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jstcrsn
post Jan 29 2014, 01:02 PM
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in our rulers "state of the union" address " , he wants America to raise its minimum wage to 10.10 an hour. Sounds good and kind and bla, bla bla , but that is almost 3 dollars an hour more than what it is now. Obama (you noticed how I capitalized his name to show respect that I don't have) talks about minimum wage jobs as if they are supposed to be the jobs that people raise their family on, They are starter jobs, now sometimes thats all people can find(see the current economy for many examples, under our rulers implementation), but for the vast majority these are young kids, that if they have any brains, usually have a raise beyond that within 3 months. despite the proof for how this trick has always hurt the ones the democrats say they are trying to help
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/peter-...se-unemployment
it has always been in their bag of tricks that some fall for time and time again

do they have minimum wages in your country ?
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Mertay
post Jan 29 2014, 01:44 PM
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I personally don't know a country that hasn't (maybe besides north Korea, everybody there is on minimum wage smile.gif ).

The amount of minimum wage to me doesn't have much to do with ones needs although we like to think like that, in its core its purpose is in-humaine.

Its simply one of the wheels that keeps the economy flowing its standard no matter how strong or weak it is (if no or slow flow, that means the worst has happened). Rising it mostly means the expense (usually by taxes) of everything will raise too sooner or later, turning that plus to a negative in reality and such balance change of income is always preferred to be reflected to the people in a longest term possible so they won't react as strong wink.gif

Minimum wage in Turkey reflects to a big percentage of working class like agriculture (unlike USA the fields here are smaller which means the lands are shared by more people), construction and jobs like you just mentioned that require more (very simply) physical challenge.

But this won't make much sense when comparing countrys cause each has its own balance and acceptance to it, maybe only similarity is that the minimum wage (no matter where) is never enough biggrin.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jan 29 2014, 02:32 PM
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Our president is doing something similar nowadays and the results that are being predicted are the same that the stated here:

"If he gets his way, and the federal minimum wage is increased to $9 per hour from the current $7.25, it will raise the cost of labor in an economy that is hovering just above recession levels. Higher labor costs mean fewer people get hired. Employers have to find ways to do more with less and look for other ways to economize. Unskilled workers get laid off, replaced by machines and higher-skill workers who are more valuable. "

In my country the things are difficult (as in many other countries). There is a lot of corruption, and politicians stealing money as it usually happens, and there are also very powerful rich people who can "stop" the country if there is something in the politician decisions that they don't like. I can notice some good intentions in their goal that is based in letting our industries grow, but they don't' implement good strategies and plans so in the end everything gets worse and people is unhappy.



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vonhotch
post Jan 29 2014, 03:29 PM
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I don't follow politics much, but stuff like this always reminds me of a quote by Thomas Jefferson. "A gov't powerful enough to give you everything you want, is powerful enough to take it away." I think all this would do is cause problems with small business's that can't afford to pay that, and the bigger companies that can are just gonna jack their prices up to compensate anyway.


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SpaseMoonkey
post Jan 29 2014, 05:08 PM
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QUOTE (vonhotch @ Jan 29 2014, 09:29 AM) *
I don't follow politics much, but stuff like this always reminds me of a quote by Thomas Jefferson. "A gov't powerful enough to give you everything you want, is powerful enough to take it away." I think all this would do is cause problems with small business's that can't afford to pay that, and the bigger companies that can are just gonna jack their prices up to compensate anyway.


Yup and as they typically want it, the poor and the rich. No middle ground what so ever.

It upsets me because I started my job 9 years ago at the price they want minimum wage to be. So I went from having a fighting chance, to now I make enough to get by and get some guitars here and there. If it hits that price and the company doesn't compensate it, well I am now poor and may as well apply for some food stamps and government assistance. cool.gif


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Azzaboi
post Jan 29 2014, 05:58 PM
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In New Zealand:

If your 16 or older - min wage is $13.75NZD ($11.36 USD)

If you a kid or starting out as a training with zero experience (<6 months, <40 hours and under the age of 20) - min wage is $11.00NZD ($9.09 USD)

We have low level equal rights jobs, in which even people with disabilities do really good work and get pay reasonably well. You will find some kids however get paid more via other means. My friend worked as a kid part-time at the skate ring, they weren't allowed to fully pay in cash more than $11, so they gave extras as for free skate hire, free food, etc. It's not always about a high pay check.
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klasaine
post Jan 29 2014, 06:35 PM
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The exec order of $10.10 an hour will be for contracted federal agency employees only. It's currently $9.00 an hour.
The proposed across the board federal min wage will have to get through two houses of congress. Pretty unlikely.

