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> Enlo22 - The Mighty Mixer Meister, mixing workshop
enlo22
post Mar 9 2014, 04:22 AM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Mar 5 2014, 11:01 AM) *
OIf course...there is still a lot of those biggrin.gif Let's talk about the gain stages mentioned by tonymiro.

Gainstage as a term is nothing more then the gain level / levels. The basic idea is

WE DON';T WANT TO HAVE ANY SINGLE CLIP EITHER ON EVERY SINGLE TRACK OR THE WHOLE MIX.

Most of mixing guys work on very low volumes of the tracks to be sure that whole mix will not have any clipping. In my case I usually start at -12 to -15 dB volume setting on every track. While mixing You will here Your daw session is very quiet comparing to the mastered music You listen to.

Even if You took the time to avoid clipping while recording (no single clip at input) the it's still easy to make whole mix clipping and
in case of digital clip is like a "no information, no data at the moment" it was a bit different with analog tapes etc".

How does Your volume and gain (input levels) look in the session?

BTW...compressor cut the signal but will never remove the clipping if it has been ecorded with clipping.


ok, I understand. I'm sure none of the signals clipped when I recorded them. I took a photo of the screen to see if you can see if something is wrong?


Attached image(s)
Attached Image
 


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Darius Wave
post Mar 9 2014, 03:55 PM
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I think that a few track of -6 dB volume played together can cause clipping on the master bus. Rolling down master volume does not always solve the problem. 13-16 dB is usually a safe spot. Does the volume meter show record input level or the volume level after adjusting the fader?


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enlo22
post Mar 9 2014, 06:22 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Mar 9 2014, 02:55 PM) *
I think that a few track of -6 dB volume played together can cause clipping on the master bus. Rolling down master volume does not always solve the problem. 13-16 dB is usually a safe spot. Does the volume meter show record input level or the volume level after adjusting the fader?



so am i supposed to adjust the output level of the plug ins such as guitar rig and superior drummer? or the volumes of the tracks? it shows the volume after adjusting the fader. should my master track be at 13-16 or should my individual tracks be at that level?


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Darius Wave
post Mar 11 2014, 04:18 PM
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1. Yes - You can adjust the levels with both - plug-ins out and it's track fader
2. Yes - 13 db is a good level of full mix BEFORE master. Your mix file should be way quite comparing to the records You usually listen too (band's cd etc)

Why it's so important?

Instruments like snare drum can have a constant - 13 dB output level BUT just a single hit on snare can have clipping in very narrow range. Like 1kHz huge click while playing rimshot. And sometimes You check every track alone BUT when play together when at some point they have a boost in similar freq range they can cause clipping as well. Digital clip is like a hole in the book's page. You'll never know what has been written there because after 0 dB thee is no data space for audio. Tough to explain but this is how it works.

Because we work in the digital field there will be NO ADDITIONAL NOISE if You normalize the mix that has been done with low volume level. This can be easy fixed BUT...if there is a clipping - You can only "cheat" with compression, limiters etc so You won't see the red light. But it doesn't change the fact that those clipping points are destroying the mix...


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enlo22
post Mar 11 2014, 08:55 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Mar 11 2014, 03:18 PM) *
1. Yes - You can adjust the levels with both - plug-ins out and it's track fader
2. Yes - 13 db is a good level of full mix BEFORE master. Your mix file should be way quite comparing to the records You usually listen too (band's cd etc)

Why it's so important?

Instruments like snare drum can have a constant - 13 dB output level BUT just a single hit on snare can have clipping in very narrow range. Like 1kHz huge click while playing rimshot. And sometimes You check every track alone BUT when play together when at some point they have a boost in similar freq range they can cause clipping as well. Digital clip is like a hole in the book's page. You'll never know what has been written there because after 0 dB thee is no data space for audio. Tough to explain but this is how it works.

Because we work in the digital field there will be NO ADDITIONAL NOISE if You normalize the mix that has been done with low volume level. This can be easy fixed BUT...if there is a clipping - You can only "cheat" with compression, limiters etc so You won't see the red light. But it doesn't change the fact that those clipping points are destroying the mix...



ohh ok I understand now more. I don't seem to have any clipping. I can lower the track volumes?


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Darius Wave
post Mar 12 2014, 02:33 PM
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Yes. Doing this "just in case" will keep You safe from some issues You might not understand in 100% now, but You'll see through time passing smile.gif You use Drumkit from hell am I right?


