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> Enlo22 - The Mighty Mixer Meister, mixing workshop
Darius Wave
post Jan 2 2014, 10:13 PM
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I can't see other eq values (only the high pass of 1 point) What is exact value of 500 Hz cut? And...
at 2:28 of our reference recording You have a perfect moment to fit the guitar tone.


Important. Once we got the sketch there is a "war of details". It sounds much simple than it is in real but... Now let's search for the balance by messing between tracks volume and eq values.

Example: If You cut one more dB on the 500Hz EQ then increase the track volume (You can try similar value).

At the moment I would give back 1db from the 500 Hz cut and decrease each track volume with 1 dB.


That's how we find the balance. There are different techniques. This is just one of them.

Basic idea is...If You feel there is not enough treble in guitar tone....You can make whole guitar track louder until You hear the treble in the mix AND...cut a few dB's of the other frequencies - lows and mids.

Another idea -
Guitar seems to sound quite good but only little details are annoying...like some high mids in Your case. Try to experiment with midrange cut point (for example try to move it between 400 and 600 Hz, or try to set very tiny value change to Q parameter of this cut.

In Your case moving the mids cut could be a cool solution too.

Also.

1. Please send me both guitars raw track (no fx no ex) it can be a stereo mixdown of both)
2. Send me another mix after Your experiments with guitars.


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enlo22
post Jan 21 2014, 04:37 AM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Jan 2 2014, 09:13 PM) *
I can't see other eq values (only the high pass of 1 point) What is exact value of 500 Hz cut? And...
at 2:28 of our reference recording You have a perfect moment to fit the guitar tone.


Important. Once we got the sketch there is a "war of details". It sounds much simple than it is in real but... Now let's search for the balance by messing between tracks volume and eq values.

Example: If You cut one more dB on the 500Hz EQ then increase the track volume (You can try similar value).

At the moment I would give back 1db from the 500 Hz cut and decrease each track volume with 1 dB.


That's how we find the balance. There are different techniques. This is just one of them.

Basic idea is...If You feel there is not enough treble in guitar tone....You can make whole guitar track louder until You hear the treble in the mix AND...cut a few dB's of the other frequencies - lows and mids.

Another idea -
Guitar seems to sound quite good but only little details are annoying...like some high mids in Your case. Try to experiment with midrange cut point (for example try to move it between 400 and 600 Hz, or try to set very tiny value change to Q parameter of this cut.

In Your case moving the mids cut could be a cool solution too.

Also.

1. Please send me both guitars raw track (no fx no ex) it can be a stereo mixdown of both)
2. Send me another mix after Your experiments with guitars.


here is the print screen for the eq. and i'm uploading the tracks to sound cloud because it says not enough space

https://soundcloud.com/enlo22 the first 3 are the ones that you needed smile.gif


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Darius Wave
post Jan 23 2014, 02:32 PM
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could You try to move low pass filter a bit lower? I think we could cut a bit more from 5-6k Hz


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enlo22
post Jan 31 2014, 08:29 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Jan 23 2014, 01:32 PM) *
could You try to move low pass filter a bit lower? I think we could cut a bit more from 5-6k Hz


ok I did the Low pass filter thing tongue.gif and here's my mix, for some reason it never lets me upload it here anymore it says it's too large of a file, even though it's a short clip :/

https://soundcloud.com/enlo22/test-1


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Darius Wave
post Jan 31 2014, 09:31 PM
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How do You feel about decreasing the guitar volume? I think we could add some bass volume as well.


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enlo22
post Feb 2 2014, 02:07 AM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Jan 31 2014, 08:31 PM) *
How do You feel about decreasing the guitar volume? I think we could add some bass volume as well.



https://soundcloud.com/enlo22/test-2

here's the new track


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jstcrsn
post Feb 2 2014, 11:48 AM
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QUOTE (enlo22 @ Jan 31 2014, 08:29 PM) *
ok I did the Low pass filter thing tongue.gif and here's my mix, for some reason it never lets me upload it here anymore it says it's too large of a file, even though it's a short clip :/

https://soundcloud.com/enlo22/test-1

thats because you have uploaded your limit, if you go into your controls you can delete old stuff , but it will delete it thru out GMC

this is soundin pretty rockin
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Darius Wave
post Feb 2 2014, 11:56 AM
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Thanx for additional info jsctrn.

Elno - can I have a longer part of the song? I would like to hear some more cymbals. We need to add some air to the drums.
Snare is a very loud instrument and it usually affects the room reflections very much while through the mic You don't get that as much so...we usually add a bit different settings for snare reverb.

