8 Pages V  « < 5 6 7 8 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Enlo22 - The Mighty Mixer Meister, mixing workshop
Darius Wave
post Mar 26 2014, 09:48 PM
Post #121


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 5.217
Joined: 29-November 12
From: Poland
Member No.: 17.069



I've rechecked things and seems like my favourite is 18x22" Tomas Haake kick

Now my EQ for it will look pretty scary but seems like it works for me. I made it to keep the balance between plastic, high middle attack and the presence needed in heavy playing


here is a sample of my drums tone (not a metal arrange but the sounds were matched for heavy playing)

Attached Image

Attached File  drums_sample.wav ( 1.73MB ) Number of downloads: 47







--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
enlo22
post Mar 27 2014, 11:43 PM
Post #122


Learning Guitar Hero
*

Group: Members
Posts: 413
Joined: 24-December 11
Member No.: 14.670



QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Mar 26 2014, 08:48 PM) *
I've rechecked things and seems like my favourite is 18x22" Tomas Haake kick

Now my EQ for it will look pretty scary but seems like it works for me. I made it to keep the balance between plastic, high middle attack and the presence needed in heavy playing


here is a sample of my drums tone (not a metal arrange but the sounds were matched for heavy playing)

Attached Image

Attached File  drums_sample.wav ( 1.73MB ) Number of downloads: 47


I'm using the Tomas Haake designer series 1 I put the eq like yours
i attached a sample of it on here, i'm using a compressor after it too
Attached File(s)
Attached File  test_.mp3 ( 127.21K ) Number of downloads: 27
 


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Darius Wave
post Mar 28 2014, 10:02 AM
Post #123


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 5.217
Joined: 29-November 12
From: Poland
Member No.: 17.069



Now a short explanation

between 100 and 200 Hz there is sort of "boomy" bass range that creates unpleasant bass drum attack on speakers with subbass (that's my humble opinion of course) I like to keep foot very low 62 Hz (3 point of EQ) is just compensation for the wide cut made by eq 2. This frequency will change due to different bass drum sample and it tune. Make sure where Your bass drum sample has a low attack (peak). I might be a difference of a few Hz up to 10 Hz. The idea is we boost (in this case just keep the level to it's natual position) the frequencies THAT ARE ALREADY THERE in the sample. We don't boost something that is "empty" or just a vey quiet harmonic. Make sure that eq 3 showed on my diagram is pointed correctly depending on the root frequency of Youre ass drum sample.

This huge cut made by eq 2 creates a lot of space for tom root notes Usually 100-250 Hz and guitars.

Now to keet "the fair play" - when we cut something in the bass drum track to make place for bass, guitars, and other mid-focused instruments, we have to make sure that we do not cover the rest of frequency range. In other words if bass drum has only treble to break through the mix, make sure other instrument will not be overloaded with treble. This will make bass drum clear in the mix and not affecting other instruments. But as mentioned ...the rule of respect work both directions.

Try to show me this new bass drum tone in a full mix.


Once we get done with the snare, we should go to the "stage in the mix" workshop" Reverb choice and setting is essential as well.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
enlo22
post Mar 28 2014, 04:43 PM
Post #124


Learning Guitar Hero
*

Group: Members
Posts: 413
Joined: 24-December 11
Member No.: 14.670



QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Mar 28 2014, 09:02 AM) *
Now a short explanation

between 100 and 200 Hz there is sort of "boomy" bass range that creates unpleasant bass drum attack on speakers with subbass (that's my humble opinion of course) I like to keep foot very low 62 Hz (3 point of EQ) is just compensation for the wide cut made by eq 2. This frequency will change due to different bass drum sample and it tune. Make sure where Your bass drum sample has a low attack (peak). I might be a difference of a few Hz up to 10 Hz. The idea is we boost (in this case just keep the level to it's natual position) the frequencies THAT ARE ALREADY THERE in the sample. We don't boost something that is "empty" or just a vey quiet harmonic. Make sure that eq 3 showed on my diagram is pointed correctly depending on the root frequency of Youre ass drum sample.

This huge cut made by eq 2 creates a lot of space for tom root notes Usually 100-250 Hz and guitars.

Now to keet "the fair play" - when we cut something in the bass drum track to make place for bass, guitars, and other mid-focused instruments, we have to make sure that we do not cover the rest of frequency range. In other words if bass drum has only treble to break through the mix, make sure other instrument will not be overloaded with treble. This will make bass drum clear in the mix and not affecting other instruments. But as mentioned ...the rule of respect work both directions.

Try to show me this new bass drum tone in a full mix.


Once we get done with the snare, we should go to the "stage in the mix" workshop" Reverb choice and setting is essential as well.


here's the full mix,
and what do you mean by "Root frequency"?