12 states already have a min wage higher than the fed level.

The USA is ranked 23rd in the minimum v. median wage in the world.





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TeoWulf
post Jan 29 2014, 08:19 PM
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Our minimum wage in Hungary is 564 huf per hour wich equals percisely 2.5$ And the prices are genarally higher than in America / Western Europe (with the exception of basic food ingredients, wich maybe a little bit cheaper). The current american minimum wage is about 30% higher than our average income. It seems rather unnecessary to raise that.
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AK Rich
post Jan 29 2014, 09:09 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Jan 29 2014, 09:35 AM) *
The exec order of $10.10 an hour will be for contracted federal agency employees only. It's currently $9.00 an hour.
The proposed across the board federal min wage will have to get through two houses of congress. Pretty unlikely.

12 states already have a min wage higher than the fed level.

The USA is ranked 23rd in the minimum v. median wage in the world.

This is correct, but I don't believe he has the authority to raise anyones minimum wages on his own. Federal or Private, Does it need to be raised? Maybe so, but it is beyond his enumerated powers to do it by himself IMO.
A couple stories out today on other executive over reach.
You may agree with it now, but we will see what people think when executive over reach is done by the other party in the future if this allowed to continue.Where does it end?

http://washingtonexaminer.com/attorney-gen...article/2543100

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000...3559838308.html
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Todd Simpson
post Jan 29 2014, 11:49 PM
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Sadly, more and more Americans are raising their family on minimum wage jobs. Those folks with nice, higher paying, jobs usually think min wage jobs are only for teenagers. Again sadly this isn't true anymore. sad.gif Half of Min Wage earners are younger, but HALF ARE NOT. The "other half" are between 25-65 and earning minimum wage to feed their families. Here are the Dept of labor Statistics. We have not hat this many people close to or at poverty in 50 years. It's around 5 million people. And that's not including folks not on the books.

http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2013/ted_20130325.htm

Wages have been stagnant in the U.S. for median income workers for nearly 50 YEARS accounting for inflation. On top of that, in the "great recession" many of the jobs eliminated never came back are not going to come back so now you will find people serving coffee at starbucks with graduate degrees and the people that used to have those jobs are among the "long term unemployed".

But I digress smile.gif In point of fact, Obama is only changing min wage for federal works on federal contracts. He simply "asked" the rest of the nations biz owners to follow suit. Not a demand, not a federal action, not a law, just a simple request to pay workers a bit more. That seems like a overdue request to be honest. But I have noticed a huge negative response on fox news and from right leaning media in general. As if he banished congress or something. Sad.







QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jan 29 2014, 07:02 AM) *
in our rulers "state of the union" address " , he wants America to raise its minimum wage to 10.10 an hour. Sounds good and kind and bla, bla bla , but that is almost 3 dollars an hour more than what it is now. Obama (you noticed how I capitalized his name to show respect that I don't have) talks about minimum wage jobs as if they are supposed to be the jobs that people raise their family on, They are starter jobs, now sometimes thats all people can find(see the current economy for many examples, under our rulers implementation), but for the vast majority these are young kids, that if they have any brains, usually have a raise beyond that within 3 months. despite the proof for how this trick has always hurt the ones the democrats say they are trying to help
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/peter-...se-unemployment
it has always been in their bag of tricks that some fall for time and time again

do they have minimum wages in your country ?


Well said smile.gif But "facts" seem to rarely penetrate the bubble as it were smile.gif

QUOTE (klasaine @ Jan 29 2014, 12:35 PM) *
The exec order of $10.10 an hour will be for contracted federal agency employees only. It's currently $9.00 an hour.
The proposed across the board federal min wage will have to get through two houses of congress. Pretty unlikely.

12 states already have a min wage higher than the fed level.

The USA is ranked 23rd in the minimum v. median wage in the world.


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klasaine
post Jan 30 2014, 12:17 AM
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We Americans have never been real good with 'facts'.

As for fed min wage - and I didn't know this either but yes, the prez can by exec order raise the min wage of federally contracted employees - he, technically, is their (the fed contractors') boss. Also, that raise of 1 dollar and 10 cents will only apply to new contracts. So, in actuality, a minuscule amount of actual workers.

