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> "best" Headphones For Mixing/recording?
Todd Simpson
post Nov 20 2013, 03:07 AM
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As Mr. Miro points out in the post below, and as I mentioned previously, it's a good idea to check your mix on a variety of speakers/playback systems to see how the mix translates. However, you mentioned in your post previously though that you were "mixing" on the Yamaha speakers in question? I was asserting that mixing on any kind of home audio/hifi speakers is just not a great idea if it can be at all avoided IMHO sad.gif

As far as the NS series, as I mentioned previously, the old NS10s were used quite a bit and still are, even though they are harsh. Many studios did use the KLEENEX COVERED TWEETER trick to try to reduce this. The NS10M fixed most of this and the latest version (see previous post with pictures) are much better. They were so harsh people had to cover the tweeters or the mix would not "translate" well. So please don't misunderstand me here. I"m not bagging on them in any way. So I"m NOT saying "it's no excuse for us mixing guys" or anything like that. Just pointing out the history of those speakers and based on the model you mentioned previously, drawing a correlation to the harsh sound. smile.gif

As I mentioned also, people in pro facilities will often use a small pair of speakers such as the AURATONE (tiny little cubes that sound very bad) to see how a mix sounds on really poor playback systems. Each of these playback systems is important in creating a balanced mix. They are all essential parts of the puzzle. As MERTAY mentioned, that's why you see them in pro studios such as the engineer he was talking about. So it seems we are on the same exact page here but but you seem to be arguing the point?

Anyhoo, smile.gif As many folks reading these threads are still building their own home studio, I think it's important to share some established principles while acknowledging the fact that as you mention, "everyone has their own way".

So to sum up smile.gif


1.)Don't mix/master on home/hifi/laptop speakers if at all possible.
2.)Try to get one pair of decent near field studio monitors (4 to 8 inch woofer, KRK, ALESIS, etc. as mentioned)
3.)Try to get one pair of decent headphones (previous mentioned brands/models)
4.)DO playback your mix on a variety of playback systems/earbuds/computer speakers to see how the mix will "translate" to other systems. This is entirely different from MIXING on these systems.

That about covers it smile.gif

Todd




QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Nov 19 2013, 06:58 AM) *
Nope Todd- those are not that one. I can't find the precise model name. Mine are more "monitors-like" but indeed - they are not studio monitors they are home audio category and this is exactly the reason of buying them because they represent some standard of home gear that is still in use at some places / homes. When I can nasty 4-6 kHz (narrow cuts at particular frequency depending on the particular mix) I make it sound ok on those NS and still ok on other gear. That's probably something better if we consider that our production is made for people to listen it at home. I think that saying "those speakers are harsh "etc is no excuse for us, mixing guys. Some tweaks make Your record sound good even on those worst speakers or just a notebook speakers. My regular monitors ar Adam A7. This is my opinion.


Each little thing in my "monitoring" system has it's purpose. I use little sharp hi-fifor messing with the middle range. Why? Because why I make some adjustment to the mix and they soudn ok on this Sharp, I still like it on any other of my speakers. Yamaha is for the 4-6kHz tweaks.

Every one of us has a different approach to the mixing job. It's just mine. I'm not saying it's any better.



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Hexabuzz
post Nov 20 2013, 04:38 AM
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If monitors aren't an option, consider adding the Focusrite VRM Box

http://us.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/vrm-box

It simulates various hi, mid and low end monitors, as well as the bleed/crosstalk your ears would normally experience listening to speakers in a room. It also simulates studio as well as home environments.

New, they're only $99, but I found one used for $39

Check it out...

Dave
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Todd Simpson
post Nov 20 2013, 05:26 AM
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Exactly smile.gif I go in to why he's doing this (why most good engineers do it in fact) in this post earlier in the thread. Here is the link to the post. I even mention the NS10m (much improved tweeters over the orginal NS10) in particular smile.gif Small world eh? He's even using the AURATONEs I mention in a following post. Nice setup!

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...st&p=665901




QUOTE (Mertay @ Nov 19 2013, 08:35 AM) *
Check out these monitors from link;

http://www.barisbuyuk.com/web/galeri.aspx?lang=1

He's a well respected mastering engineer where I live and you'll notice giant PMC's together with ns10m's and mixcubes smile.gif I've been there once to meet him and chat. Not giving away any studio secrets but those ns10m's were important to him although the PMC's (almost as expensive as a small house smile.gif ) were nothing like I've ever heard before!

As said every speaker has its use but I must add ns10m's are very good if one knows how to use them, a friend of mine had one long ago when we were students, we mixed a song with them then checked them on Genelec 8050's at school studio and the kick was perfect smile.gif


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Nov 20 2013, 05:29 AM


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Darius Wave
post Nov 20 2013, 01:16 PM
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smile.gif The world of sound iis so twiseted smile.gif But fortunately we usuallyget a few common solutions smile.gif


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Mertay
post Nov 20 2013, 01:31 PM
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QUOTE (Hexabuzz @ Nov 20 2013, 03:38 AM) *
If monitors aren't an option, consider adding the Focusrite VRM Box

http://us.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/vrm-box

It simulates various hi, mid and low end monitors, as well as the bleed/crosstalk your ears would normally experience listening to speakers in a room. It also simulates studio as well as home environments.

New, they're only $99, but I found one used for $39

Check it out...

Dave


There are some demo software options, before buying I suggest trying them first. To be honest I'm not a fan of that technology but maybe its just me...

