Dm7 G7/A7/A7

D7/Dm7 G7/A7 Ab7/G7 F#7/

Bm7/E7#9/A7 F#7/Bm7 E7#9/


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PosterBoy
post Oct 31 2013, 11:31 AM
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QUOTE (The Professor @ Oct 30 2013, 03:08 PM) *
Great question! Here is a cool Gospel Blues form to check out in the mean time. Can you analyze this to start?



A7/D7 Dm7 G7/A7/A7

D7/Dm7 G7/A7 Ab7/G7 F#7/

Bm7/E7#9/A7 F#7/Bm7 E7#9/



Ok here goes my analysis

I7/IV7 iv7 G7/I7/I7

So we have an A blues with the Iv7 leading to it's parallel minor

the G7 is throwing me a little I can hear it being used as a substitute for the v7 chord as it resolves nicely to the A7, but in terms of music theory I don't know why.
G7 - GBDF E7 - EG#BD we have to common notes and two notes a half step away.
On further thought and looking at it coming from the Dm7 (the iv7 of Am) rather than it going to the A7 , it is the VII7 of Am.



D7/Dm7 G7/A7 Ab7/G7 F#7/

This line is more of the same but with a Chromatic walkdown to the VI7 F#7 - F# C# Bb E
This gives us a common note to BM7 on the next line and a couple a half step away which help to move to it

Bm7/E7#9/A7 F#7/Bm7 E7#9/

ii /Vi/i Vi7/ii7 V

Here we have the classic 251 progression and again the VI7 which leads nicely back to the ii7 to the V7 ready to start again on the I7
The E7#9 (the hendrix chord is just adding a nice dissonant extention)

This post has been edited by PosterBoy: Oct 31 2013, 11:32 AM


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The Professor
post Oct 31 2013, 12:04 PM
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QUOTE (PosterBoy @ Oct 31 2013, 11:31 AM) *
Ok here goes my analysis

I7/IV7 iv7 G7/I7/I7

So we have an A blues with the Iv7 leading to it's parallel minor

the G7 is throwing me a little I can hear it being used as a substitute for the v7 chord as it resolves nicely to the A7, but in terms of music theory I don't know why.
G7 - GBDF E7 - EG#BD we have to common notes and two notes a half step away.
On further thought and looking at it coming from the Dm7 (the iv7 of Am) rather than it going to the A7 , it is the VII7 of Am.



D7/Dm7 G7/A7 Ab7/G7 F#7/

This line is more of the same but with a Chromatic walkdown to the VI7 F#7 - F# C# Bb E
This gives us a common note to BM7 on the next line and a couple a half step away which help to move to it

Bm7/E7#9/A7 F#7/Bm7 E7#9/

ii /Vi/i Vi7/ii7 V

Here we have the classic 251 progression and again the VI7 which leads nicely back to the ii7 to the V7 ready to start again on the I7
The E7#9 (the hendrix chord is just adding a nice dissonant extention)



Cool, that's pretty much it. The Dm7-G7-A7 is called a "back door ii V" and used by gospel players a lot. It's just another way to get from the IV to the I without doing a standard ii V I progression. So we usually label it as IVm7-bVII7-I7.

For the walk down, the F#7 is the V7/iim7, so the F#7 leads to the Bm7 in bar 9, putting a VI7 or V7/iim7 in bar 8 of a blues is a common thing that jazz and gospel cats do a lot, helps add some movement in that bar.

Then the walk down just gets you from A7 to F#7 chromatically, so not really worth analyzing beyond that, just I7 to VI7 with VII7 and bVII7 used to connect the two.

NIce one!


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PosterBoy
post Nov 6 2013, 04:21 PM
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On the same subject of the gospel progressions etc I found this interesting tool

http://www.chordsoncards.com/main.sc

Mainly for piano but they have brought out a set of cards for guitar

It looks like you choose your key and then can find chord ideas based on your melody/top note or by bass note



Maybe a nice way to get an interesting progression and then work out why it works




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