*Minimum wage in the States should be $15.00 an hour.
Min wage jobs haven't been entry level for kids work since the mid 70s. Which exactly coincides with the time CEO pay in this country went from being about 20 X's the average employee wages to 354 X's the average employee wages.
RIP Pete Seeger.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Jan 30 2014, 12:33 AM


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Todd Simpson
post Jan 30 2014, 04:41 AM
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Great info in your post smile.gif And yes, he can decide what people in the "Executive Agencies" can be contracted to be paid. And as you said, it's really only going to impact a small fraction of workers, NOT those working as subcontractors, just direct Federal Executive Agencies contract bidders on new contracts. So it's mostly just a show of effort on a much needed change. Does the Minimum wage need to be raised? Yup. 50 years of stagnant wages is just shameful.

The left leaning news outlets are mostly praising the decision while the far right leaning outlets are saying he's turned in to a "Dictator" and bypassed congress and it's a "slippery slope" to him taking our guns/money/taxes/property/souls etc. smile.gif

Todd




QUOTE (klasaine @ Jan 29 2014, 06:17 PM) *
We Americans have never been real good with 'facts'.

As for fed min wage - and I didn't know this either but yes, the prez can by exec order raise the min wage of federally contracted employees - he, technically, is their (the fed contractors') boss. Also, that raise of 1 dollar and 10 cents will only apply to new contracts. So, in actuality, a minuscule amount of actual workers.

*Minimum wage in the States should be $15.00 an hour.
Min wage jobs haven't been entry level for kids work since the mid 70s. Which exactly coincides with the time CEO pay in this country went from being about 20 X's the average employee wages to 354 X's the average employee wages.
RIP Pete Seeger.



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AK Rich
post Jan 30 2014, 04:42 AM
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If those are the facts then so be it, I am still not so sure but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. And to be honest, the raising of min wage for fed contracted employees or even in the private sector doesn't bother me because I believe min wages are probably too low myself , considering the cost of living these days,but for me this was never the point.
The exec orders I am more concerned with are the ones that circumvent laws already on the books and the threat to circumvent other laws on the books as well as Amendments to the Constitution.
The President took an oath , and it is his duty to make sure that ALL laws are followed faithfully, not pick and choose which ones he likes and ignore the ones he doesn't like, or alter them to fit his agenda or to try and save face.
And these are not just the concerns being brought forth in right wing media, they are also being brought forth in media from the left as well.
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jstcrsn
post Jan 30 2014, 12:25 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Jan 30 2014, 12:17 AM) *
We Americans have never been real good with 'facts'.

As for fed min wage - and I didn't know this either but yes, the prez can by exec order raise the min wage of federally contracted employees - he, technically, is their (the fed contractors') boss. Also, that raise of 1 dollar and 10 cents will only apply to new contracts. So, in actuality, a minuscule amount of actual workers.

*Minimum wage in the States should be $15.00 an hour.
Min wage jobs haven't been entry level for kids work since the mid 70s. Which exactly coincides with the time CEO pay in this country went from being about 20 X's the average employee wages to 354 X's the average employee wages.
RIP Pete Seeger.

ONE QUESTION have you ever owned a small business, delt with employees, tardiness, sick days, government regulations and then tried to make it profitable

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jan 30 2014, 04:41 AM) *
Great info in your post smile.gif And yes, he can decide what people in the "Executive Agencies" can be contracted to be paid. And as you said, it's really only going to impact a small fraction of workers, NOT those working as subcontractors, just direct Federal Executive Agencies contract bidders on new contracts. So it's mostly just a show of effort on a much needed change. Does the Minimum wage need to be raised? Yup. 50 years of stagnant wages is just shameful.

The left leaning news outlets are mostly praising the decision while the far right leaning outlets are saying he's turned in to a "Dictator" and bypassed congress and it's a "slippery slope" to him taking our guns/money/taxes/property/souls etc. smile.gif

Todd

same question
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klasaine
post Jan 30 2014, 05:30 PM
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Yes, albeit very small. Sometimes I have to hire guys and sometimes I don't. Sometimes it's one guy and other times it's 20. I have a business license, I pay city business tax and I do a full sched C for profit and loss. I know what a hassle being the boss can be. I make my living as a guitar player but I also contract gigs (and recording sessions) with and for other musicians. I have to deal with other subcontractors - food, sound, transpo, occasionally insurance, tax IDs, W9s, W2s, union contract forms, release forms etc., make sure everybody who I hire gets paid and replace those (quickly) who either don't show up, get sick or screw up badly enough. I'm not dealing with un-skilled workers so It all pays above minimum wage.

I've also worked since I was 15 years old starting in 1978. Fed unemployment was 10% at that time (very difficult to get any type of job), min wage was $2.65 an hour. In Jan of '79 it rose to $2.90 (about 12%) ... I didn't lose my job at the gift shop. I have a family and a mortgage. My wife works too. She teaches part-time at the community college. We don't make a ton of money but I love my job (and she likes her's). For me that equalizes it.

