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> Elhombre - Mixing Skills Tweaking
Darius Wave
post Nov 13 2013, 09:42 AM
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Hey man!

Nice to find You interest in some mixing help. Before we go any further I need very detailed list of the gear (PC, audio interface, guitar, amp , effects) and software You use. Including plug-ins. What DAW You use, What platform...PC or Mac? Please add some preview mixdown of the song You would like to work on


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ElHombre
post Nov 13 2013, 06:12 PM
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Hello smile.gif

Reaper running on high quality PC
Axe FX recording via USB

Guitars, Ibanez Rg7, Suhr modern
Plugins/programs, Ezdrummer, few synth programs.

Here I show you my latest recording: https://soundcloud.com/erik93/newsongnov1-01
Now, I added no compressor in the axe fx, it sounds stronger but now its more messy

Nothing done but 2 recordings of the rif, panned


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Darius Wave
post Nov 13 2013, 08:05 PM
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Ok. Very first thing for the music You play You will need to prepare some money for superior drummer + metal foundaries pack. Believe me...I spent years with Simple EZD and i thought tons of tricks with mixing drums...but NEVER was able to get metal matched tone out of them. Of course there are some tips to make it sound better but alwasy something missing. In case of drums the raw tracks and sound of the drum itself is 80% of the tone. 20% is usually compression, midrange tweaks and adding room to get beck that natural feel.
To be clear...I love EZD sounds for a few genres of music but metal ain't one of those smile.gif


You got very nice gear for recording guitars. Now it's time to take a care about Your drums.

Before doing this You could try some tweaks that will work for sure helping even the basic EZD version.

First of all - using EZD multitrack option instead of one midi track with full mix (Of course If You haven't found this already) Give an info about it

Second thing. Metal drums are usually ultra sucked from the mids (they have their space a bit above the guitars in the mix. So we need things to be bright. Instead of adding treble it's better to cut the mids. Also this will make space for guitars without hidding the drums way to deep under everything else.

We have to make very little steps.

First of all - there are many ways to get nice sound. We will only try a few:

Let's start from the snare - add compression plug-in to the signal chain / track / insert . Set-up 4:0 ratio or higher. Set the attack to a around 10 ms and similar with release this will leave the hit of the stick and make the snare tone harder, more pomped out. Experiment with Treshold until You find the snare keeps sounding like snare but it becomes heavier - You will hear extra punch. Sometimes those could be very extreme treshold values - -30 db and similar - matter of other volume settings in the ezd tracks.

Of course I asume EZD works in multitrack option and You send top mic of the snare to single track and bottom snare to another.

I suaulle use simialr eq for bottom and top snare tracks but...I don't compress bottom mic to keep natural springs tone. When You adjust the compression on the snare top track, then try to find good volume balance between top and bottom tracks (DAW tracks, not EZD mixer!) I usually setup the volume of top snare track to the rest of mix and after this I add the bottom track volume until I hear it but not to much, to not destroy the punch. Try to experiment and send me resultsw in full mix. We will verify. make corrections and go to other instruments of drum set



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ElHombre
post Nov 13 2013, 08:16 PM
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Okay
Some intresting stuff to dig into there.

Could you also please comment on how I make my guitars more powerful?

Right now, just the tone, played 2 times, 2 track panned each way


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Darius Wave
post Nov 13 2013, 10:35 PM
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QUOTE (ElHombre @ Nov 13 2013, 08:16 PM) *
Okay
Some intresting stuff to dig into there.

Could you also please comment on how I make my guitars more powerful?

Right now, just the tone, played 2 times, 2 track panned each way



This is ok...but very often people missunderstood the source of "why I think my guitars sound not enough powerfull". Usually the punch is focus on perfect bass, bass drum and guitars mix. Otherwise even if You have tons of low end on Your guitars, it still can sound poor. To prove we need to fix drums and bass first. In Your guitars it would be probably w very simple mid scoop - around 500 Hz, wide Q and abour 5 -8 dB. It does make a difference. I would even cut some lows - guitars sound boomy. They steal some space for bass and bass drum


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ElHombre
post Dec 2 2013, 02:12 AM
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A thing keeping me from writing drums is also cause, I dont know **** about drums smile.gif
Its like a nuclear physics teatcher telling me to do some reasearch you know.

Also the language thing, I have no idea. What is a "snare drum" for example.
How do drummer play drums and so on, I have no idea mate.

I dont even posess this knowledge, how can I then write drums

Thats the thing about home recording
I got to learn how to be a sound engineer, how to be bassist, a keyboard player, a drum player
All at once while trying to fit in 5 hour guitar pratice each day



My trying to record bass/writing drums

This post has been edited by ElHombre: Dec 2 2013, 02:16 AM


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Darius Wave
post Dec 2 2013, 09:22 AM
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Believe me but this is exactly the way it is ! smile.gif To make good mixes Your really have to understand some basic of other instruments. Otherwise even with best ever plug-ins You migh get artificial tone - for example wirtting the drums like the player has 4 hands (makin tremolo on snare drums + playing cymbals a t the same time). Same with writting violins etc.

That's a long way to go through but no one makes You must do this fast. Take as much time as You need. YES - include it in some of Your practice routines. There is no other way. Even if You use some "Ready grooves" someday You will find there is NOT evertyhing You would expect.


