2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Straining My Hands
sammetal92
post Jan 14 2014, 12:25 PM
Post #1


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 760
Joined: 21-January 13
Member No.: 17.500



This weird thing has been happening to me. Since winter started, I've noticed a significant decrease in the amount of time I CAN practice.

I'm not very fond of warm-ups, but I do some stretching and runs before playing anything full speed. Now, the amount of time my hands STAY warmed up has decreased a lot. Probably because I don't like heat, I love cold, sometimes I don't even turn on the heat in my house, my blood's really warm smile.gif

Lately, I've been practicing and playing a lot. When I practice, I literally keep playing to the metronome and upping the speed till I feel the burn. But just one hint of a burn, and I'll leave it for 2-5 minutes. I go back, stretch my fingers and massage my hands a bit, and go at it again. Now I'm straining my hands, but its not pain, its the burn, exactly like when you go to the gym and work out.

A point comes when that burn stays, doesn't go away for quite a while. At that point, I can't play even if I wanted to. But I get extremely worried that all the practice I've done will be in vain if I don't try to play more, and that when I'll pick up the guitar again, say in a few hours, I'll have to start all over again and the practice I've just done will be wasted...

Its only been 4 days since all of this has been happening, so before I adopt any bad habits, would someone please tell me whether what I'm doing is safe or dangerous? Or will it affect my technique at all? In a good or a bad way?


--------------------

Download my free guitar and Floyd Rose setup guide: http://www.samsguitars.tk/
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Gabriel Leopardi
post Jan 14 2014, 12:55 PM
Post #2


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 29.218
Joined: 3-March 07
From: Argentina
Member No.: 1.289



Hi mate. You have to be extremely careful with your hands and fingers. You will need from them all your life. I think that if the burn feeling is too strong, you should relax your fingers, and maybe stop playing for a day. The burnt can suddenly become a hurt. I recommend you to dedicate some time to stretches and massages, even now during these days when the feeling is becoming stronger.




There is no hurry to become the most technical guitarists but it's VERY important to take care of your muscles, arms, hands and fingers.


--------------------
My lessons

Do you need a Guitar Plan?
Join Gab's Army

Check my band:Cirse
Check my soundcloud:Soundcloud

Please subscribe to my:Youtube Channel
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ben Higgins
post Jan 14 2014, 01:13 PM
Post #3


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 13.788
Joined: 11-March 10
From: England
Member No.: 9.820



But just one hint of a burn, and I'll leave it for 2-5 minutes - In my opinion you are being a bit too cautious here. If we all had to put down our guitars every time we started noticing the burn we'd never get any solid practise done smile.gif

However, I do think you're sensible to rest frequently.. but you may be over estimating how much you need to avoid the burn. The burn is normal.. it shows your muscles are working. It's when the burn becomes pain that you're overdoing it. Of course, you don't want to wait for pain to show up before you say 'Ok, that's enough for today'.... so I think you're wise to confront this now. You can probably tell when you've had enough because the burn lingers a lot longer and your hand really does feel too sluggish to do much more. That's a good sign to stop.

Of course, all practise doesn't have to be of the stamina variety... sometimes, practise is more about working on other things. But when you're working on stuff that directly targets things like stamina then you're going to notice this.

The cold weather can and will affect it.. I've also noticed my hands getting tired quicker recently.

Also, are you eating and drinking enough ? smile.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sammetal92
post Jan 14 2014, 01:28 PM
Post #4


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 760
Joined: 21-January 13
Member No.: 17.500



QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jan 14 2014, 11:55 AM) *
Hi mate. You have to be extremely careful with your hands and fingers. You will need from them all your life. I think that if the burn feeling is too strong, you should relax your fingers, and maybe stop playing for a day. The burnt can suddenly become a hurt. I recommend you to dedicate some time to stretches and massages, even now during these days when the feeling is becoming stronger.




There is no hurry to become the most technical guitarists but it's VERY important to take care of your muscles, arms, hands and fingers.


Thanks mate, I have that instructional video somewhere but I can't find it tongue.gif I'll do these from now on smile.gif

QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Jan 14 2014, 12:13 PM) *
But just one hint of a burn, and I'll leave it for 2-5 minutes - In my opinion you are being a bit too cautious here. If we all had to put down our guitars every time we started noticing the burn we'd never get any solid practise done smile.gif

However, I do think you're sensible to rest frequently.. but you may be over estimating how much you need to avoid the burn. The burn is normal.. it shows your muscles are working. It's when the burn becomes pain that you're overdoing it. Of course, you don't want to wait for pain to show up before you say 'Ok, that's enough for today'.... so I think you're wise to confront this now. You can probably tell when you've had enough because the burn lingers a lot longer and your hand really does feel too sluggish to do much more. That's a good sign to stop.

