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> Enlo22 - The Mighty Mixer Meister, mixing workshop
Darius Wave
post Oct 23 2013, 08:58 AM
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Hey mate! Post Your latest song from YT in the very first post and try to make detailed list of what gear and software You use for Your recordings wink.gif


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enlo22
post Oct 24 2013, 12:01 AM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Oct 23 2013, 07:58 AM) *
Hey mate! Post Your latest song from YT in the very first post and try to make detailed list of what gear and software You use for Your recordings wink.gif


lets see if i do this right haha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl3EVXzPuXU

gear :
Line 6 Gx
Guitar rig 5
Reaper
Ez Drummer (dfh)
TrackS3 (EQ,Compression)
Bitter Sweet Flux 2

That's all I'm using currently!


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Darius Wave
post Oct 24 2013, 08:47 AM
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Great so let's start some fixes. Please send me (here as an attachment) a stereo mix of only drums tracks. Bestif it could be wav 16 bit PCM. I will take a close look at the spectrum analyzer and give You some tips where You could look at. At the same time please download and install Voxendo Span:

http://www.voxengo.com/product/span/

It's probably one of the most efficient free analyzer plug-in out there. I'll show You how to work with it so You could judge how much You can trust Your speakers and how much thye analyzer (to make Your mix sound good not only on Your own speakers) smile.gif


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enlo22
post Oct 24 2013, 07:10 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Oct 24 2013, 07:47 AM) *
Great so let's start some fixes. Please send me (here as an attachment) a stereo mix of only drums tracks. Bestif it could be wav 16 bit PCM. I will take a close look at the spectrum analyzer and give You some tips where You could look at. At the same time please download and install Voxendo Span:

http://www.voxengo.com/product/span/

It's probably one of the most efficient free analyzer plug-in out there. I'll show You how to work with it so You could judge how much You can trust Your speakers and how much thye analyzer (to make Your mix sound good not only on Your own speakers) smile.gif



ok man lets hope I did it right! and i'm going to download that analyzer now! thanks for the help man.
One of them is the drums and the other one is the whole track using the new plug in! sucks that it cuts out because it's the demo verson :/ good thing I got a job today haha

This post has been edited by enlo22: Oct 24 2013, 08:26 PM


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Darius Wave
post Oct 25 2013, 10:50 AM
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Two very important things


1. Do You setup drums only in the EZ mixer or You use "multitrack option" andedit each drum track as a DAW track?

2. Do You draw to midi file or record from external midi keyboard or something. Bass drum has to low velocity so it doesn't give You full attack and as a result we have only a "plastic" shadow of attack rather than nice and equal attack. Veleocity changes are a must when You have very dense drums parts and don't want to sound like like a drum machine - then it's good to make for example 1 3 5 7 beats with full velocity (127) and bit lower (115) with 2 4 6 8 beats. This is what usually happens naturally while drummer play - even less velocity - usually the faster they play, the less time to give full strength so it's naturall that fast runs are lower "velocity". This is one of the very first things people forget why programming the drums and then they claim that "the drum machine sound unnatrual". The truth is the we can make it sound natural as far as we take some time for deep analyzis of what exactly drummers do - accent, ghost notes, velocity differances.
It's a most important thing to start while learning to program the drums.

In my case when drums play slow parts (in rock metal) the bass drum and snare drum goes with 127 velocity (same with cymbals). It's a matter of tone. Doesn't work with every single beat (there are moments that need lower velocity but those usually are some breaks, cymbal accents on soft parts of the songs, drum rolls snare crescendos)

This post has been edited by Darius Wave: Oct 25 2013, 10:58 AM


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enlo22
post Oct 25 2013, 04:17 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Oct 25 2013, 09:50 AM) *
Two very important things


1. Do You setup drums only in the EZ mixer or You use "multitrack option" andedit each drum track as a DAW track?

2. Do You draw to midi file or record from external midi keyboard or something. Bass drum has to low velocity so it doesn't give You full attack and as a result we have only a "plastic" shadow of attack rather than nice and equal attack. Veleocity changes are a must when You have very dense drums parts and don't want to sound like like a drum machine - then it's good to make for example 1 3 5 7 beats with full velocity (127) and bit lower (115) with 2 4 6 8 beats. This is what usually happens naturally while drummer play - even less velocity - usually the faster they play, the less time to give full strength so it's naturall that fast runs are lower "velocity". This is one of the very first things people forget why programming the drums and then they claim that "the drum machine sound unnatrual". The truth is the we can make it sound natural as far as we take some time for deep analyzis of what exactly drummers do - accent, ghost notes, velocity differances.
It's a most important thing to start while learning to program the drums.

