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> Orange Amps Rock!, Rockerverb 50 head demo
Todd Simpson
post Feb 6 2014, 10:30 PM
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Thanks smile.gif It took FOREVER to dial in. I spent nearly two weeks (with the amp and one guitar and OVERLOUD and another guitar, going back and forth, and back and forth) working on ONE PATCH as I couldn't get the "Tubey" character at first. The JIM ROOT respondes in a very specific way to palm muting that's different than the way other amps respond. IT's a bit softer/spungier but still heavy. Trying to capture that was an enormous chore. But finally got it! smile.gif


Todd

QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Feb 6 2014, 03:33 AM) *
Darius, well that means that this is a strong company, man - if they are not making compromises in order to sell more... hats off. It means they are really good at what they do and not afraid that pricey will be their downfall.

Todd - you are a very patient man smile.gif biggrin.gif It sounds very good, but I bet it took some time to dial in, right?


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Cosmin Lupu
post Feb 7 2014, 09:45 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Feb 6 2014, 09:30 PM) *
Thanks smile.gif It took FOREVER to dial in. I spent nearly two weeks (with the amp and one guitar and OVERLOUD and another guitar, going back and forth, and back and forth) working on ONE PATCH as I couldn't get the "Tubey" character at first. The JIM ROOT respondes in a very specific way to palm muting that's different than the way other amps respond. IT's a bit softer/spungier but still heavy. Trying to capture that was an enormous chore. But finally got it! smile.gif


Todd


I thought it would involve a great deal of 'ear training' biggrin.gif See, this is a weak spot for me - I don't have enough patience to noodle with that enormous amount of parameters laugh.gif It makes me feel like I want to run away...

Darius - I know exactly what you're talking about - European prices and USA prices. The bad part is that if you order something from the USA you get to pay taxes when it arrives in Europe, so that in the end you find yourself paying the same amount of money..


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Todd Simpson
post Feb 9 2014, 07:52 PM
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It was rather laborious making the plugin sound like the amp as I had to keep going back and forth and back and forth between amp and sim. It took longer than I've ever spent before or since. After that I gave up on doing tone clones that way smile.gif

QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Feb 7 2014, 03:45 AM) *
I thought it would involve a great deal of 'ear training' biggrin.gif See, this is a weak spot for me - I don't have enough patience to noodle with that enormous amount of parameters laugh.gif It makes me feel like I want to run away...

Darius - I know exactly what you're talking about - European prices and USA prices. The bad part is that if you order something from the USA you get to pay taxes when it arrives in Europe, so that in the end you find yourself paying the same amount of money..


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Palacios
post Feb 9 2014, 08:42 PM
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Great demo Darius,
I actually use an Orange Amp, but much smaller. I unfortunately have neighbors all around me; so I can't get as loud as I'd like. (welcome to San Franciso; I don't know how Journey, Green Day, and Metallica did it.) Its perfect for me. It has a lot of effects, and the tuner on it is very handy. I love that funky British look and sound of it. Ben Higgins would be right at home with it. lol
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Darius Wave
post Feb 9 2014, 10:40 PM
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Go for it biggrin.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Feb 10 2014, 09:25 AM
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QUOTE (Palacios @ Feb 9 2014, 07:42 PM) *
Great demo Darius,
I actually use an Orange Amp, but much smaller. I unfortunately have neighbors all around me; so I can't get as loud as I'd like. (welcome to San Franciso; I don't know how Journey, Green Day, and Metallica did it.) Its perfect for me. It has a lot of effects, and the tuner on it is very handy. I love that funky British look and sound of it. Ben Higgins would be right at home with it. lol


It has incorporated effects, or do you use pedals with the amp? smile.gif


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Darius Wave
post Feb 10 2014, 12:22 PM
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QUOTE (Palacios @ Feb 9 2014, 08:42 PM) *
Great demo Darius,
I actually use an Orange Amp, but much smaller. I unfortunately have neighbors all around me; so I can't get as loud as I'd like. (welcome to San Franciso; I don't know how Journey, Green Day, and Metallica did it.) Its perfect for me. It has a lot of effects, and the tuner on it is very handy. I love that funky British look and sound of it. Ben Higgins would be right at home with it. lol



Yeah...neighbours are usually a problem. I don't keep any of my big amps at home. All are at rehearsal place smile.gif Count me in to the british tone fans list smile.gif


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Palacios
post Feb 11 2014, 12:21 AM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Feb 10 2014, 12:25 AM) *
It has incorporated effects, or do you use pedals with the amp? smile.gif

I do. i just started playing with the distortion pedal. I have a wa wa pedal, but I haven't really used it yet.
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Blister
post Feb 11 2014, 12:41 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Feb 6 2014, 04:30 PM) *
Thanks smile.gif It took FOREVER to dial in. I spent nearly two weeks (with the amp and one guitar and OVERLOUD and another guitar, going back and forth, and back and forth) working on ONE PATCH as I couldn't get the "Tubey" character at first. The JIM ROOT respondes in a very specific way to palm muting that's different than the way other amps respond. IT's a bit softer/spungier but still heavy. Trying to capture that was an enormous chore. But finally got it! smile.gif


Todd


Todd, when you are trying to "clone" a patch, are you doing it strictly by ear?