The hassle it may be for me or for you to deal with the BS associated with being in charge is really not related to someone else's right to earn a living wage. Also, what I personally think min wage should be has nothing to do with what it will be. That's for two houses of congress to decide. My bet is that it won't be raised at all. Or, possibly only by $1.10 and/or scheduled to rise every one or two years with inflation percentage wise.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Jan 30 2014, 06:09 PM


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jstcrsn
post Jan 31 2014, 12:12 AM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Jan 30 2014, 05:30 PM) *
The hassle it may be for me or for you to deal with the BS associated with being in charge is really not related to someone else's right to earn a living wage.

This is baffling me, how did someone get a "right to a living wage"
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Todd Simpson
post Jan 31 2014, 02:09 AM
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Yes I have smile.gif My small biz is called TLX INTERACTIVE (www.tlxinteractive.com) and we pay subcontractors about $35 per hour. It's mostly web work, coding that we sub out. So yes, as a matter of fact I run a small biz and deal with those things you mentioned all the time. And I still manage to pay any contractors a decent wage.

Seems like I"m not the only one to run a small biz smile.gif

Todd






QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jan 30 2014, 06:25 AM) *
ONE QUESTION have you ever owned a small business, delt with employees, tardiness, sick days, government regulations and then tried to make it profitable


same question


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Mr PowerChord
post Jan 31 2014, 02:11 AM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jan 30 2014, 11:12 PM) *
This is baffling me, how did someone get a "right to a living wage"

civilized society's create Countries customs and laws,
it sure beats people resorting to crime to meet basic living standards
I think you have to respect everyone's right to participate and survive
as a contributing member in Society as a basic human dignity
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Todd Simpson
post Jan 31 2014, 02:20 AM
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CRSN, By your answer you then don't think we have a "right" to earn a living wage? I would have to say that we do have at least the right to earn a living. "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness". That last bit would probably cover earning enough to survive wouldn't it?

I have to say you seem really bitter and angry at the POS. He seems rather balanced and thoughtful to me so I must say I don't get it. But then again, I think it depends a LOT on what kind of media you ingest. Too much Fox news can be bad thing smile.gif Any Rush Limbaugh can be a bad thing. I'd suggest adding more international news perspective if possible. Just to balance out the... perspective?

BBC,
PBS News Hour
PBS Business News
DW (English language news made in Germany with a European slant)

etc. I consume news info from Fox and Alex Jones and all the right wing nut jobs. But I also listen to the left wing nut jobs and then I listen to the folks above for some balance. It's really hard to get a balanced view these days but it is possible:)

As I mentioned before I noticed the right leaning outlets playing executive orders as a THREAT TO LIBERTY and his raising of min wage for just a few folks to a sign of things to come and the president "BYPASSING CONGRES". Little mention was made about how many executive orders the BUSH twins or Reagan passed. But again, most of those outlets are propoganda and commentary. Not. "News".


Todd

QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Jan 30 2014, 06:12 PM) *
This is baffling me, how did someone get a "right to a living wage"


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jstcrsn
post Jan 31 2014, 02:51 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jan 31 2014, 02:20 AM) *
CRSN, By your answer you then don't think we have a "right" to earn a living wage? I would have to say that we do have at least the right to earn a living. "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness". That last bit would probably cover earning enough to survive wouldn't it?

I have to say you seem really bitter and angry at the POS. He seems rather balanced and thoughtful to me so I must say I don't get it. But then again, I think it depends a LOT on what kind of media you ingest. Too much Fox news can be bad thing smile.gif Any Rush Limbaugh can be a bad thing. I'd suggest adding more international news perspective if possible. Just to balance out the... perspective?

BBC,
PBS News Hour
PBS Business News
DW (English language news made in Germany with a European slant)

etc. I consume news info from Fox and Alex Jones and all the right wing nut jobs. But I also listen to the left wing nut jobs and then I listen to the folks above for some balance. It's really hard to get a balanced view these days but it is possible:)

As I mentioned before I noticed the right leaning outlets playing executive orders as a THREAT TO LIBERTY and his raising of min wage for just a few folks to a sign of things to come and the president "BYPASSING CONGRES". Little mention was made about how many executive orders the BUSH twins or Reagan passed. But again, most of those outlets are propoganda and commentary. Not. "News".


Todd

I just asked for clarification, and you guys start calling belittling my character, thanks
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