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> Sennheiser E606 Wellcome Home ;), Another Christmass "self-gift" :)
Darius Wave
post Dec 21 2013, 12:24 PM
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Hurray! smile.gif Just received my new toy smile.gif Sennheiser E606.It has i bit different response at top end (comparing to sm57) so it's a great add to recording set for warmer guitar tones smile.gif

Here's a very quick demo smile.gif

https://soundcloud.com/dariuswave/dl-david-laboga-2x12-standard

All set up described in soundcloud description smile.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Dec 21 2013, 05:06 PM
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Wou!!! Killer sound man!! I have the E609, but based on this sample I assume that this one is better...


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Darius Wave
post Dec 21 2013, 09:11 PM
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I'm not sure....maybe You meant 906 wchich is basicly the same but with added filters? Can You recheck this? I can't say anything more right now. Need some time to get used to it. smile.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Dec 21 2013, 09:16 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Dec 21 2013, 05:11 PM) *
I'm not sure....maybe You meant 906 wchich is basicly the same but with added filters? Can You recheck this? I can't say anything more right now. Need some time to get used to it. smile.gif



no, I have this one. It has not settings to change:

http://en-us.sennheiser.com/e-609-silver


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Darius Wave
post Dec 22 2013, 11:38 AM
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Haven't try this but are not satisfied with it? What are Your personal observations ?


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audiopaal
post Dec 22 2013, 04:26 PM
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Nice choice Darius, great microphone for recording.
I use a Shure Beta 57a (when I'm not recording through the line-out of my Suhr amp),
but I would like a Sennheiser E906 (with switchable filters) as well.

Nice recording as well, good sound mate :-)
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Darius Wave
post Dec 22 2013, 05:49 PM
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I still think it could be more organic but it probably more a case of good comp/preamp on tubes rather than using bulit in preamps in presonus interface smile.gif Thanx mate! I just didn't felt a need of filters - prefer to do the filtering in the mix


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Mertay
post Dec 22 2013, 06:08 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Dec 21 2013, 11:24 AM) *
Hurray! smile.gif Just received my new toy smile.gif Sennheiser E606.It has i bit different response at top end (comparing to sm57) so it's a great add to recording set for warmer guitar tones smile.gif

Here's a very quick demo smile.gif

https://soundcloud.com/dariuswave/dl-david-laboga-2x12-standard

All set up described in soundcloud description smile.gif


Congrats, sounded good to me specially since there are no processing smile.gif



QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Dec 21 2013, 08:16 PM) *
no, I have this one. It has not settings to change:

http://en-us.sennheiser.com/e-609-silver



Haven't used this but I have (nebula) ir samples from axe-fx and really liked the cab.s mic.ed with it. They sound a bit more complex compared to others.


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Opetholic
post Dec 22 2013, 07:23 PM
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Hey Darius, really awesome tone !! smile.gif Like it a lot.. Have fun with your new toy smile.gif


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audiopaal
post Dec 23 2013, 09:39 AM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Dec 22 2013, 05:49 PM) *
I still think it could be more organic but it probably more a case of good comp/preamp on tubes rather than using bulit in preamps in presonus interface smile.gif Thanx mate! I just didn't felt a need of filters - prefer to do the filtering in the mix


Yeah, with a good outboard preamp that mic should get even better.
I don't have one myself, but I'm looking to get one as well..
It'll have to wait though, just bought a "new" old guitar, new amp and some new pedals...
I'm broke biggrin.gif

I can see that, I've just always been fascinated by knobs and switches etc., hehe..
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Darius Wave
post Dec 23 2013, 10:23 AM
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he he smile.gif Count me in to the list biggrin.gif Still many experiments to be done smile.gif


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Todd Simpson
post Dec 27 2013, 05:49 AM
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Did you know These are the SAME EXACT MICRPHONE smile.gif The nomenclature is just different to notate one as European market and one as US.

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"The super-cardioid Sennheiser e 606 European Edition dynamic guitar microphone was specially developed for miking guitar cabs dead on and extremely close to the signal source. The e 606 is the European version of the E609 Silver and identical in every way. Based on the coveted Sennheiser MD 409, the secret weapon of engineers and producers well-versed in heavy guitar recording, the e 606 can handle very high SPLs and is remarkably convenient to use since its side-address capsule lets you hang it right over a guitar cab and sit in the sweet spot. "
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The e609 are amazing, and cheap!
Attached Image
ve been the secret sauce for many a fine guitar recording.