Of course, all practise doesn't have to be of the stamina variety... sometimes, practise is more about working on other things. But when you're working on stuff that directly targets things like stamina then you're going to notice this.

The cold weather can and will affect it.. I've also noticed my hands getting tired quicker recently.

Also, are you eating and drinking enough ? smile.gif


Well, maybe I exaggerated in the first part, I meant more like the muscles right below my pinky start to become sluggish, and its a bit painful to make hammer-ons and pull-offs, that's when I leave the guitar for 2-5 minutes.

I'm almost constantly working on stuff like legato, sweeping, vibrato, and anything related to fast lead guitar. Not much time being spent on practicing phrasing at the moment.

I'm drinking around 4-5 glasses of water a day, and eating two meals a day.


--------------------

Download my free guitar and Floyd Rose setup guide: http://www.samsguitars.tk/
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
klasaine
post Jan 14 2014, 05:14 PM
Post #5


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.849
Joined: 30-December 12
From: Los Angeles, CA
Member No.: 17.304



1) warm up!
2) cold will/can make you hurt a little more (it does me).
3) how much did you practice before and how much now?
4) are you doing something hand position wise that's hurting you?
* this is where actual, face to face private lessons REALLY help - instant personal feedback. (Take a private lesson or at least make a video showing your hands.)


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sammetal92
post Jan 14 2014, 07:22 PM
Post #6


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 760
Joined: 21-January 13
Member No.: 17.500



QUOTE (klasaine @ Jan 14 2014, 04:14 PM) *
1) warm up!
2) cold will/can make you hurt a little more (it does me).
3) how much did you practice before and how much now?
4) are you doing something hand position wise that's hurting you?
* this is where actual, face to face private lessons REALLY help - instant personal feedback. (Take a private lesson or at least make a video showing your hands.)


Yes, I know what I'm missing out on by not taking private lessons :/ I took a few private lessons when I first started out, and yeah the instructor did tell me how to position my hands and stuff. I'm more like a classical style player, with the guitar resting on my left leg rather than my right, but I use both. When I'm doing scales and exercises and stuff, I just use the regular sitting position (guitar on right leg), then at a point when I want to get faster and/or get better access to the higher frets, I change my position to the classical one, and its SO much more comfortable to me smile.gif I have a few videos of me playing here, I'll show you my league of extraordinary axemen take.



1) yes I know, I try but I hate warming up sad.gif will do it more now cool.gif
2) It probably does for me too... Maybe I need to consider turning the heat on more..
3) well, winters of 2012 I didn't practice this much before I joined GMC in February 2013. I think around 20-25 minutes or so. Now I practice 1-2 hours (without counting the breaks in between, total time) a day because uni's off till next semester. During uni, I practice 30 minutes to an hour a day.
4) I love legato, and it always hurts me, but it hurts a lot less now, A LOT less. The day I joined GMC, I jumed on to Ben's Land of Legato and all of the skin on my middle finger was slashed and it came off and it bled a lot. Now it doesn't hurt my fingers, it only strains my hands, especially when doing it fingers stretched.

This post has been edited by sammetal92: Jan 14 2014, 07:25 PM


--------------------

Download my free guitar and Floyd Rose setup guide: http://www.samsguitars.tk/
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Todd Simpson
post Jan 14 2014, 08:27 PM
Post #7


GMC:er
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 14.754
Joined: 23-December 09
From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Member No.: 8.794



Todd here smile.gif Some great advice in these posts! Just to add a bit smile.gif

*Always warmup with some light stretches and slow playing/drills. 5 or 10 minutes should be plenty smile.gif

*Cool down as well. Eg. Light stretches at the end and maybe even use an ice cube or frozen peas for about 5 minutes on your forearems to reduce any tissue swelling after a vigorous session.

Now on to the fun bits!!! I know exactly the feeling you are talking about. I used to get it myself specifically on the pinky and at that point I could no longer fret scales properly using my pinky or do legato. It would just fail to respond or even bend backward and be painful. sad.gif

I'd suggest trying to incorporate a bit more "thumbless" practice if possible. It will reduce the stress/pressure on your fingers. Your pinky is the weakest and most prone to over work and failure. When playing fast, the hand tends to tense up. Removing the thumb from the neck helps reset the hands pressure. smile.gif

You are trying to find the minimum amount of pressure/tension needed to fret the note in the way you want. Finding this point of minimum exertion will allow you to play longer/more/etc. smile.gif The thumb is really just a guide for the hand. But instinctually it creates over pressure on the hand during exertion like stamina/speed runs/drills etc. So pull the thumb out of the equation for a bit smile.gif

Todd


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mertay
post Jan 14 2014, 08:49 PM
Post #8


GMC:er
Group Icon

Group: GMC Senior
Posts: 2.855
Joined: 27-May 13
From: Turkey / izmir
Member No.: 18.294



I think you're dealing with the amount of "enough" strength for both right and left hands.