I need You to create 3 fx channels with the same reverb. We will add different settings for
1. Bass drum - low cut off and very short decay/time to not muddy the mix but keep a feeling of drum bass being played in the rom as well.
2. Overheads - short time, hig cut and huge low cut. Also short time to avoid mess in the mix
3. Snare - Full reverb - maybe with a bit higher predelay value and a little high cut but this one we will leave pretty natural. Make shure all reverbs has the same "room size".


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enlo22
post Feb 3 2014, 06:33 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Feb 2 2014, 10:56 AM) *
Thanx for additional info jsctrn.

Elno - can I have a longer part of the song? I would like to hear some more cymbals. We need to add some air to the drums.
Snare is a very loud instrument and it usually affects the room reflections very much while through the mic You don't get that as much so...we usually add a bit different settings for snare reverb.

I need You to create 3 fx channels with the same reverb. We will add different settings for
1. Bass drum - low cut off and very short decay/time to not muddy the mix but keep a feeling of drum bass being played in the rom as well.
2. Overheads - short time, hig cut and huge low cut. Also short time to avoid mess in the mix
3. Snare - Full reverb - maybe with a bit higher predelay value and a little high cut but this one we will leave pretty natural. Make shure all reverbs has the same "room size".



here's a longer part!
Attached File(s)
Attached File  test.wav ( 4.54MB ) Number of downloads: 46
 


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Darius Wave
post Feb 6 2014, 11:42 AM
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it's still too short...is this everything for this composition You have by the moment? smile.gif I'masking because I need different dynamics in drums, different cymbals to make sure about a few details smile.gif


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enlo22
post Feb 10 2014, 05:49 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Feb 6 2014, 10:42 AM) *
it's still too short...is this everything for this composition You have by the moment? smile.gif I'masking because I need different dynamics in drums, different cymbals to make sure about a few details smile.gif


here is a longer part! i tried to get more drums in there
Attached File(s)
Attached File  test.wav ( 10.38MB ) Number of downloads: 60
 


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Darius Wave
post Feb 10 2014, 07:45 PM
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Ok. I think we need to give some more body to the drums I need You to send me screens of bass drums eq and snare drum eq. You can also send me the raw tracks of snare and bass drum so I could suggest some eq-ing


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enlo22
post Feb 11 2014, 12:03 AM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Feb 10 2014, 06:45 PM) *
Ok. I think we need to give some more body to the drums I need You to send me screens of bass drums eq and snare drum eq. You can also send me the raw tracks of snare and bass drum so I could suggest some eq-ing



there are the 3 files smile.gif hopefully you can help me out more!
Attached image(s)
Attached Image Attached Image
 

Attached File(s)
Attached File  test.wav ( 2.6MB ) Number of downloads: 36
 


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enlo22
post Feb 18 2014, 05:43 PM
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QUOTE (enlo22 @ Feb 10 2014, 11:03 PM) *
there are the 3 files smile.gif hopefully you can help me out more!


hey darius did you get my reply??


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Darius Wave
post Feb 19 2014, 10:58 AM
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Thanx for update Elno! Somehow I missed Your previous response. I'll check those files in the evening in my home studio and we'll push the work further


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Darius Wave
post Feb 19 2014, 07:07 PM
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Unfortunately it's easy to abuse the EQ - it happened in both - snare and the bass drum.


1. Bass drum - way to much high frequencies You took a very wide range of EQ and boost it a lot. If we place to much bass drum and snare attack in the overhead frequency range then it will still be not clear enough in the mix. Best way is to look at the SPAN for frequencies that are already there smile.gif For example there migh be some quiet (low level) peaks in the 7-8 kHz. You can try to bost that range a bit


Snare is very thin but we will leave it until we fix the bass drum.

In Metal bass drum and snare drums has a lot of treble indeed but...it's bosted as much as You did (at least not above 10 kHz)

We have 2 options:
1. Turn off that huge, wide bost of treble and find a sweet spot according to raw drum bass track frequency diagram
2. Add low pass filter to the eq settings we already have. I made some tests. I used Your track and added LPF at around 10 kHz) and it does the job but...it's shape has a lot to do with it. Different curve will need slightly different point of cut.

Good news: We have pretty good order in the lows + clearance in the midddle. I would not touch mid and low eq settings anymore for now. I would focus on getting good bass drum attack without killing us with that huge amount of very high frequencies


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enlo22
post Feb 19 2014, 08:37 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Feb 19 2014, 06:07 PM) *
Unfortunately it's easy to abuse the EQ - it happened in both - snare and the bass drum.


1. Bass drum - way to much high frequencies You took a very wide range of EQ and boost it a lot. If we place to much bass drum and snare attack in the overhead frequency range then it will still be not clear enough in the mix. Best way is to look at the SPAN for frequencies that are already there smile.gif For example there migh be some quiet (low level) peaks in the 7-8 kHz. You can try to bost that range a bit


Snare is very thin but we will leave it until we fix the bass drum.