When paired with a mic such as the Sennheiser MD 421,
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it is often called "GOD's GUITAR TONE" since the mics pick up such a huge range of low/mid/high and blend together amazingly well. It's an old studio trick smile.gif

Folks have been COMBINING these mic on cabs and getting AMAZING metal sounds every since the dawn of time. smile.gif This is really a great little secret to getting your home rig to sound HUGE and FILLED WITH DEATH AND BLOOD smile.gif

The best news is that 606/609 is only aboout $100us!! The other one is four times that price but you can find a used one or use something like the CAD M-179 which is pretty close to the MD421 at a fourth of the price.

Attached Image


So there it is wink.gif The quick and dirty about getting some stellar sounds out of your 4x12 or 2x12 or even 1x12 cab just like the pros do smile.gif

*Let the arguments ensue!

Todd

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The the
QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Dec 22 2013, 05:38 AM) *
Haven't try this but are not satisfied with it? What are Your personal observations ?


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Dec 27 2013, 05:51 AM


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Darius Wave
post Dec 27 2013, 09:47 AM
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Thanx for the add Todd smile.gif Yep - I heard about MD and I've seen 609 / 906 too. It only has the filters while mine doesn't. I choose to try it because it has a boost in different range than SM57. I'll get a few more mics for sure since I'm preparing for loud gear demos smile.gif I'm also searching for my own mic for live gigs. I'm trying to find best set up so I'll make sure I know what I get through P.A. I'll also experiment with a piece of cloth as a LPF.

My current observations are:

1. Either E606 as a SM57 are not "true" in the 4-6 kHz range - they boost it so I always get brighter tone than I set up on the amp (speaker directly into my ears, very close). Althought boost of Sennheiser is bigger.

2. Even if I set the bass far beyond the limit of live tolerance (almost no bass going from the cab) I still got a lot of bass in the record. The more I move the mic further from the cab, the more it's sounds reminds of what I really hear from the amp itself

3. Mic center on the coil gives best high to low ratio but needs LPF for sure. Especially some juicy 1-2 kHz mids are well balanced there. Treble end is not pleasant but after Low Passing it's perfect - most even in all freq range.

4. Trying to get "mix ready" tone by giving off axis, between or cone edge always gives me way too much bass while the amp has almost no bass when You listen to it live.




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Todd Simpson
post Jan 2 2014, 08:40 AM
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Good ears!! smile.gif I agree all the way with you. Both the 606 and 57 have a "hump" in roughly the vocal/mid range. So they are not "flat" mics. The 606 is brighter than the 57 but they combine well smile.gif Point the 57 directly in front of the speaker cone, put the 609 off center, blend together and BAM smile.gif The punch of the 57 balances the bite of the 606. Give it a shot and let us know what you think!

For live stuff, The trick (infuriating as it may be) is often to eq the amp to sound like you want it through mics IMHO. As a result, sometimes what's coming out of the amp is not ideal on stage. But the audience only hears what's coming through mics / mains in a decent sized show.

By the same token, For recording, the trick is often to eq the amp more for the monitors than the mics. After all the monitors represent what will be recorded. So the amp may sound wack in the room and killer on the track.

I realize of course that as a guitarist, one wants to get great amp tone, and then record that tone. And this is possible smile.gif However, the only time I've seen it demonstrated effectively was at a full studio with a half stack in the main recording room using the 606 and 57 and using a 421 on the open backed cab and two neuman room mics. The tone in the control room and amp room was identical. But then again it took a full recording studio and 5 microphones and a big live room.

If you are looking to get a more accurate sound of your amp, you may want to try adding your condenser mic back in, but you have to cut the lows waaaaay back or it will so crazy bass heavy. Some condenser mics have a built in bass roll off just for this reason. The good news is that a nice condenser can pick up a very broad range of frequencies so it can be a bit more accurate. But they can also fry if given too much sound pressure level.