One thing particularly important about headphones is the longer you work with them, the higher volume you'll want to listen them to a point of permanent damage to your ears. Once in a while/when away from home is ok but not good for everyday use of replacing monitors.

Its simply a nature of listening through them in time, specially when ipod's became popular I remember I could hear what others were listening in the subway tongue.gif


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jstcrsn
post Nov 21 2013, 06:35 PM
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I know these are not the best, but if your one a budget akg 44 for 20 bucks
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Countdown-to-B...;source=4TP3LLA
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Todd Simpson
post Nov 22 2013, 10:09 PM
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I've got a pair of those and for $20 they are some of the best you'll find. If you are working with a tight budget these are a great choice. WELL SAID DARIUS!!!!

Todd




QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Nov 21 2013, 12:35 PM) *
I know these are not the best, but if your one a budget akg 44 for 20 bucks
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Countdown-to-B...;source=4TP3LLA



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Spock
post Nov 23 2013, 02:35 PM
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I wish I understood mastering more. I use headphones, but not for mixing. When I finally get something sounding the way I like it, it sounds totally different in my car, so I always load my export to my iPhone and drive around to hear the mix, come back and adjust until my car sounds good. It always sounds good being played straight out of the DAW on my computer - but the translation to other devices is never there or consistent, even between songs when I have made all the same exact settings on each track - even input levels.

And, I have never attempted to mix for something to sound good on a laptop - I suppose that would be a totally different train of thought, because you would have to really do some magic on bass and drums to get them to stand out and be level for tiny speakers.

I really want some bigger monitors or just add more - I use the Rockit 5, but would love to put the 8s in their place and move the 5s more towards the back.
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Mertay
post Nov 23 2013, 06:46 PM
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QUOTE (Spock @ Nov 23 2013, 01:35 PM) *
I wish I understood mastering more. I use headphones, but not for mixing. When I finally get something sounding the way I like it, it sounds totally different in my car, so I always load my export to my iPhone and drive around to hear the mix, come back and adjust until my car sounds good. It always sounds good being played straight out of the DAW on my computer - but the translation to other devices is never there or consistent, even between songs when I have made all the same exact settings on each track - even input levels.

And, I have never attempted to mix for something to sound good on a laptop - I suppose that would be a totally different train of thought, because you would have to really do some magic on bass and drums to get them to stand out and be level for tiny speakers.

I really want some bigger monitors or just add more - I use the Rockit 5, but would love to put the 8s in their place and move the 5s more towards the back.


This might be a room or speaker placement issue?


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Spock
post Nov 23 2013, 07:04 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Nov 23 2013, 12:46 PM) *
This might be a room or speaker placement issue?



I think it's my ear honestly, not real sure. Maybe I'm being too picky as little things drive me nuts which nobody else would ever notice - at the same time, my finished product never sounds professional, I mean, it sounds good for a novice and it's fine for what it is. I'm learning as I go, little by little and enjoying the process, but I would love to be able to turn my tinkering into a well produced wall of sound.

I'm really interested and thinking about getting into the EZ Mix software - I'm very impressed with the demos on their site.
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Mertay
post Nov 23 2013, 07:54 PM
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QUOTE (Spock @ Nov 23 2013, 06:04 PM) *
I think it's my ear honestly, not real sure. Maybe I'm being too picky as little things drive me nuts which nobody else would ever notice - at the same time, my finished product never sounds professional, I mean, it sounds good for a novice and it's fine for what it is. I'm learning as I go, little by little and enjoying the process, but I would love to be able to turn my tinkering into a well produced wall of sound.

I'm really interested and thinking about getting into the EZ Mix software - I'm very impressed with the demos on their site.


Can't be sure without listening but I thought you have the problem of replicating a mastered sound in a mix stage.

Professional productions simply sound good right after recording with only pan and level balance. I suggest aiming to a realistic sound (stage-like without the reverb) rather than a mastered cd as reference, its really not a bad idea going to concerts for tuning ears.


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Nov 24 2013, 11:27 AM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Nov 23 2013, 07:54 PM) *
Can't be sure without listening but I thought you have the problem of replicating a mastered sound in a mix stage.

Professional productions simply sound good right after recording with only pan and level balance. I suggest aiming to a realistic sound (stage-like without the reverb) rather than a mastered cd as reference, its really not a bad idea going to concerts for tuning ears.


I'd largely agree with Mertay here.

Mixing is not mastering and confusing the two will make your role of mixing much more complicated. A commerical release that has been mastered is different to one that has just finished being mixed. There are lots of material on the internet that have links to mixes prior to mastering, including some that went on to be famous records. You may find it much more useful to listen to some of these and compare them to the final product to give you more of a sense of how your mixes compare. Where comparison with a commercial CD can be helpful is if you want to know what is current for a particular genre. So for instance you may listen to some material to hear how they place the main vocal in the soundstage, how some deliberately shear the top of a wave form and so on.

Where you may well struggle, which is what a lot of home productions try for, is to slavishly mimic the commerical release. What works for one track in terms of EQ, compression etc is nearly always specific to that track and that track alone. Whilst there are general principles and starting points for using EQ etc there are no settings that always work for every track. Software that promotes itself as such... well no comment. A lot of very good pro mixes are mainly just good balancing of well recorded material. Knowing how to gain stage properly is really important here and is far too often missed/ignored by home studios. It's also often a case of knowing what/when not to do something that distinguishes a pro and a home production. Mixing is not a case of chuck any and all of your effects and processors on the tracks and 2 bus ust because they're there. Many home productions are poorly gainstaged, throw too much on and end up sounding distorted, brittle and thin.




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