Let's start from the very basics, step by step...I mean very little steps (no one said Your have to learn this withina week wink.gif

Bass drum is...the biggest drum in the set..."boom boom" drum I would said tongue.gif
Snare drum is second, most important drum in the set - the one with springs on the bottom.

Those two make the groove wink.gif Can You post a screen of Your midi drawing window?


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ElHombre
post Dec 3 2013, 01:19 AM
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I will get suprior drummer first cause its better right?
I will try it first using a certain site if u know what i mean, then if i learn to write drums ill buy it i guess and if i like it


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Darius Wave
post Dec 3 2013, 03:36 PM
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Yep I know what You mean smile.gif Good decission! Superior has awesome sounds for rock/metal mixes


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Darius Wave
post Dec 3 2013, 08:46 PM
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Time to mix the drums (again very simple and not a "must" tips that will help You get started)

There are some very cool toturials. I alwasy did search for some of those and still keep doing - You never know what cool tips can be found there.



What shoulkd You focus at is a example of frequency range and depth = width of those cuts over particular drum set instrument. Of course it works different in each case but usually for metal mixing it would great starting point.


Take a look at how to cut overheads (low pass filter) and how to take of some boxy mid range from bass drum and snare. Watch it carefully at least a few times



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ElHombre
post Dec 4 2013, 05:25 PM
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Ok lets work on writing drums.
Well what do I now? Not much so I experimented.
Slowly with a riff.

Well what could be cool, well if the kick does the same as the chugging maybe.
I dont know if its wrong to do that.

I recorded with computer keyboard so timing is off completetly but u get the idea


So problem now.
I used drum and snare, I dont know what else to use and I dont know how to put these things in a context.
How do I write drums? Right now I recorded snare and kick separtley
And multitracking doesnt work for me
I cant get the things recroded you know, only shown as loops, not actual recordings.

Should I make them with keyboard or write them in a midi editor?
Attached File(s)
Attached File  1somedrums.mp3 ( 409.79K ) Number of downloads: 61
 


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Darius Wave
post Dec 4 2013, 09:36 PM
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I';m sorry because I also have the elno thread and I mistake the topics....this was for him...we're not that far...but we would go to this cids anyway so it's nice to go through it to smile.gif


Going back to main topic...my drums recordings looked exactly the same when I did my first try smile.gif

You have to be good on keyboard, to be able to play good drums with Your hands. I'm not...that's why I use drawing option.

Do You already know how to use drawing midi tools in Your Daw? I mean....how to manually draw notes and replay them?


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ElHombre
post Dec 4 2013, 11:10 PM
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Im going to make a little video and show u


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ElHombre
post Dec 4 2013, 11:57 PM
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Okay this is a lot at once and not such a good video but, try to answer the areas smile.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kml_s01_mcQ

Okay. I attachted the riffs as well.
Start of in 4/4. Comes into a short 7/4 sections. End riff was bad recorded, its in 4/4 as well.
Okay so what drums can we use for these riffs.

Well I dont like that Djent style so much, but It does have pretty cool drums that accents the riffs in different ways.
Anyway to start of with. What should the kick play.

Well I might be very wrong here but wouldnt it be cool if it goes along with the "chugging"
And how would I arrange for the snare and other parts of the drum?

This post has been edited by ElHombre: Dec 4 2013, 11:58 PM
Attached File(s)
Attached File  Riffing2.1.mp3 ( 2.05MB ) Number of downloads: 58
 


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Darius Wave
post Dec 5 2013, 02:17 PM
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Yes - kick supporting guitar chugging is one of many ways to go. You can always start from basic groove like kick on the 1 - 3 beats, snare on the 2 - 4 beat and hihat going in 8th notes or 16th notes (all notes in the bar). Making this a basis You can move the blocks of drawing to hear what effect it might give. Making advanced drums is always time taking no matter how good You are in making drawings.


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ElHombre
post Dec 10 2013, 11:17 PM
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Okay. Can you show me a printscreen on your drawer of what this might look like?
Also check my video am I supposed to edit midi like that? smile.gif


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jstcrsn
post Dec 11 2013, 01:23 AM
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QUOTE (ElHombre @ Dec 3 2013, 01:19 AM) *
I will get suprior drummer first cause its better right?
I will try it first using a certain site if u know what i mean, then if i learn to write drums ill buy it i guess and if i like it

I am following this as well , hope you don't mind
don't know what you mean so if you could pm me, thanks
and this has helped alot n!
pay special attention to copy and pasting tool, I have found that if I find my tempo, make a basic kick and snare and then just copy and paste until I have enough to track, I will then lay down a quick guitar track that will allow mw to write in extra drums/ accents( or erase)
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Darius Wave
post Dec 11 2013, 10:26 AM
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no worries man wink.gif Thanx for posting the toturial. Unfortunately drawing drums looks a bit different in each DAW...even if the main mechnism looks similar smile.gif


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ElHombre
post Feb 1 2014, 05:28 PM
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great jtscrn, gonna check it out



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Darius Wave
post Feb 2 2014, 11:59 AM
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Let me know about the results wink.gif


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