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enlo22
post Mar 13 2014, 09:19 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Mar 12 2014, 01:33 PM) *
Yes. Doing this "just in case" will keep You safe from some issues You might not understand in 100% now, but You'll see through time passing smile.gif You use Drumkit from hell am I right?


yeah i'm using superior drummer with dfh

btw I found this recording and i love the tone of this, it sounds monstrous! https://soundcloud.com/fda-rekotz/lifeless-god-construct


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Darius Wave
post Mar 18 2014, 09:50 AM
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To be honest DFH is not a descent set. It was more metal than EZD but a bit too compressed and over-eq'ed. Never like it though. If You have Superrior there is one (probably not only) but perfect for metal pack is called "metal foundaries". There is one awesome kick that is bright but have no "plastic like" click. Of course it sound very natural and need some eq (like normal drums do) but You can get heavy, yet very natural tone of those. Are You able to use Superioir with "Metal Foundaries"?


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enlo22
post Mar 21 2014, 03:57 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Mar 18 2014, 08:50 AM) *
To be honest DFH is not a descent set. It was more metal than EZD but a bit too compressed and over-eq'ed. Never like it though. If You have Superrior there is one (probably not only) but perfect for metal pack is called "metal foundaries". There is one awesome kick that is bright but have no "plastic like" click. Of course it sound very natural and need some eq (like normal drums do) but You can get heavy, yet very natural tone of those. Are You able to use Superioir with "Metal Foundaries"?


hey man, Yeah I'll use the Metal Foundry , I'll have to learn how to use it!


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Darius Wave
post Mar 22 2014, 01:49 PM
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You know there is also very cool and way cheaper alternative called SSD4 Platinum. I'm ordering one to myself. Looks like it takes less ram, is much simplier in exploration + has much more tone in the pack. There is a promotion right now and it costs nothing to be honest comparing to the drum tones they give. My friend had made his demo in one of Polish studios. Engeneer used Steven Slate drums in that recording. They are perfect for modern metal tones. Check this out. I don't know how about You but I'm 100% I will purchase it next week smile.gif




http://www.stevenslatedrums.com/store/


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jstcrsn
post Mar 22 2014, 02:11 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Mar 22 2014, 01:49 PM) *
You know there is also very cool and way cheaper alternative called SSD4 Platinum. I'm ordering one to myself. Looks like it takes less ram, is much simplier in exploration + has much more tone in the pack. There is a promotion right now and it costs nothing to be honest comparing to the drum tones they give. My friend had made his demo in one of Polish studios. Engeneer used Steven Slate drums in that recording. They are perfect for modern metal tones. Check this out. I don't know how about You but I'm 100% I will purchase it next week smile.gif




http://www.stevenslatedrums.com/store/

this looks freakin killer, now on my list
still trying to get things going on my thread , just been to busy

QUOTE (enlo22 @ Mar 21 2014, 03:57 PM) *
hey man, Yeah I'll use the Metal Foundry , I'll have to learn how to use it!

your stuff is sounding good, both mixing and skill level
and the new Pic. -Freakin Metal
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Darius Wave
post Mar 22 2014, 06:45 PM
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Ok J waiting for Your reply in Your thread then smile.gif


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enlo22
post Mar 22 2014, 07:50 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Mar 22 2014, 12:49 PM) *
You know there is also very cool and way cheaper alternative called SSD4 Platinum. I'm ordering one to myself. Looks like it takes less ram, is much simplier in exploration + has much more tone in the pack. There is a promotion right now and it costs nothing to be honest comparing to the drum tones they give. My friend had made his demo in one of Polish studios. Engeneer used Steven Slate drums in that recording. They are perfect for modern metal tones. Check this out. I don't know how about You but I'm 100% I will purchase it next week smile.gif




http://www.stevenslatedrums.com/store/


sounds good man! I just got the Metal Foundry though tongue.gif!


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enlo22
post Mar 24 2014, 04:05 AM
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QUOTE (enlo22 @ Mar 22 2014, 06:50 PM) *
sounds good man! I just got the Metal Foundry though tongue.gif!



here's something new i've been working on, trying a few new things i've read etc..
https://soundcloud.com/enlo22/riff-idea-mp3

some of the playing is still a bit sloppy cause it's still a test lol
as always your critique is welcomed and appreciated smile.gif


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Darius Wave
post Mar 24 2014, 11:41 AM
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Metal Foundary is a great pack though! smile.gif

I will refer to what I told You at the beginning. There are several ways to get what You expect and a tons of tips to make the mix work. Unfortunately nothing guarantee anything at 100%. So let's try to get Your new setup. Let's start from the bass drum. Show me the tone of You bass drum alone and all the settings You already did smile.gif

Two very conclusions are:


1. A bit too bright rhythm guitars - taking some space of snare presence and kick attack
2. Nice solo tone and it's fit to the mix! smile.gif
3. Hidden drums - You got the guitars on the first plan but via huge drums volume loss instead of the frequency order to match spectrums of each instrument

But...not too much at one time. We don't wan't to get confused.