Goodness that's long winded. Hmm. Well, it about sums up my recording experiences smile.gif

Todd


QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Dec 27 2013, 03:47 AM) *
Thanx for the add Todd smile.gif Yep - I heard about MD and I've seen 609 / 906 too. It only has the filters while mine doesn't. I choose to try it because it has a boost in different range than SM57. I'll get a few more mics for sure since I'm preparing for loud gear demos smile.gif I'm also searching for my own mic for live gigs. I'm trying to find best set up so I'll make sure I know what I get through P.A. I'll also experiment with a piece of cloth as a LPF.

My current observations are:

1. Either E606 as a SM57 are not "true" in the 4-6 kHz range - they boost it so I always get brighter tone than I set up on the amp (speaker directly into my ears, very close). Althought boost of Sennheiser is bigger.

2. Even if I set the bass far beyond the limit of live tolerance (almost no bass going from the cab) I still got a lot of bass in the record. The more I move the mic further from the cab, the more it's sounds reminds of what I really hear from the amp itself

3. Mic center on the coil gives best high to low ratio but needs LPF for sure. Especially some juicy 1-2 kHz mids are well balanced there. Treble end is not pleasant but after Low Passing it's perfect - most even in all freq range.

4. Trying to get "mix ready" tone by giving off axis, between or cone edge always gives me way too much bass while the amp has almost no bass when You listen to it live.



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Darius Wave
post Jan 2 2014, 10:30 AM
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I was doing a lot of experiments. I do agree with You and indeed I always tried to set the "tone for the mic" but I found that this huge 5dB boost in the nasty 5Kz range was still messing the tone on the front. Even if I roll of the treble to almost 0 on the amp.

Lately I was experimenting with a piece of acoustic foam. I made a few pieces with different thickness. It works like a natural LPF. I'll show some experiment samples soon. It's probably the easiest and the cheapest way. If You have a multi speaker cab than You can still have a good tone on stage and compensate some mic problems with mentioned foam and...the mic distance. The problem is...we never get our ears as close as we usually put the mic and also the lows are insanely boosted right in the grill distance. So I took a thin foam to cover the coil of one speaker and put it around 20 cm from the amp. I'm very close to what I want smile.gif

Otherwise I have to trust the engeneer...which is not always a good choice (not even talking bout the skills but just private taste and...the time there is for the soundcheck.


Personally I like the sound of condenser mic about 50 cm from the cab what IMHO gives the most natural tone of the cabinet.

I also made and experiment with ribbon oktava ML52. Now this one had a perfect high cut but it captures the sound from both sides so won't work on stage well enough. Can't wait to test Beyerdynamics M160 - cardioid ribbon mic. I wonder if this high cut ic caused by the unidirectional characteristic of ML52 or just by the ribbon construction.

Unfortunately none of my friends have one to borrow for test :/


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jan 2 2014, 10:49 AM
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Here you have a pic of my cabinets micked during the recording of Cirse's second album. There you will find sm 57, AKG 421 and Sennheiser 609. From my experience, Shure SM 57 is the best one for rock guitars, and I like to add AKG 421, or Sennheiser 609 to add an extra color to the tone. That's what I did during the mix of that album.


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Darius Wave
post Jan 2 2014, 02:47 PM
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Here is a little sample. When looking for a warm tone I found a nice balance having the 7 cm distance, between position, off axis (respect to the coil angle) and a 1 cm thick acoustic foam. You can see how it cuts some nasty 5 kHz range. Reson of 7 cm distance is the low overload while holding the mic closer. Mic is Audio-technica atm650 (very similar sounding to sm57 but some extra add in 1kHz range).

If You put the same foam in the center (coil) and position the mic on axis. It will only cut some junk from 10 kHz and further.

The off axis , 7 cm distance, coil respect position if probably my favourite by far. Of course for regular record I would prefer to leave the Low Passing for the mixing stage (I like the mids in-face around 1-3 kHz that works great in the mix but the best balance is related to straight to coil mic position which also gives a lot of junk above 6 kHz.

here's audio sample - with foam vs no foam:

Attached File  lpf_experiment.wav ( 8.3MB ) Number of downloads: 49




Foam test screen:

Attached Image


Here's another cool (I hope cool tone) made with no post processing (just the mic and it's position...but again it's audio-technica)

Attached File  off_axis_cool_tone.wav ( 11.49MB ) Number of downloads: 52




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