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> The Sad Truth..., About Fast Food
Xranthoius
post Jul 8 2007, 11:27 PM
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Layzer
post Jul 8 2007, 11:42 PM
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sadly, that's not nearly as bad as some places are with cattle and some other animals...


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fkalich
post Jul 9 2007, 12:01 AM
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QUOTE (Xranthoius @ Jul 8 2007, 05:27 PM) *


pretty much a reflection on what people are. i can understand the argument that the animals would not be alive otherwise. but the least we could do is require humane treatment (not feed lot existence) and come up with a kill where the animals never knew what hit them, did not know it was coming, did not have to experience that terror, such a horrible death, the terror they go though. but no, that would add to the cost. that is what is horrible about it, that the general public is so amoral that nobody cares about this, not when it might cost them a few bucks to do things differently. so they have a horrible life, and death in terror, not worth an extra 50 cents a pound to do otherwise, people have their priorities, have the $130 cable bill to pay, etc.

people tend to trash corporate culture for this kind of thing. i don't, people get served just what they want, and are not willing demand humane treatment of animals, not when it will cost them a bit.

QUOTE (Layzer @ Jul 8 2007, 05:42 PM) *
sadly, that's not nearly as bad as some places are with cattle and some other animals...


it is bad enough. Americans sweep it under the rug. Pretend it is not there. As I understand it, England, other parts of Europe, don't have the feed lot mode of production, which is horrible, inhumane. If people cared, there would be laws. People don't care, they just pretend it doesn't happen. For the most part.
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GroovinMastiff
post Jul 9 2007, 12:47 AM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Jul 8 2007, 08:01 PM) *
pretty much a reflection on what people are. i can understand the argument that the animals would not be alive otherwise. but the least we could do is require humane treatment (not feed lot existence) and come up with a kill where the animals never knew what hit them, did not know it was coming, did not have to experience that terror, such a horrible death, the terror they go though. but no, that would add to the cost. that is what is horrible about it, that the general public is so amoral that nobody cares about this, not when it might cost them a few bucks to do things differently. so they have a horrible life, and death in terror, not worth an extra 50 cents a pound to do otherwise, people have their priorities, have the $130 cable bill to pay, etc.

people tend to trash corporate culture for this kind of thing. i don't, people get served just what they want, and are not willing demand humane treatment of animals, not when it will cost them a bit.
it is bad enough. Americans sweep it under the rug. Pretend it is not there. As I understand it, England, other parts of Europe, don't have the feed lot mode of production, which is horrible, inhumane. If people cared, there would be laws. People don't care, they just pretend it doesn't happen. For the most part.


You're absolutely correct in saying that the majority of people don't care, I mean people don't want it to become "75 cent hamburger day", they've become accustomed to and look forward to "39 cent hamburger day", and they have no care as to why the burgers are so cheap, the fact that it's cheap food is all that matters.

Also, I'm not sure about the feedlot ban in Europe, but what I do know is that bovine growth hormone use was banned in Europe but not in the United States. The hormone causes cows to produce unnaturally large quantities of milk which leads to lower milk prices. And again most people won't want to pay the extra cents it would take per carton to support natural milk production.
And people wonder why North America has such a high incidence of medical conditions that are virtually non-existent in developing countries (e.g. mental conditions such as depression), it is my honest opinion that the junk that people put in their body is bound to have an effect on their mental state, I doubt nature intended for humans to eat all the chemical wonders that we find in today's food.


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JOhn
post Jul 9 2007, 01:10 AM
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i find this offensive laugh.gif

Some people might be frightened by this video it is pretty strange seeing animals killed that way.


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botoxfox
post Oct 21 2007, 05:31 AM
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Sorry for bumping this thread, but I have an opinion to express... cool.gif

To be honest, I think that that must be the most biased PETA type of crap I've seen in a while (and don't take me wrong here, I despise stuff like fur farming etc.), but I really failed to see any real inhumane treatment in this video, since I know about these kind of things as I worked in the meat industry for 2 years.