Attached File(s)
Attached File  test_.mp3 ( 319.11K ) Number of downloads: 26
 


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Darius Wave
post Apr 1 2014, 10:22 AM
Post #125


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 5.217
Joined: 29-November 12
From: Poland
Member No.: 17.069



Every note has it's main frequency (root) for example A (2nd fret, G string) has 440 Hz. Open A string has 220 Hz. When You guitar play in a key of A You will most likely see a lot of boost in the range between 200-250 Hz


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Darius Wave
post Apr 1 2014, 01:49 PM
Post #126


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 5.217
Joined: 29-November 12
From: Poland
Member No.: 17.069



Let's take a look at snare and it's reverb. Snare is very special care demanding instrument. Reverbs usually do half of those snare tone.

Please post me Your current snare setup


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
enlo22
post Apr 1 2014, 05:09 PM
Post #127


Learning Guitar Hero
*

Group: Members
Posts: 413
Joined: 24-December 11
Member No.: 14.670



QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Apr 1 2014, 12:49 PM) *
Let's take a look at snare and it's reverb. Snare is very special care demanding instrument. Reverbs usually do half of those snare tone.

Please post me Your current snare setup


I have the bottom and top snare, they both have the same reverb set up, I sent you the eq for one and the other one i'm using ez mix for.


Attached image(s)
Attached Image
 


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
enlo22
post Apr 2 2014, 04:35 AM
Post #128


Learning Guitar Hero
*

Group: Members
Posts: 413
Joined: 24-December 11
Member No.: 14.670



alright so I started using the TrackS3 on my guitars and on my kick drum, I copied your settings for the kick drum and now it sounds much better. Does using different eq's work better? like quality wise, the Tracks3 vs the one that comes with reaper? I used the same settings but it sounds much better to my ears lol

here's a link to how it sounds so far :

https://soundcloud.com/enlo22/work-in-progress

This post has been edited by enlo22: Apr 2 2014, 04:40 AM


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Darius Wave
post Apr 3 2014, 10:29 AM
Post #129


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 5.217
Joined: 29-November 12
From: Poland
Member No.: 17.069



Yes! Different EQ's might work different even if You add the same boost / cut amount. That's a very good notice!


About the snare. For metal playing personally I like to use high ratio values (4.0 and above) they help to pull out the attack much better with less treshold roll down.

Warning! It's very easy to destroy tone of the snare with too much compression. The more compressed snare , the more hidden harmonics. Maybe "click only" tone can be cool at the beginning but for long distance it makes snare sound thin like just hitting a cigar box with wooden stick. Of course some pro productions include that type of tone. Here we come with a choice of Yours. I give You 3 options to test:

1. Send both - top and bottom snare tracks from Superioir to one track of Reaper. Add eq and compression. Set the ratio to 4.0, set analyze to peak 100% (if available). Manually set the treshold until You hear snare becomes more punchy and then the "make up" or just call it "compressor out level" so You will hear the same volume of snare no matter if the compressor is on or off.

2. Send top and bottom snare to 2 separated tracks. Use the same EQ for both but...add compression only to the top snare track. Take some compressor tipc from point 1

3. Duplicate snare top track and turn on compressor on this copy. Use point 1 tips to set the compressor. You can destroy it's sound a bit more (more punchy = more attack, less body, less harmonics). You can do this because we will only use this track to add the "click" to snare, while previous 2 track will help us keep natural tone of the snare.

Advantage of trick 3# is that:

1. Tone keeps natural and get's more punch
2. You can always cut that copy and mute it for example at the moments of song where snare is being played softly, or when there is some rimshot (it's already very "peaky"


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
enlo22
post Apr 8 2014, 10:56 PM
Post #130


Learning Guitar Hero
*

Group: Members
Posts: 413
Joined: 24-December 11
Member No.: 14.670



QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Apr 3 2014, 09:29 AM) *
Yes! Different EQ's might work different even if You add the same boost / cut amount. That's a very good notice!


About the snare. For metal playing personally I like to use high ratio values (4.0 and above) they help to pull out the attack much better with less treshold roll down.

Warning! It's very easy to destroy tone of the snare with too much compression. The more compressed snare , the more hidden harmonics. Maybe "click only" tone can be cool at the beginning but for long distance it makes snare sound thin like just hitting a cigar box with wooden stick. Of course some pro productions include that type of tone. Here we come with a choice of Yours. I give You 3 options to test:

1. Send both - top and bottom snare tracks from Superioir to one track of Reaper. Add eq and compression. Set the ratio to 4.0, set analyze to peak 100% (if available). Manually set the treshold until You hear snare becomes more punchy and then the "make up" or just call it "compressor out level" so You will hear the same volume of snare no matter if the compressor is on or off.