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Cosmin Lupu
post Feb 11 2014, 08:35 AM
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Hey guys biggrin.gif Got something for ya:

Pantera's 'Walk' - played by my band mate Cezar and filmed yesterday evening at the Domination gig rehearsals - Jim Root orange head, PRS Custom 24 and Marshal 2x12 cab. I was amazed of how good it sounds. There are no in betweens - just guitar, amp, cab - The sound is kind of bad but still... Just thought it would be a cool addition to this thread wink.gif The head belongs to one of his bandmates in his other project and I had a big surprise to find it there. He wasn't in the mood to carry his Mesa rig and took the little guy out, as the rehearsal rooms of both Domination and his other project - Vita De Vie, are door to door smile.gif

Enjoy:



This post has been edited by Cosmin Lupu: Feb 11 2014, 08:37 AM


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Darius Wave
post Feb 11 2014, 01:44 PM
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Those little Orange bastards really do the job biggrin.gif


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Todd Simpson
post Feb 12 2014, 02:05 AM
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YUP!!!! smile.gif No fancy technology involved. I usually just take two guitars, and leave both plugged in and play a bit on each system (amp then plugin) then tweak a bit, rinse, repeat.

I did one for Bens Marshall tone and it took a couple of days but the darn ORANGE has such complexity in the bass/low range of the signal that it was hard to replicate it. The "Character" of the amp is very distinctive and not easy to mimic, or at least it wasn't easy for me smile.gif

Also, keep in mind it's just an "earball" sorta thing so it's far from being exact/correct/similar on a spectrum analyzer/etc. It's really an ear exercise smile.gif

Todd



QUOTE (Blister @ Feb 10 2014, 06:41 PM) *
Todd, when you are trying to "clone" a patch, are you doing it strictly by ear?


Nice!!! I was seriously impressed at how LOUD the little jim root head was when I was trying it out. It was so darn loud that we almost couldn't isolate it. We had it in a soundproof booth using the half power switch and it was still so loud you could hear it through the wall. smile.gif

Todd




QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Feb 11 2014, 02:35 AM) *
Hey guys biggrin.gif Got something for ya:

Pantera's 'Walk' - played by my band mate Cezar and filmed yesterday evening at the Domination gig rehearsals - Jim Root orange head, PRS Custom 24 and Marshal 2x12 cab. I was amazed of how good it sounds. There are no in betweens - just guitar, amp, cab - The sound is kind of bad but still... Just thought it would be a cool addition to this thread wink.gif The head belongs to one of his bandmates in his other project and I had a big surprise to find it there. He wasn't in the mood to carry his Mesa rig and took the little guy out, as the rehearsal rooms of both Domination and his other project - Vita De Vie, are door to door smile.gif

Enjoy:



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Cosmin Lupu
post Feb 12 2014, 08:38 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Feb 12 2014, 01:05 AM) *
YUP!!!! smile.gif No fancy technology involved. I usually just take two guitars, and leave both plugged in and play a bit on each system (amp then plugin) then tweak a bit, rinse, repeat.

I did one for Bens Marshall tone and it took a couple of days but the darn ORANGE has such complexity in the bass/low range of the signal that it was hard to replicate it. The "Character" of the amp is very distinctive and not easy to mimic, or at least it wasn't easy for me smile.gif

Also, keep in mind it's just an "earball" sorta thing so it's far from being exact/correct/similar on a spectrum analyzer/etc. It's really an ear exercise smile.gif

Todd





Nice!!! I was seriously impressed at how LOUD the little jim root head was when I was trying it out. It was so darn loud that we almost couldn't isolate it. We had it in a soundproof booth using the half power switch and it was still so loud you could hear it through the wall. smile.gif

Todd


Brain surgery like, for certain - as I said before Todd, you are a very patient man biggrin.gif

And yeah, it was very loud and small! I was like 'Whoaa, what do we have here!' When I entered the rehearsal room and saw it there.



I found this review which maybe you guys will dig smile.gif



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SeeJay
post May 6 2014, 02:29 PM
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I hate those Tiny Terrors, but that Jim Root Version seems alright. The top end is the tiny terror, dark terror and dual terror is just fizzy crap and you cant dial it out.

I also couldn't vibe with the AD30. I had one in a studio that I tracked some stuff with. It's got 2 channels but they seem to do the same thing. I had a conversation with a buddy who LOVES that model and he said out of the box they aren't setup right. Take it to a good tech and swap a tube or two and you can really do what it's supposed to do.

