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> Jstcrn - Wellcome To The World Of Plug-ins
Darius Wave
post Dec 20 2013, 03:16 PM
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No no...we don't want any compressor yet. We want EQ.I have Reaper installed on my home PC so I'll send You an example later


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jstcrsn
post Dec 20 2013, 04:58 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Dec 20 2013, 03:16 PM) *
No no...we don't want any compressor yet. We want EQ.I have Reaper installed on my home PC so I'll send You an example later

ok , I have have purged the track of compressor and anxiously await next instructions
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Todd Simpson
post Dec 22 2013, 08:36 AM
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I took the liberty of processing your clean lead through the same patch I used for the white snake collab which is the DEVIN EPIC LEAD patch from the GUITAR GODS expansion pack for EZ MIX 2.

EZ MIX 2 involves very little tweaking so I think you'd like at especially at first. You will eventually outgrow it of course, but being able to get "one click decent tone" is thing a beauty. You can download the demo for free for the expansion pack costs extra. They are all on sale just now for xmas I think.

Theres a good bit of delay but the overall tone is not bad at all for one click smile.gif Let me know what you think.

Attached File  Cursin_Toddmix_toontrackguitargods.mp3 ( 1.6MB ) Number of downloads: 54





QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Dec 20 2013, 10:58 AM) *
ok , I have have purged the track of compressor and anxiously await next instructions



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Darius Wave
post Dec 22 2013, 11:29 AM
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Todd - thank You for some tips but I would really appreciate if You keep that topic clean because as I sad - I'm trying to give him "the fishing rod instead of the fish". I want him to go through all the tone creating process so he could understand step by step how the tone set up process looks.

I understand it's very tempting for You to take a voice in this case (because Overloud is Your
specialty) but When Two people try to talk to one person at the same time it makes the same confusion as on forum. I'm You'll understand what I mean wink.gif

Going back to the main topic:

Low PAss and High Pass filters are one one the most important EQ adjustments in the mix. They help to keep clarity between instruments just by cutting the amount of lows or highs that particular instrument doesn't have in it's main range. For example guitars are usually based in the middle of the range. We cut off some lows to avoid overlaying on the bass and bass drum. We also cut some high to avoid harsh treble and overlaying with cymbals or vocal presence.


I've specially installed the Reaper so I can help it's users more precisely.


!. Click on the track "fx" button
2. Choose "ReaEQ" from the list
3. Place at the end of the signal chain (it has to be after all previously added plug-ins)
4. On the image You can see that in the eq section "1" You have choose "high pass" from the list. When You do this, You can grab the "1" on the diagram and move it left-right so You can hear how the tone changes. Find the settings You like
5. Go to the eq section 4 and make similar things but choose "low pass" from the list. Grab the "4" point on the diagram and move it left-right until You feel You tone looses unwanted high frequencies but still keeps some "air".

Attached Image

Send me results of Your experiments, then we'll go back to set a up a distortion pedal that's gonna be plugged before amp input




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jstcrsn
post Dec 22 2013, 01:46 PM
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please excuse todd, he was helping me get something quick so I could get it ready for ben's collab on time.
and I don't want to just be given a patch , but am more concerned about understanding all the tools , how and why to best use them .
here is what I did, to my untrained ear I don't no if it did much
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Darius Wave
post Dec 22 2013, 05:57 PM
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No worries mate. I understand his need of help but Todd posts a lot of presets in here. He could also send You some feedback through pm. I'm not mad a t him smile.gif I just want to keep some order in this thread. I think He'll understand. As for You my friend we choose the hard way but it leads to overall understanding of this process. Try to rethink everything step by step - what we do and how it affects the tone. How we start, how we catch some problems, where to search for reasons...This is what we're doing in this thread smile.gif


Now

1. Go back to the point 4 on Your eq (low pass) and move it a bit more to left. I think we can cut some more treble

2. Insert the distortion pedal (stomp box" You had before. Don;'t turn the gain know more than 10% at start. Instead of addin stomp box disto , we only would like it to bost the level and treble. It will make the amp response different. Turn on the treble (or high) to 75% and turn the level to max. Show me results.



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jstcrsn
post Dec 22 2013, 06:20 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Dec 22 2013, 05:57 PM) *
No worries mate. I understand his need of help but Todd posts a lot of presets in here. He could also send You some feedback through pm. I'm not mad a t him smile.gif I just want to keep some order in this thread. I think He'll understand. As for You my friend we choose the hard way but it leads to overall understanding of this process. Try to rethink everything step by step - what we do and how it affects the tone. How we start, how we catch some problems, where to search for reasons...This is what we're doing in this thread smile.gif


Now

1. Go back to the point 4 on Your eq (low pass) and move it a bit more to left. I think we can cut some more treble

2. Insert the distortion pedal (stomp box" You had before. Don;'t turn the gain know more than 10% at start. Instead of addin stomp box disto , we only would like it to bost the level and treble. It will make the amp response different. Turn on the treble (or high) to 75% and turn the level to max. Show me results.

bam
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Darius Wave
post Dec 22 2013, 08:54 PM
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Ok! We're getting closer and closer. Comapring to Your first samples I thinkg You need more gain. You can try to add some on the Amp gain knob this time. Also it's a good moment to consider if Your want to use neck or bridge position.