In my case when drums play slow parts (in rock metal) the bass drum and snare drum goes with 127 velocity (same with cymbals). It's a matter of tone. Doesn't work with every single beat (there are moments that need lower velocity but those usually are some breaks, cymbal accents on soft parts of the songs, drum rolls snare crescendos)



Yes I'm using the Multitrack option and i edit each track separately,
In this case I used a track from Guitar Pro and imported the midi into Reaper. I will take a look at the bass drum velocity!


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Darius Wave
post Oct 25 2013, 06:50 PM
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QUOTE (enlo22 @ Oct 25 2013, 03:17 PM) *
Yes I'm using the Multitrack option and i edit each track separately,
In this case I used a track from Guitar Pro and imported the midi into Reaper. I will take a look at the bass drum velocity!



Try to recheck and improve all tracks velocity


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enlo22
post Oct 28 2013, 06:53 AM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Oct 25 2013, 05:50 PM) *
Try to recheck and improve all tracks velocity


ok i checked all tracks velocity and followed what you said! seems to have improved in my ears, but i'm obviously not the best judge haha!
just wanted to say thanks again for taking the time to guide me through this. looking forward to your reply.
PS: I really need to get a bass!


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Darius Wave
post Oct 28 2013, 11:20 AM
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Indeed it's better. You loose a lot of energy because of the cymbals being much too quiet Believe me - Your guitar tone is that much clear, that it will cut through the mix even if You add some extra 3 dB's of overheads. I usually set the proportion between overheads and room track in the DFH mixer and than send both to one, stereo DAW track. I usually set the High Pass Filter very high to get rid of all the low and boomy mids out of the cymbals. Can You show me Your symbals EQ print screen?

Tell me what Reverb plug-ins do You have so we coudl add some space to those drums


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enlo22
post Oct 28 2013, 02:40 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Oct 28 2013, 10:20 AM) *
Indeed it's better. You loose a lot of energy because of the cymbals being much too quiet Believe me - Your guitar tone is that much clear, that it will cut through the mix even if You add some extra 3 dB's of overheads. I usually set the proportion between overheads and room track in the DFH mixer and than send both to one, stereo DAW track. I usually set the High Pass Filter very high to get rid of all the low and boomy mids out of the cymbals. Can You show me Your symbals EQ print screen?

Tell me what Reverb plug-ins do You have so we coudl add some space to those drums



I don't have any eq in the cymbals at allll! the only reverb I have is the reverb that comes with reaper :/


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Darius Wave
post Oct 28 2013, 03:19 PM
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QUOTE (enlo22 @ Oct 28 2013, 02:40 PM) *
I don't have any eq in the cymbals at allll! the only reverb I have is the reverb that comes with reaper :/



One of most common tips is having more than one tracks (groups / fx tracks) of the same reverb with different length but the same color and room size / predelay settings.

for example sometimes snare like long reverb at full spectrum to sound natural while cymbals would make a lot of mess at the same reverb settings. Basic process looks like this:

1. Add 2 separated, stereo FX channels
2. Turn on some reverb on both
3. Setup the roomsize (both the same)
4. Set up length / decay - like short one and long one (0,4 and 0,8 s for example)
5. Set mix to 100% wet
6. Use send option from each drum track to send only as much signal to reverb as necessary

This sould help a bit:



Try to get familiar with this and let me know so we can progress with "how to find best reverb setting and mix"


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enlo22
post Oct 28 2013, 05:59 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Oct 28 2013, 02:19 PM) *
One of most common tips is having more than one tracks (groups / fx tracks) of the same reverb with different length but the same color and room size / predelay settings.

for example sometimes snare like long reverb at full spectrum to sound natural while cymbals would make a lot of mess at the same reverb settings. Basic process looks like this:

1. Add 2 separated, stereo FX channels
2. Turn on some reverb on both
3. Setup the roomsize (both the same)
4. Set up length / decay - like short one and long one (0,4 and 0,8 s for example)
5. Set mix to 100% wet
6. Use send option from each drum track to send only as much signal to reverb as necessary

This sould help a bit:



Try to get familiar with this and let me know so we can progress with "how to find best reverb setting and mix"


I set one to .4 and the other to .8ms
sent tracks over to them and here's what i have! man i see the improvement and it's awesome, i feel like the crappy mixes damped my guitar playing before.

This post has been edited by enlo22: Oct 28 2013, 06:33 PM


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Darius Wave
post Oct 31 2013, 11:46 AM
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And now the low end of bass drum is not tham boomy and annoying smile.gif That's clear progress smile.gif DFH overheads are already highly eq-ed some in some cases they are ok without any additional EQ-ing. Now let's make some bass.