2. Send top and bottom snare to 2 separated tracks. Use the same EQ for both but...add compression only to the top snare track. Take some compressor tipc from point 1

3. Duplicate snare top track and turn on compressor on this copy. Use point 1 tips to set the compressor. You can destroy it's sound a bit more (more punchy = more attack, less body, less harmonics). You can do this because we will only use this track to add the "click" to snare, while previous 2 track will help us keep natural tone of the snare.

Advantage of trick 3# is that:

1. Tone keeps natural and get's more punch
2. You can always cut that copy and mute it for example at the moments of song where snare is being played softly, or when there is some rimshot (it's already very "peaky"


alright man, I did the snare! and also I borrowed my friends bass so I ould actually record using the bass, here's the track with the snare using option 2 from the ones you told me to try and using a real bass lol

Attached File(s)
Attached File  test_.wav ( 5.59MB ) Number of downloads: 32
 


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Darius Wave
post Apr 9 2014, 01:15 PM
Post #131


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 5.217
Joined: 29-November 12
From: Poland
Member No.: 17.069




My first impression is - we need to get rid of that "dry" feeling of drums

Great You could use real bass! It really makes the difference smile.gif

Maybe try to hide the bass drum a bit. I think it stand out above the other instruments too much. I would try some tiny cut like - 2 dB o0f it's volume

I would also consider changes in arrange. When You have the ride cymbal playing the whole overhead lacks power. Maybe it's wort trying to find different hit sample (different note = tone) or different cymbal sample (other model of ride). I'm sure You feel that those parts with ride miss something

Now about the snare

We need to make more live.

Create a FX channel with a reverb. Set the reverb mix to 100% wet. One of my favourite reverbs is MVerb (it's free) it's easy to add reverb without making the mix muddy / blurred. Snare usually nice smaller "room size" and more high cut off + we usually add a lot of reverb to the snare track to make it sound ok.

How do You send drums to the DAW tracks? Every snare track from Superior has a separate Reaper channel or you do like I do - send all snare track to one DAW track for easier control?



Now let's start from the basics


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
enlo22
post Apr 9 2014, 08:38 PM
Post #132


Learning Guitar Hero
*

Group: Members
Posts: 413
Joined: 24-December 11
Member No.: 14.670



QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Apr 9 2014, 12:15 PM) *
My first impression is - we need to get rid of that "dry" feeling of drums

Great You could use real bass! It really makes the difference smile.gif

Maybe try to hide the bass drum a bit. I think it stand out above the other instruments too much. I would try some tiny cut like - 2 dB o0f it's volume

I would also consider changes in arrange. When You have the ride cymbal playing the whole overhead lacks power. Maybe it's wort trying to find different hit sample (different note = tone) or different cymbal sample (other model of ride). I'm sure You feel that those parts with ride miss something

Now about the snare

We need to make more live.

Create a FX channel with a reverb. Set the reverb mix to 100% wet. One of my favourite reverbs is MVerb (it's free) it's easy to add reverb without making the mix muddy / blurred. Snare usually nice smaller "room size" and more high cut off + we usually add a lot of reverb to the snare track to make it sound ok.

How do You send drums to the DAW tracks? Every snare track from Superior has a separate Reaper channel or you do like I do - send all snare track to one DAW track for easier control?



Now let's start from the basics



I send the track multi output and it has 2 snare tracks into reaper. I did the reverb using the plug in it came with reaper. I downloaded the one you told me to use but i didn't understand it too well lol, do you have a good setting for the reverb you told me to download? that way i can start from there? as for the Ride cymbal i think i hadn't adjusted the velocity yet!


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Darius Wave
post Apr 10 2014, 12:59 PM
Post #133


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 5.217
Joined: 29-November 12
From: Poland
Member No.: 17.069



I tried some verbs from reaper but couldn't find anything useful within 20 minutes :/ I'll try to make You a sample


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Darius Wave
post Apr 10 2014, 03:22 PM
Post #134


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 5.217
Joined: 29-November 12
From: Poland
Member No.: 17.069



I did just a quick setup (got to review it on home gear). I made You reaper session so You can check out the settings.


Sorry for the unnecessary samples added. I needed any snare to test things but I had to send it so You could see how it works in the session. Could You send we whole sesion with Your files? smile.gif Would be easier. I would refer to reaper since now smile.gif

Attached File  snare_sample.zip ( 18.49MB ) Number of downloads: 23


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
enlo22
post Apr 10 2014, 03:46 PM
Post #135


Learning Guitar Hero
*

Group: Members
Posts: 413
Joined: 24-December 11
Member No.: 14.670



QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Apr 10 2014, 02:22 PM) *
I did just a quick setup (got to review it on home gear). I made You reaper session so You can check out the settings.