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Todd Simpson
post Dec 22 2013, 08:56 PM
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No worries smile.gif As carson said, just trying to get him something to work in time for the collab. I have no intention of butting in on your personal instruction with carson. Last post I'll make on this thread smile.gif


QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Dec 22 2013, 11:57 AM) *
No worries mate. I understand his need of help but Todd posts a lot of presets in here. He could also send You some feedback through pm. I'm not mad a t him smile.gif I just want to keep some order in this thread. I think He'll understand. As for You my friend we choose the hard way but it leads to overall understanding of this process. Try to rethink everything step by step - what we do and how it affects the tone. How we start, how we catch some problems, where to search for reasons...This is what we're doing in this thread smile.gif


Now

1. Go back to the point 4 on Your eq (low pass) and move it a bit more to left. I think we can cut some more treble

2. Insert the distortion pedal (stomp box" You had before. Don;'t turn the gain know more than 10% at start. Instead of addin stomp box disto , we only would like it to bost the level and treble. It will make the amp response different. Turn on the treble (or high) to 75% and turn the level to max. Show me results.



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jstcrsn
post Dec 23 2013, 07:39 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Dec 22 2013, 08:54 PM) *
Ok! We're getting closer and closer. Comapring to Your first samples I thinkg You need more gain. You can try to add some on the Amp gain knob this time. Also it's a good moment to consider if Your want to use neck or bridge position.

this was an improve, I could relearn it if you want ,but, if not, the actual solo I have written for it has a section I wanted to switch to the neck pickup.Do you want me to record that solo, either way what would be the next thing to add, to this or the new solo
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Darius Wave
post Dec 24 2013, 10:16 AM
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We have to make sure about 1 thing:

1. Do You feel comfortable playing with a current gain level or You feel it's too big or to small? Try to answear Yourself and change the gain setting until You become satisfied. You can do it either on the amp and by changing "level" knob on the stomp box in front of the amp. Trebel (or high) know will change they way amp responses. You can try to mess up with this one as well. The more high, the more comfortable (more attack, easy playing) amp becomes.

If Your answer for the question is YES, than we can go further (reverb, delay section). Please send me a short sample (guitar with backing track) of we we have by far wink.gif



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jstcrsn
post Dec 24 2013, 03:13 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Dec 24 2013, 10:16 AM) *
We have to make sure about 1 thing:

1. Do You feel comfortable playing with a current gain level or You feel it's too big or to small? Try to answear Yourself and change the gain setting until You become satisfied. You can do it either on the amp and by changing "level" knob on the stomp box in front of the amp. Trebel (or high) know will change they way amp responses. You can try to mess up with this one as well. The more high, the more comfortable (more attack, easy playing) amp becomes.

If Your answer for the question is YES, than we can go further (reverb, delay section). Please send me a short sample (guitar with backing track) of we we have by far wink.gif

the gain level is fine, what I here is when I am riffing , there is a tone al most like a wah . to me it does not have the sustain that I hear ( and am used to ) with my practice amp, even if i turn the gain down on my amp, I am still comfortable enough to play well,
those 2 factors are what give me the biggest problem
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Darius Wave
post Dec 24 2013, 03:35 PM
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I'll be just guessing but there is a huge difference between how the most of tranzistor response to dynamics and how does the real amp. The truth is that 80% of high end amps considered awesome but professional musicians are amps that are not "easy play". At some stage of learning how to play We realize how important is ultra hard playing to get all the juice from the amp. I'm not saying this You're one of below but many people tend to get used to sort of "digital distortion" built in many processors and they find much more hard to play on the true amp.

Some amps and their simulations (like Peavey 5150 and it's TSE X50 vst sim) are very soft (easy to play, much of attack) even without any boster in front. We use treble boosting to manipulate amps response. at this stage I would advice You to turn off the pedal and try make some experiments with the amp simulation in Overloud. Just go through a few different amp types and mess with the gain and eq. Try to find the type of amp You feel most comfortable.