I'd suggest take warmups as an exercise that tries the adapt the lowest force on the left hand (very similar to Todd's advice). You'll warmup automaticly but the goal is to adapt the perfect touch which takes lots of practice, sort of like kung-fu masters still praticing the basic punch move while they are 90 years old biggrin.gif

As for right hand, to me we all should adapt to at least 2 techniques. For example I use the wrist for stuff that needs high control like string skipping but when doing scale like runs in fast speed I do something very similar or almost the same that Ben talks about here;



So before you work on your brain to adapt new moves, basically start with your body to work in full potential.

As for the cold or burn thing, I also think its a bloodflow thing...turn the heat until your hands don't feel cold when you touch your face tongue.gif if you do, decrease smoking. These should help I hope smile.gif

Also a warning, if you don't do the warmup thing sooner or later you'll get carpal tunnel syndrome

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpal_tunnel_syndrome

This post has been edited by Mertay: Jan 14 2014, 08:50 PM


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sammetal92
post Jan 14 2014, 09:39 PM
Post #9


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 760
Joined: 21-January 13
Member No.: 17.500



QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jan 14 2014, 07:27 PM) *
Todd here smile.gif Some great advice in these posts! Just to add a bit smile.gif

*Always warmup with some light stretches and slow playing/drills. 5 or 10 minutes should be plenty smile.gif

*Cool down as well. Eg. Light stretches at the end and maybe even use an ice cube or frozen peas for about 5 minutes on your forearems to reduce any tissue swelling after a vigorous session.

Now on to the fun bits!!! I know exactly the feeling you are talking about. I used to get it myself specifically on the pinky and at that point I could no longer fret scales properly using my pinky or do legato. It would just fail to respond or even bend backward and be painful. sad.gif

I'd suggest trying to incorporate a bit more "thumbless" practice if possible. It will reduce the stress/pressure on your fingers. Your pinky is the weakest and most prone to over work and failure. When playing fast, the hand tends to tense up. Removing the thumb from the neck helps reset the hands pressure. smile.gif

You are trying to find the minimum amount of pressure/tension needed to fret the note in the way you want. Finding this point of minimum exertion will allow you to play longer/more/etc. smile.gif The thumb is really just a guide for the hand. But instinctually it creates over pressure on the hand during exertion like stamina/speed runs/drills etc. So pull the thumb out of the equation for a bit smile.gif

Todd


Wow, I never ever thought of these things before, and I never came across them either, thanks so much for all that information, I'll incorporate that from my next practice session biggrin.gif And yep, the thumbless practice makes sense, but it'd probably feel weird, at first anyway tongue.gif but I think it can really help smile.gif

QUOTE (Mertay @ Jan 14 2014, 07:49 PM) *
I think you're dealing with the amount of "enough" strength for both right and left hands.

I'd suggest take warmups as an exercise that tries the adapt the lowest force on the left hand (very similar to Todd's advice). You'll warmup automaticly but the goal is to adapt the perfect touch which takes lots of practice, sort of like kung-fu masters still praticing the basic punch move while they are 90 years old biggrin.gif

As for right hand, to me we all should adapt to at least 2 techniques. For example I use the wrist for stuff that needs high control like string skipping but when doing scale like runs in fast speed I do something very similar or almost the same that Ben talks about here;



So before you work on your brain to adapt new moves, basically start with your body to work in full potential.

As for the cold or burn thing, I also think its a bloodflow thing...turn the heat until your hands don't feel cold when you touch your face tongue.gif if you do, decrease smoking. These should help I hope smile.gif

Also a warning, if you don't do the warmup thing sooner or later you'll get carpal tunnel syndrome

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpal_tunnel_syndrome


Thanks for the video, mate, it seems like I've heard and seen those two things in the video but Ben just taught me how to combine the two together tongue.gif that is, how to pick and how to place my hand biggrin.gif I originally got the hand placement tip from Martin Goulding's video here:



And the picking style from Pebber Brown, he calls it sarod picking, but I didn't adopt the technique because I thought that'd be too out of control. Now after seeing Ben pick in that much detail, I can probably take the time to adopt that picking technique smile.gif



And yeah my blood is warm, but its pretty thick too, so it takes time to get flowing properly tongue.gif

Oh crap, CTS looks pretty bad.. sad.gif


--------------------

Download my free guitar and Floyd Rose setup guide: http://www.samsguitars.tk/
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
klasaine
post Jan 14 2014, 10:21 PM
Post #10


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.849
Joined: 30-December 12
From: Los Angeles, CA
Member No.: 17.304



If you've gone from a 1/2 hour to 1 and a half to 2 hours then yeah, you'll have some pain.
And man you gotta warm up or eventually you will hurt yourself ... hurt as in not get better hurt.