The slaughtering of cows (and other animals like pigs etc.) may look brutal, but the fact is there is no way to make killing of animals look like a kids TV show. In that vid I didn't see even a needle touch the cows before after they were unconscious/killed. Also, stressing up animals before they are killed results in very poor quality meat.

And regarding the farming part... A farmer would want the most money out the animals he's/she's selling, so treating the animals badly wouldn't be a good idea, although sadly, this happens a lot in some parts of the world, but that's just because those farmers are f**king stupid...

Edit: typos

This post has been edited by botoxfox: Oct 21 2007, 06:01 AM


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Eat-Sleep-andJam
post Oct 21 2007, 05:43 AM
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QUOTE (botoxfox @ Oct 20 2007, 08:31 PM) *
Sorry for bumping this thread, but I have an opinion to express... cool.gif

To be honest, I think that that must be the most biased PETA type of crap I've seen in a while (and don't take me wrong here, I despise stuff like fur farming etc.), but I really failed to see any real inhumane tretment in this video, since I know about these kind of things as I worked in the meat industry for 2 years.

The slaughtering of cows (and other animals like pigs etc.) may look brutal, but the fact is there is no way to make killing of animals look like a kids TV show. In that vid I did'n see even a needle touch the cows before after they were non-conscious/killed. Also, stressing up animals before they are killed results in very poor quality meat.

And regarding the farming part... A farmer would want the most money out the animals he's selling so treating the animals badly wouldn't be a good idea, although sadly, this happens a lot in some parts of the world, but that's just because those farmers are f**king stupid...



Agreed ! Personally I think Its a part of life. Honestly can anyone in here say that if you were really really hungry that you wouldnt eat Bambi ?


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Oct 21 2007, 06:56 AM
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First - apologies all as I'm not going to be particularly nice in this - Andrew delete if you feel it offends.

As a teenager I worked on a farm where we killed and processed chickens and turkeys mainly for a big 'fast food' joint. From my experience it IS a nasty, dirty, disgusting and degrading job and not one that I could ever defend in any way as nice - either to the birds or the people who did the work. After about 4 weeks there you get to block the constant noise of the birds; you learn how to flip one so as to break its neck if it wasn't electricuted in the dip bath; you even get used to the smell of bird crap that sticks to your clothes and skin no matter how often you wash.

What I didn't get used to was the little acts of inhumanity that we showed each other on the farm. You get burnt out not just by being surrounded by death all the time but the sheer scale of it - believe me there is a big difference between killing one chicken and being involved in killing hundreds every day of the week. So just being a s*** to some animal or another person is all of a sudden small beer. One of my friends who worked a season there used to get drunk on pay day and go out and beat seven kinds of crap out of people for no other reason then he didn't care if they got hurt or if he did.

I guess what I'm coming round to is this - I choose not to eat in 'fast food' joints because I don't like their practices generally and more specifically in relation to the rearing, slaughtering and butchering of meat and from that the quality and 'healthiness' of it. If you eat what passes for meat in 'fast food' joints spend a month working in one of their slaughter houses and then make a decision on whether you think the video is hype. That's got nothing to do with being a vegan etc - I'm not, I eat and on occasion butcher the animal - where I live that is all part and parcel of living in the countryside. There is however a big difference to me with the humane treatment of animals -including for food - and the intensive farming and mass slaughter that serves the 'fast food' industry.

Would I eat Bambi? We hunt, butcher and eat fresh venison round here when it's in season. But I wouldn't eat a Bambi Burger from any of the 'fast food' joints.

Cheers,
Tony

Edited for language - Andrew


This post has been edited by Andrew Cockburn: Oct 21 2007, 06:59 AM


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Eat-Sleep-andJam
post Oct 21 2007, 07:07 AM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Oct 20 2007, 09:56 PM) *
First - apologies all as I'm not going to be particularly nice in this - Andrew delete if you feel it offends.