Sorry for the unnecessary samples added. I needed any snare to test things but I had to send it so You could see how it works in the session. Could You send we whole sesion with Your files? smile.gif Would be easier. I would refer to reaper since now smile.gif

Attached File  snare_sample.zip ( 18.49MB ) Number of downloads: 23


hey man, i downloaded the files, now i'm not sure what i'm supposed to do when them :/ I opened it and saw the settings for MV, what should I do with the snare samples?

I listened to the samples on reaper actually!
but yeah I used your settings and here's how it sounds so far

This post has been edited by enlo22: Apr 10 2014, 04:08 PM
Attached File(s)
Attached File  snare_test.wav ( 3.96MB ) Number of downloads: 25
 


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Darius Wave
post Apr 21 2014, 01:55 PM
Post #136


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 5.217
Joined: 29-November 12
From: Poland
Member No.: 17.069



Snare is still too Dark for metal music. Try to add some high frequencies on the "snare top" track. You can add some more reverb as well.

I would strongly recommend to rearrange cymbals. It's a feeling of drums being very dry. You can add some more crash accents if You really want to have this ride cymbal as a main cymbal there


Tip for hi hat:

Usually there is already much of hi hat on the overhead and room tracks. Mut the hi-=hat track (roll down the volume to zero) to see if the other cymbals volume is ok. Then go back to hi hat track and add just a tiny amount so You will heqar You don't have the hi hat to loud comparing to other cymbals.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
enlo22
post Apr 29 2014, 01:04 AM
Post #137


Learning Guitar Hero
*

Group: Members
Posts: 413
Joined: 24-December 11
Member No.: 14.670



QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Apr 21 2014, 12:55 PM) *
Snare is still too Dark for metal music. Try to add some high frequencies on the "snare top" track. You can add some more reverb as well.

I would strongly recommend to rearrange cymbals. It's a feeling of drums being very dry. You can add some more crash accents if You really want to have this ride cymbal as a main cymbal there


Tip for hi hat:

Usually there is already much of hi hat on the overhead and room tracks. Mut the hi-=hat track (roll down the volume to zero) to see if the other cymbals volume is ok. Then go back to hi hat track and add just a tiny amount so You will heqar You don't have the hi hat to loud comparing to other cymbals.


hey Darius, are we still doing this thread or not anymore? I wasn't sure!


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Darius Wave
post Apr 29 2014, 09:44 AM
Post #138


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 5.217
Joined: 29-November 12
From: Poland
Member No.: 17.069



As I wrote in the message smile.gif We can continue smile.gif Just give me a bit more time for responses till now smile.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
enlo22
post May 4 2014, 06:17 PM
Post #139


Learning Guitar Hero
*

Group: Members
Posts: 413
Joined: 24-December 11
Member No.: 14.670



QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Apr 29 2014, 08:44 AM) *
As I wrote in the message smile.gif We can continue smile.gif Just give me a bit more time for responses till now smile.gif


hey darius Idk if you checked it out but here's what I came up with afterwards https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxyXhx-BWhI still need more work on the mixing lol, i'm listening to your Odysseus post right now smile.gif I really like it, it's got cool rythms and nice lead parts. Also the mixing in that sounds GREAT lol.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Darius Wave
post May 8 2014, 06:28 PM
Post #140


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 5.217
Joined: 29-November 12
From: Poland
Member No.: 17.069



Thank You Marco! Trust me - even with a lot of mixing knowledge it's still never ending story to get the sound You want...and always time taking smile.gif Thank You for appreciating a lot of effort I put into composition and mixing


As for Your mixing it's getting better but we still have to a lot of work to make it more organic. Drums are still to dry. We have to keep focusing on details and do it slowly because it's hard to make those tweaks in the "Remote mode" ...more time taking smile.gif

Let's make a few very very tiny tweaks to see what happens with the mix.

1. I thnk overhead track is covering the guitars to much. Try to set the HPF higher - leave just the "hash" of cymbals. Remember - it's not about making each instrument sound good alone, but to make everything work together. I think there is still to much midrange in the cymbals. Tell me one thing...are You using only ONE STEREO TRACK for both - over and room or You also use tracks of each cymbal ?

2. Add 2 or 3 dB to bass guitar volume

3. Add a cut around 1 kHz - 4 to 5 dBs on snare track


4. Add more reverb on snare


You main problem in the mix is that drums still have too much middle. We have to scoop them out a lot and find them "a new place" in the very treble end


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

8 Pages V  « < 5 6 7 8 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 21st January 2017 - 06:43 PM