*Your hand in the vid looks fine - nice vibrato by the way.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Todd Simpson
post Jan 15 2014, 02:22 AM
Post #11


GMC:er
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 14.754
Joined: 23-December 09
From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Member No.: 8.794



Yeah, CTS is LAME!!!!! I had it in both arms and had to wear immobilizing braces for six months. it was just a nightmare as I couldn't play guitar the entire time sad.gif So yeah WARM UP!!!! smile.gif

Some great advice in this thread smile.gif Follow all these tips and you should be good to go!!!

Todd


QUOTE (sammetal92 @ Jan 14 2014, 03:39 PM) *
Wow, I never ever thought of these things before, and I never came across them either, thanks so much for all that information, I'll incorporate that from my next practice session biggrin.gif And yep, the thumbless practice makes sense, but it'd probably feel weird, at first anyway tongue.gif but I think it can really help smile.gif



Thanks for the video, mate, it seems like I've heard and seen those two things in the video but Ben just taught me how to combine the two together tongue.gif that is, how to pick and how to place my hand biggrin.gif I originally got the hand placement tip from Martin Goulding's video here:



And the picking style from Pebber Brown, he calls it sarod picking, but I didn't adopt the technique because I thought that'd be too out of control. Now after seeing Ben pick in that much detail, I can probably take the time to adopt that picking technique smile.gif



And yeah my blood is warm, but its pretty thick too, so it takes time to get flowing properly tongue.gif

Oh crap, CTS looks pretty bad.. sad.gif



--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sammetal92
post Jan 15 2014, 06:27 AM
Post #12


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 760
Joined: 21-January 13
Member No.: 17.500



Thanks for the great advice everyone smile.gif And yeah I did get into a lot of more practice and playing since I joined GMC tongue.gif it just wasn't boring anymore, I look forward to it now every day biggrin.gif will warm up properly now before playing/practicing, CTS looks baaadddd sad.gif

QUOTE (klasaine @ Jan 14 2014, 09:21 PM) *
*Your hand in the vid looks fine - nice vibrato by the way.


laugh.gif thanks, when I came here, I had no vibrato at all, Ben and Gabriel programmed all that into me, I just polished it a bit tongue.gif


--------------------

Download my free guitar and Floyd Rose setup guide: http://www.samsguitars.tk/
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
klasaine
post Jan 15 2014, 07:55 AM
Post #13


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.849
Joined: 30-December 12
From: Los Angeles, CA
Member No.: 17.304



10 minutes of warm-up is fine (more is better, but ... ). Just some scales, arpeggios and a few stretchy chords and you'll be good to go.

*I'm 51 and I only have very, very minimal repetitive use syndrome. Mostly it's from standing up with a guitar around my neck for about 38 years. I'm actually pretty lucky. I know some guys that have a lot of problems.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cosmin Lupu
post Jan 16 2014, 10:35 AM
Post #14


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 22.808
Joined: 14-June 10
From: Bucharest
Member No.: 10.636



Hey Sam smile.gif Got a magical one for ya - try it out and let me know how it feels:



I've been using it almost daily and it makes my hands feel great smile.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sammetal92
post Jan 16 2014, 11:25 AM
Post #15


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 760
Joined: 21-January 13
Member No.: 17.500



QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Jan 16 2014, 09:35 AM) *
Hey Sam smile.gif Got a magical one for ya - try it out and let me know how it feels:



I've been using it almost daily and it makes my hands feel great smile.gif


Oh my, it works ohmy.gif I've never ever thought of this before! My hands and palms do feel very warmed up after like 5 or 6 minutes biggrin.gif But the weather's pretty cold right now, and the tips of my fingers are still a bit cold after the massage, even though they're a lot warmer than a few minutes ago smile.gif I think its stimulating expansion and contraction of the muscles that's why it works so amazingly smile.gif


--------------------

Download my free guitar and Floyd Rose setup guide: http://www.samsguitars.tk/
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Taka Perry
post Jan 16 2014, 12:27 PM
Post #16