As a teenager I worked on a farm where we killed and processed chickens and turkeys mainly for a big 'fast food' joint. From my experience it IS a nasty, dirty, disgusting and degrading job and not one that I could ever defend in any way as nice - either to the birds or the people who did the work. After about 4 weeks there you get to block the constant noise of the birds; you learn how to flip one so as to break its neck if it wasn't electricuted in the dip bath; you even get used to the smell of bird crap that sticks to your clothes and skin no matter how often you wash.

What I didn't get used to was the little acts of inhumanity that we showed each other on the farm. You get burnt out not just by being surrounded by death all the time but the sheer scale of it - believe me there is a big difference between killing one chicken and being involved in killing hundreds every day of the week. So just being a s*** to some animal or another person is all of a sudden small beer. One of my friends who worked a season there used to get drunk on pay day and go out and beat seven kinds of crap out of people for no other reason then he didn't care if they got hurt or if he did.

I guess what I'm coming round to is this - I choose not to eat in 'fast food' joints because I don't like their practices generally and more specifically in relation to the rearing, slaughtering and butchering of meat and from that the quality and 'healthiness' of it. If you eat what passes for meat in 'fast food' joints spend a month working in one of their slaughter houses and then make a decision on whether you think the video is hype. That's got nothing to do with being a vegan etc - I'm not, I eat and on occasion butcher the animal - where I live that is all part and parcel of living in the countryside. There is however a big difference to me with the humane treatment of animals -including for food - and the intensive farming and mass slaughter that serves the 'fast food' industry.

Would I eat Bambi? We hunt, butcher and eat fresh venison round here when it's in season. But I wouldn't eat a Bambi Burger from any of the 'fast food' joints.

Cheers,
Tony

Edited for language - Andrew




Another Great Point. I mean Im not some " Lets Kill Animals ! " Maniac but I do believe that there is no shame in having burgers, steak,veal and what not. However, Fast Food is slowly becoming more disgusting. Did you guys know that Taco Bell's meat is considered "D" Class Meat ?


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mattacuk
post Oct 21 2007, 07:16 AM
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That is a Very good post actually Tony - it made me stop and think about how food gets to fast food resteraunts - ive never really considered it in the past!


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SLASH91
post Oct 21 2007, 08:22 AM
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QUOTE (Eat-Sleep-andJam @ Oct 21 2007, 01:07 AM) *
Another Great Point. I mean Im not some " Lets Kill Animals ! " Maniac but I do believe that there is no shame in having burgers, steak,veal and what not. However, Fast Food is slowly becoming more disgusting. Did you guys know that Taco Bell's meat is considered "D" Class Meat ?


Mmmm...but Taco Bell is so good. tongue.gif
But really, I completely agree with you. I don't believe that there is anything wrong with eating meat. Unless the animals are treated extremely cruelly. And, yeah, Peta is just a load of crap. The inhumane treatment of animals in our society is a problem, but they focus more on the "don't even eat meat factor" than the actual cruelity that occurs like that of which Tonymiro was talking about.

This post has been edited by SLASH91: Oct 21 2007, 08:32 AM


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RobM
post Oct 21 2007, 09:17 AM
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QUOTE (Xranthoius @ Jul 8 2007, 06:27 PM) *



Sorry but I find that this kind of thing, no matter if it's in the off topic discussioins thread section or not, has no place being on a guitar site, just as I feel pushing a religion or a politicial topic has no business being on here either. For the most part people here have tried to keep this place alive and fun, what is fun about this or any or the other topics i've mentioned? I think regardless of how you feel about certain things they are nonetheless a downer and have no place here!

I come here to unwind and relax, not to get bombarded with imagines that make me think even more about the bad things in life.


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Andrew Cockburn
post Oct 21 2007, 10:09 AM
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I agree with RobM - I personally have no interest in this kind of thread on a guitar site and definitely wouldn't be reading it if I wasn't a moderator.

Having said that, as long as people keep their heads it isn't breaking any forum rules so I'm not going to do anything about it other than express the earnest wish that this thread dies and doesn't get resurrected again (I was glad to see it go the last time).