Let's get the bass drum done. Do You remember some very basic rules from the very first posts in Your thread ?


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enlo22
post Mar 24 2014, 02:57 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Mar 24 2014, 10:41 AM) *
Metal Foundary is a great pack though! smile.gif

I will refer to what I told You at the beginning. There are several ways to get what You expect and a tons of tips to make the mix work. Unfortunately nothing guarantee anything at 100%. So let's try to get Your new setup. Let's start from the bass drum. Show me the tone of You bass drum alone and all the settings You already did smile.gif

Two very conclusions are:


1. A bit too bright rhythm guitars - taking some space of snare presence and kick attack
2. Nice solo tone and it's fit to the mix! smile.gif
3. Hidden drums - You got the guitars on the first plan but via huge drums volume loss instead of the frequency order to match spectrums of each instrument

But...not too much at one time. We don't wan't to get confused.

Let's get the bass drum done. Do You remember some very basic rules from the very first posts in Your thread ?



I'm not sure on how to make the guitars less brighter tongue.gif
the solo tone I got from podfarm haha
as for the hidden drums problem, is it a volume problem?
i've attached the raw kick drum and the one with the eq's

i still remeber what we've talked about, i tried to apply it here based on some of the new things i read, I did the balancing the bass guitar and the kick drum trick you showed me by using span! smile.gif

This post has been edited by enlo22: Mar 24 2014, 02:59 PM
Attached File(s)
Attached File  kick_drum_raw.mp3 ( 145.15K ) Number of downloads: 28
Attached File  kick_drum_eq.mp3 ( 143.65K ) Number of downloads: 27
 


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Darius Wave
post Mar 26 2014, 11:29 AM
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Yes - it's always a volume issue tongue.gif BUT the question is - is a volume of the track or volume of specyfic frequency range tongue.gif


Usually it's better to check the track volume at first. It's easy to abuse eq and get to the point where You have too much of it used and still not getting the sound You need.

1. I think You're doing nice job with the bass drum so far smile.gif
2. I would make sure about the sample choice. Do You hear that little "plastic" attack cutting through the mix?

Maybe try with different sample od bass drum or just change the felt beater. Let me know the results so we could go further


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enlo22
post Mar 26 2014, 03:39 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Mar 26 2014, 10:29 AM) *
Yes - it's always a volume issue tongue.gif BUT the question is - is a volume of the track or volume of specyfic frequency range tongue.gif


Usually it's better to check the track volume at first. It's easy to abuse eq and get to the point where You have too much of it used and still not getting the sound You need.

1. I think You're doing nice job with the bass drum so far smile.gif
2. I would make sure about the sample choice. Do You hear that little "plastic" attack cutting through the mix?

Maybe try with different sample od bass drum or just change the felt beater. Let me know the results so we could go further



I changed some of the drums/ cymbals too , I used ez mixer for a test just on the master chain and worked on the volumes and on the eq's without abuse lol thing in the last 2 days so here's what i've got so far
Attached File(s)
Attached File  test.mp3 ( 1.38MB ) Number of downloads: 27
 


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Darius Wave
post Mar 26 2014, 04:38 PM
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I'll recheck at home. I think one of the bass drums in MEtal Foundary is outstanding in case of presence it's not "plastic". Over all mix has more energy now. We will still kep working on bass drum and snare because those are essentials smile.gif Will rechek on my monitors at home and lt You know smile.gif


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enlo22
post Mar 26 2014, 05:03 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Mar 26 2014, 03:38 PM) *
I'll recheck at home. I think one of the bass drums in MEtal Foundary is outstanding in case of presence it's not "plastic". Over all mix has more energy now. We will still kep working on bass drum and snare because those are essentials smile.gif Will rechek on my monitors at home and lt You know smile.gif


awesome man, looking forward to it lol I should probably buy monitors sometime.. but my interface does'nt support them lol


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