Learning Rock Star
*

Group: Members
Posts: 642
Joined: 16-July 13
From: Australia
Member No.: 18.500



You know, if it's only been happening for 4 days, there a chance that it'll go away in a few days too. Sometimes weird thins happen like that, I've had a few times where pain has put me out for a few days. smile.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Gabriel Leopardi
post Jan 16 2014, 12:39 PM
Post #17


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 29.218
Joined: 3-March 07
From: Argentina
Member No.: 1.289



QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Jan 16 2014, 06:35 AM) *
Hey Sam smile.gif Got a magical one for ya - try it out and let me know how it feels:



I've been using it almost daily and it makes my hands feel great smile.gif



I haven't seen this great video before mate. I will definitely incorporate this warm up for live gigs when I'm backstage and I don't have my guitar with me.

So to sumarize Sam, warming up, stretching, massages, pre and post guitar session are very important. And also trying to avoid extra strength, pressure and tension. Warm up and relax. smile.gif


--------------------
My lessons

Do you need a Guitar Plan?
Join Gab's Army

Check my band:Cirse
Check my soundcloud:Soundcloud

Please subscribe to my:Youtube Channel
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sammetal92
post Jan 16 2014, 09:13 PM
Post #18


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 760
Joined: 21-January 13
Member No.: 17.500



QUOTE (Taka Perry @ Jan 16 2014, 11:27 AM) *
You know, if it's only been happening for 4 days, there a chance that it'll go away in a few days too. Sometimes weird thins happen like that, I've had a few times where pain has put me out for a few days. smile.gif


Yeah but better safe than sorry smile.gif

QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jan 16 2014, 11:39 AM) *
I haven't seen this great video before mate. I will definitely incorporate this warm up for live gigs when I'm backstage and I don't have my guitar with me.

So to sumarize Sam, warming up, stretching, massages, pre and post guitar session are very important. And also trying to avoid extra strength, pressure and tension. Warm up and relax. smile.gif


Yes sir! tongue.gif


--------------------

Download my free guitar and Floyd Rose setup guide: http://www.samsguitars.tk/
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cosmin Lupu
post Jan 17 2014, 08:57 AM
Post #19


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 22.808
Joined: 14-June 10
From: Bucharest
Member No.: 10.636



QUOTE (sammetal92 @ Jan 16 2014, 10:25 AM) *
Oh my, it works ohmy.gif I've never ever thought of this before! My hands and palms do feel very warmed up after like 5 or 6 minutes biggrin.gif But the weather's pretty cold right now, and the tips of my fingers are still a bit cold after the massage, even though they're a lot warmer than a few minutes ago smile.gif I think its stimulating expansion and contraction of the muscles that's why it works so amazingly smile.gif


Surprise, surprise biggrin.gif I had the same feeling when someone here taught me this technique and I literally felt its effect immediately after it was executed. Use it wisely and take the time to do it before every practice session smile.gif I think you should gather all the suggestions in this thread and come up with your own warm up routine, based on all of these!

Thanks Gabe! biggrin.gif Hope you'll incorporate it in your warm up routine as well smile.gif

This post has been edited by Cosmin Lupu: Jan 17 2014, 08:58 AM


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sammetal92
post Jan 17 2014, 11:45 AM
Post #20


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 760
Joined: 21-January 13
Member No.: 17.500



Well, this is what I've been doing since the last two days (I've used a stop watch to approximately calculate how much time I spend on warm up tongue.gif ):

1. Did the massage you told me. (approx. 4 minutes)
2. Did thumbless (as Todd advised) chromatic runs starting from the 5th fret low E string, and ending at the 12th fret high E and then reverse (once only). (approx. 3 minutes)
3. Did Andy James' warm up from here to a metronome to stretch my fingers: http://andyjamesguitaracademy.com/launch-page-1/ and PDF tab: http://andyjamesguitaracademy.com/wp-conte..._Warming_Up.pdf (approx. 3 minutes)

So, in 10 minutes, I'm all ready to rip it out on the guitar biggrin.gif its been working great, I've seen improvement in my stamina and speed.

Also, any new lick/exercise I want to play, after etching it on my muscle memory, I play it a few times thumbless to a metronome and I get a feel of how much pressure I need to put (and not too much) on the strings to make the notes sound, and it helps me build speed when I use my thumb again biggrin.gif

Maybe someone else would like to try all this for once and tell me how it feels tongue.gif Thank you everyone smile.gif


--------------------

Download my free guitar and Floyd Rose setup guide: http://www.samsguitars.tk/
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Fast ReplyReply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 24th July 2017 - 01:50 AM