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fkalich
post Oct 21 2007, 11:46 AM
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QUOTE (SLASH91 @ Oct 21 2007, 02:22 AM) *
Mmmm...but Taco Bell is so good. tongue.gif
But really, I completely agree with you. I don't believe that there is anything wrong with eating meat. Unless the animals are treated extremely cruelly. And, yeah, Peta is just a load of crap. The inhumane treatment of animals in our society is a problem, but they focus more on the "don't even eat meat factor" than the actual cruelity that occurs like that of which Tonymiro was talking about.


The Peta bit is nonsense, they have little impact. The Humane Society is the organization behind animal welfare rights. Very powerful lobby, as powerful as the Gun lobby. All recent changes, such as making animal fighting a federal crime, the slaughtering of horses for meat, stopping people from being forced to abandon their animals in an emergency (such as New Orleans), all the federal changes in animal welfare rights are due to their influence, and the supporters (such as myself). They are not radical, but if you are on their mailing list, you will be informed of what is going on, and may find that you yourself would feel better paying a bit more for food, if that meant that farm animals are given a more humane existence than they are given now (to keep prices rock bottom low).

Wendys has blocked emails from Humane Society members. Burger King is making changes to phase in more humane practices. Make your choice. I rarely eat fast food myself. And not a lot of meat. More than 6 oz a day is unhealthy anyway, even for training athletes.
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Ryan
post Oct 21 2007, 12:01 PM
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QUOTE (GroovinMastiff @ Jul 8 2007, 06:47 PM) *
You're absolutely correct in saying that the majority of people don't care, I mean people don't want it to become "75 cent hamburger day", they've become accustomed to and look forward to "39 cent hamburger day", and they have no care as to why the burgers are so cheap, the fact that it's cheap food is all that matters.

Also, I'm not sure about the feedlot ban in Europe, but what I do know is that bovine growth hormone use was banned in Europe but not in the United States. The hormone causes cows to produce unnaturally large quantities of milk which leads to lower milk prices. And again most people won't want to pay the extra cents it would take per carton to support natural milk production.
And people wonder why North America has such a high incidence of medical conditions that are virtually non-existent in developing countries (e.g. mental conditions such as depression), it is my honest opinion that the junk that people put in their body is bound to have an effect on their mental state, I doubt nature intended for humans to eat all the chemical wonders that we find in today's food.

39 cent hamburgers, WHERE DO YOU LIVE?!?!?!?!?

This is a way better alternative than being eaten by another animal, or being road kill!!!

Plus, we are the superior beings on this planet. If they were im sure they would do the same things to us.


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Soul_Decision
post Oct 21 2007, 12:05 PM
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Lol, what Ryan said. Don't forget we're a part of nature's design also.


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swingline
post Oct 21 2007, 12:09 PM
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I find it to be natural and not that big of a deal. Plus Even if Taco Bell had "F" grade meat (if theres a such thing) I'd eat it because its damn good. Also its not like the cows are in a cage made of barbed wire that is six inches bigger than its body. As far as I've seen here in the US cows aren't treated like royalty like in India but they are still in pretty good quarters. I'd rather have the lower prices and have things stay the way they are.

This post has been edited by swingline: Oct 21 2007, 12:14 PM


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Kizaze44
post Oct 21 2007, 12:09 PM
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For those who are interested, you might find this book fascinating, as I did:

THE OMNIVORE'S DILEMNA

http://www.amazon.com/Omnivores-Dilemma-Na...s/dp/1594200823

Basically, it details the "industrialization" of food in the USA (and coming near you, the rest of the world), and it's mind-blowing.

-Kiz
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Soul_Decision
post Oct 21 2007, 12:11 PM
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QUOTE (swingline @ Oct 21 2007, 04:09 AM) *
I find it to be natural and not that big of a deal. Plus Even if Taco Bell had "F" grade meat (if theres a such thing) I'd eat it because its damn good.

L O L, +1


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post Oct 21 2007, 01:36 PM
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I watched this video and then went out and got a burger from McDonalds.

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