In Metal bass drum and snare drums has a lot of treble indeed but...it's bosted as much as You did (at least not above 10 kHz)

We have 2 options:
1. Turn off that huge, wide bost of treble and find a sweet spot according to raw drum bass track frequency diagram
2. Add low pass filter to the eq settings we already have. I made some tests. I used Your track and added LPF at around 10 kHz) and it does the job but...it's shape has a lot to do with it. Different curve will need slightly different point of cut.

Good news: We have pretty good order in the lows + clearance in the midddle. I would not touch mid and low eq settings anymore for now. I would focus on getting good bass drum attack without killing us with that huge amount of very high frequencies


ok I did the LPF at 10k and it does sound better, I still don't know how to read the span very well, like I don't know what adjustments i have to make based on what it shows me.
For example, I wouldn't have done anything with the bass drum treble unless you said something about it, I don't know how to realize those changes on my own.

QUOTE (enlo22 @ Feb 19 2014, 07:33 PM) *
ok I did the LPF at 10k and it does sound better, I still don't know how to read the span very well, like I don't know what adjustments i have to make based on what it shows me.
For example, I wouldn't have done anything with the bass drum treble unless you said something about it, I don't know how to realize those changes on my own.


Attached File(s)
Attached File  test.wav ( 4.54MB ) Number of downloads: 38
 


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Darius Wave
post Mar 4 2014, 12:20 AM
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The more You spend time on mixing and the more attention You put to the details, You start to hear those with time. It's not something You will get "just like that". For example. Maybe You would not notice that high end problem in bass drum now , but You will already have a clue while doing any further mixes and You will not ask me again because You will have sort of sketch of how the bass drum could sound for Your music smile.gif Problem of listening to whole mixes is the ilussion - just like with guitars. You hear lot's of lows in the guitars while listening to the mix but this illusion is created buy good match of guit, bass and bass drum smile.gif

Using analyzer is a lesson itself. This knowledge will come with time. It's rather the method "I hear something is too much, so i search for precise frequency range". We are not able to make perfect mix just by watching the analyzer - it's not a substitute. It only helps to search for the precise frequencies smile.gif

Mixing always work both ways:
If You miss something in tone of instrument 1 You can boost it BUT ...usually at first it's more efficeint to see if cutting the same range in instrument 2 will make a space for it. Just like we did with the bass drum and bass. We where not trying to make endless bass drum boost - we found it's sweet spot and took it off from the bass guitar smile.gif


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enlo22
post Mar 5 2014, 02:46 AM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Mar 3 2014, 11:20 PM) *
The more You spend time on mixing and the more attention You put to the details, You start to hear those with time. It's not something You will get "just like that". For example. Maybe You would not notice that high end problem in bass drum now , but You will already have a clue while doing any further mixes and You will not ask me again because You will have sort of sketch of how the bass drum could sound for Your music smile.gif Problem of listening to whole mixes is the ilussion - just like with guitars. You hear lot's of lows in the guitars while listening to the mix but this illusion is created buy good match of guit, bass and bass drum smile.gif

Using analyzer is a lesson itself. This knowledge will come with time. It's rather the method "I hear something is too much, so i search for precise frequency range". We are not able to make perfect mix just by watching the analyzer - it's not a substitute. It only helps to search for the precise frequencies smile.gif

Mixing always work both ways:
If You miss something in tone of instrument 1 You can boost it BUT ...usually at first it's more efficeint to see if cutting the same range in instrument 2 will make a space for it. Just like we did with the bass drum and bass. We where not trying to make endless bass drum boost - we found it's sweet spot and took it off from the bass guitar smile.gif



ahh makes more sense, i'm glad that the mixing is making more sense. do you have anymore advise as for tweaking this one more?


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Darius Wave
post Mar 5 2014, 12:01 PM
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OIf course...there is still a lot of those biggrin.gif Let's talk about the gain stages mentioned by tonymiro.

Gainstage as a term is nothing more then the gain level / levels. The basic idea is

WE DON';T WANT TO HAVE ANY SINGLE CLIP EITHER ON EVERY SINGLE TRACK OR THE WHOLE MIX.

Most of mixing guys work on very low volumes of the tracks to be sure that whole mix will not have any clipping. In my case I usually start at -12 to -15 dB volume setting on every track. While mixing You will here Your daw session is very quiet comparing to the mastered music You listen to.

Even if You took the time to avoid clipping while recording (no single clip at input) the it's still easy to make whole mix clipping and
in case of digital clip is like a "no information, no data at the moment" it was a bit different with analog tapes etc".

How does Your volume and gain (input levels) look in the session?

BTW...compressor cut the signal but will never remove the clipping if it has been ecorded with clipping.


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