You have a lot of different options for it but let's start from the simpliest smile.gif

Try to get:

4Front bass (it's free, You ) - You can write Your bass through midi and it'll sound pretty natural

Amplitube 1.1 has a nice rock solid bass preset that will add more rock/metal spirit to that bass

Let me know when You get those


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enlo22
post Oct 31 2013, 07:51 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Oct 31 2013, 10:46 AM) *
And now the low end of bass drum is not tham boomy and annoying smile.gif That's clear progress smile.gif DFH overheads are already highly eq-ed some in some cases they are ok without any additional EQ-ing. Now let's make some bass.

You have a lot of different options for it but let's start from the simpliest smile.gif

Try to get:

4Front bass (it's free, You ) - You can write Your bass through midi and it'll sound pretty natural

Amplitube 1.1 has a nice rock solid bass preset that will add more rock/metal spirit to that bass

Let me know when You get those


I downloaded the 4front bass. can i use guitar rig with it? and i tried the midi thing but it's soooo complicated for me to get the timing right idk why!!


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Darius Wave
post Nov 1 2013, 05:36 PM
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QUOTE (enlo22 @ Oct 31 2013, 07:51 PM) *
I downloaded the 4front bass. can i use guitar rig with it? and i tried the midi thing but it's soooo complicated for me to get the timing right idk why!!



Well ...try to Youe snap option and select rhythm values to algin too in You Daw. Of course if You didn't do it Yet. Drawing with "snap" otion on is even easier that manually playing the keyboard. But if it's "off" than it could take a bit more time


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enlo22
post Nov 2 2013, 08:23 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Nov 1 2013, 04:36 PM) *
Well ...try to Youe snap option and select rhythm values to algin too in You Daw. Of course if You didn't do it Yet. Drawing with "snap" otion on is even easier that manually playing the keyboard. But if it's "off" than it could take a bit more time


here's a bit of it with bass. My computer has been lagging like crazy!! so idk what to do! i probably need more RAM because it's impossible to work with at the moment :/


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Darius Wave
post Nov 4 2013, 03:27 PM
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Yes indeed it might be a matter of RAM. Unfortunatel while inscreasing the usage of DAW abilities it does take more and more CPU and RAM ussage. Also what are You PC parameters?


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enlo22
post Nov 4 2013, 07:02 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Nov 4 2013, 02:27 PM) *
Yes indeed it might be a matter of RAM. Unfortunatel while inscreasing the usage of DAW abilities it does take more and more CPU and RAM ussage. Also what are You PC parameters?


to be honest i have no idea, it's honestlly a piece of crap, i plan on getting a new one soon. As for now do you have anymore tips on mixing?? i've really been enjoying this mentoring thing!


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Darius Wave
post Nov 12 2013, 11:18 PM
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I'm sorry - I've been switching to a new PC myself because it did suck too smile.gif I can't promise it's true but with some older PC devices I had always some problem with any kind of USB audio device. Now I have a Presonus firewire 1394 and it worked best from anything I had. I was stable as hell even on my old PC. I could work with a lot of tracks and tons of vst (I use mostly vst) so You might be another example of interface limitations more than PC itself. I had this GX too and I was able to work with a guitar tracks only pretty well but...I porly handled full sessions. Is Your PC a notebook or a regular "huge" PC that You could plug (cheap as hell) firewire additional card for PCI and then plug a Firewire audio interface (worth thinking of buying one...even used and old one) I bet Your memory problems starts at the level of GX....


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enlo22
post Nov 13 2013, 08:15 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Nov 12 2013, 10:18 PM) *
I'm sorry - I've been switching to a new PC myself because it did suck too smile.gif I can't promise it's true but with some older PC devices I had always some problem with any kind of USB audio device. Now I have a Presonus firewire 1394 and it worked best from anything I had. I was stable as hell even on my old PC. I could work with a lot of tracks and tons of vst (I use mostly vst) so You might be another example of interface limitations more than PC itself. I had this GX too and I was able to work with a guitar tracks only pretty well but...I porly handled full sessions. Is Your PC a notebook or a regular "huge" PC that You could plug (cheap as hell) firewire additional card for PCI and then plug a Firewire audio interface (worth thinking of buying one...even used and old one) I bet Your memory problems starts at the level of GX....



i'm glad you got a good pc now! yeah mine is just an old laptop lol a gateway from 2008! i think a new interface would improve performance as well! also purchasing a bass lol


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