I see You use Modern US which (if related to real amps well) is already an easy play amp. I am downloading TH1 triode demo to get through it and help You detec possible ways to improve the sustain without giving too much gain. Post here 2 files

1. Raw guitar mix (line in signal)
2. The same file mixed through TH1 with the settings we have by far

I'll do experiments


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jstcrsn
post Dec 24 2013, 05:40 PM
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the titles are what they are, I put in2 extra, 1 the sound of my anp mic'd. although my kids broke my mic and the only one I could find was one off my kids karaoke machine. 4 was my settings but I turned the tone on the overdrive al the way down- it seemed to reduce the wah/tintyness , to my ears.
I also added screen shots of the wave , you can see the mic'd amp is full, the others are not, figured cause they are plugins and if I rendered them they would change, but just in case
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jstcrsn
post Jan 1 2014, 01:03 PM
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I could also switch to Lepou and Lecab so you dont have to get th1, I am pretty sure I could get something close, or if there are other free plugins you like, I trust your ears just, let me know
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Darius Wave
post Jan 1 2014, 06:31 PM
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No worries. We will work with the gear You like smile.gif Fortunately there is a demo of triode available and it's not a trial so we can easily work with it smile.gif


Yes - Your thoughts are correct - the more distortion You give, the more compression is added to the signal. This is why the mic track looks so full and the raw line-in guitar are so different in signal amplitude diagrams. DAW doesn't display the diagram of tone "post plug-ins" but as You noticed when You make a mixdown both (miced amp and guitar through plug-in) look similar smile.gif

Unfortunately many of cheap mics doesn't sound good with guitar because they have a lack of midrange and some boost in high end (vocal presence). When You use it for guitar it adds some extra harsh frequencies.

Also...even the reference guitar mics are not "true bypass" ...the do not give exactly what You hear. Most of them (as sm57) has at least a 5dB boost in the 3-6 ( 5 is usually the most boosted value) kHz. This mean that if You bring the mic to the coil, You have to cut those in EQ to have a sound similar to what You hear from the real amp.
Analyzing mic frequency response helps a lot to understand what is going on with the tone. Of course the case is not as simple as my explanation - You always have to experiment with the cut value and Q for the "mic boost compensation. But it's good to know where to start.


Let get through some of Your files.

I decided to make an experiment over Your amp miced tone. I've added the mentioned eq correction (You can add similar values in the reaper eq. As You can see I made a cut in the 5-6 kHz range and added Low Pass filter to get rid of 8 kHz and higher junk frequencies. Of Course You might consider this tone being too fat but when We get rid of the harshness it's much easier to get heavy, yet balanced tone. You can try this out in reaper

Here's an audio sample - processed vs raw order:
Attached File  jstcrn_aduio_sample.wav ( 11.1MB ) Number of downloads: 32


here is the eq I've added:
Attached Image


As for Your plug-in tone it sound pretty nice now - it's ready for a further edition (to fit the mix, not to tweak the tone "just because". IT has nice midrange. Again needs only to get rid of some junk treble and a bit of "boxy" 300-500 Hz range.

Here is a screen of what I would suggest to do
Attached Image


Try to use the tone from the "plug-in" track You sent me and pout it again in the mix. Add this eq and we'll skip to guitar vs backing track tone match smile.gif


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jstcrsn
post Jan 2 2014, 06:46 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Jan 1 2014, 06:31 PM) *
As for Your plug-in tone it sound pretty nice now - it's ready for a further edition (to fit the mix, not to tweak the tone "just because". IT has nice midrange. Again needs only to get rid of some junk treble and a bit of "boxy" 300-500 Hz range.

Here is a screen of what I would suggest to do
Attached Image


Try to use the tone from the "plug-in" track You sent me and pout it again in the mix. Add this eq and we'll skip to guitar vs backing track tone match smile.gif

is this eq in additon to the high and low filter, or is it in the same effect
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Darius Wave
post Jan 2 2014, 10:20 PM
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It's no addition. It's only eq used on the track. High PAss and Low pass are just an options in EQ. You can see on my eq setting point 1 is a high pass and point 4 is a low pass...so they are both included already in this eq


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jstcrsn
post Jan 4 2014, 05:59 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Jan 2 2014, 10:20 PM) *
It's no addition. It's only eq used on the track. High PAss and Low pass are just an options in EQ. You can see on my eq setting point 1 is a high pass and point 4 is a low pass...so they are both included already in this eq

Hope you don't mind , but I would like to turn this a little bit. There is this song that I thought i can cover, it is a lesson here, but there is no backing track. So I am trying to create one so I will then be able to go thru the process of setting up drums,bass as well as guitars that way when I have developed those skills I will be able to submit a few rec takes.
Sound okay with you
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Darius Wave
post Jan 4 2014, 07:01 PM
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No problem. Your guitar tone is now very close to what we expect so We could work a bit on whole mixing process. I can suggest to go through elno adn sammetal92 threads in my section. They already describe some important basic. No need to copy but ofcourse I will answer any single question wink.gif


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