BUT with all that said,

I LOVE me some Oranges. The OR series is straight up rock and roll. The TH series I think is a solid high gain amp. Surprised it's not getting more love around here.

check it out



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Darius Wave
post May 6 2014, 02:46 PM
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Ha ha smile.gif SeeJay...got to set up for a beer mate wink.gif AD30 didn't convinced me too wink.gif Not because of dynamics (which were cool for playing blues) but...that little fizzy thing happening above the useful guitar midrange smile.gif Seems we have similar taste


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Cosmin Lupu
post May 7 2014, 12:54 PM
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Hehe! I was also surprised by the Jim Root model myself - haven't gotten around to play that much with it, but what I heard was nice at a first try a few months ago. It was in a band context, as we had it for one/two rehearsals with the Pantera tribute. I haven't yet tried other Orange amps, but I am seriously thinking of getting a 2x12 Orange cab.


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SeeJay
post May 7 2014, 03:03 PM
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Darius Wave, I'll hit ya up if I'm ever in Poland. biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

A few years ago I was getting a lot of comments from buddies saying, "I just don't hear what you hear" when we would check out new amps and gear. So it's been a lot of reflection on what I'm hearing and how I try and shape it to help explain myself.

I think I've broken it down to a more emotional context like this:

  • Mids are what will bring legitimacy to your tone. More mids means a more forward tone. It's the best place to define YOUR sound.
  • Highs are what can tickle your ears, bring some excitement. (side note: A byproduct of high gain can be that fizzy high end)
  • Lows are just where your balls are. It will determine how strong your tone is. Just like everything, if you don't have a good foundation, you won't hold up well.
  • And MOST important is just balancing those ideas to further help you express what you want to say by playing guitar.


These are what moods I think each represent to me, I'm not talking in the technical world of "well my pick noise is in the high mids", blah blah blah.

Amps like the Tiny Terror, when you turn them on and you've got the gain low but there's that crap, fizz high end frustrate me. It shows me that the way it's designed to REACT is very locked in. I want an amp that blossoms and shifts and warms as I start moving knobs.

But this is all me. Some dudes just pop up a few knobs, stare at their guitars the whole time and are happy.

QUOTE (Darius Wave @ May 6 2014, 01:46 PM) *
Ha ha smile.gif SeeJay...got to set up for a beer mate wink.gif AD30 didn't convinced me too wink.gif Not because of dynamics (which were cool for playing blues) but...that little fizzy thing happening above the useful guitar midrange smile.gif Seems we have similar taste


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Cosmin Lupu
post May 8 2014, 09:11 AM
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QUOTE (SeeJay @ May 7 2014, 02:03 PM) *
Darius Wave, I'll hit ya up if I'm ever in Poland. biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

A few years ago I was getting a lot of comments from buddies saying, "I just don't hear what you hear" when we would check out new amps and gear. So it's been a lot of reflection on what I'm hearing and how I try and shape it to help explain myself.

I think I've broken it down to a more emotional context like this:

  • Mids are what will bring legitimacy to your tone. More mids means a more forward tone. It's the best place to define YOUR sound.
  • Highs are what can tickle your ears, bring some excitement. (side note: A byproduct of high gain can be that fizzy high end)
  • Lows are just where your balls are. It will determine how strong your tone is. Just like everything, if you don't have a good foundation, you won't hold up well.
  • And MOST important is just balancing those ideas to further help you express what you want to say by playing guitar.


These are what moods I think each represent to me, I'm not talking in the technical world of "well my pick noise is in the high mids", blah blah blah.

Amps like the Tiny Terror, when you turn them on and you've got the gain low but there's that crap, fizz high end frustrate me. It shows me that the way it's designed to REACT is very locked in. I want an amp that blossoms and shifts and warms as I start moving knobs.

But this is all me. Some dudes just pop up a few knobs, stare at their guitars the whole time and are happy.


I think this is one of the nicest ways to describe guitar tone smile.gif kudos man - you really nailed it in human language! I always found ways to describe pretty much everything music related in such a way that people should understand it without running scared of decibels and parameters and all that jive, but you opened my eyes to a nice and comprehensive way in which I can talk about tone! Thank you!


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Darius Wave
post May 8 2014, 03:03 PM
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I'm now making experimnts to find best amp set up and very precise mic for live gigs. In my case best recording tones comes usually with mic on the cone and defult eq settings but there is no way I could stand that tone coming from the amp at stage volume level so now I work on getting best placement for high volume transpitions. I really hate what most popular guitar mics does with the treble.

What I mean is...I always set amp the guitar tone being exaclty at speakers height right in the face smile.gif I like to be sure people in front of the amp (in case of pub playing) don't get any harshness. but even if the tone is warm as hell (at high volume, of course it would be useless for recordings) I found that on the front speakers it still could be screwed. The biggest challenge here is how to get rid of treble (moving the mic off center) but at the same time not get too much bass.

One of the very popular situations on stage is to hear from the sound engeneer "man...roll down some bass" and the answer is..."man...it's already on zero!" biggrin.gif So the purpose of my experiments is to get compromise - nice tone on stage and well transmited on the front speakers.

By far what I can say is that the type of amps I like ( the RH30 for exmaple) has not a huge low end issues (much less lows on default position than some reference high gain amps) work best with 5 cm mic distance, off center (cone) and treble roll off to 25%. More or less doing this without any additional tweaking gives me acceptable toe for recordings (acceptable = refering to my taste)
But I could not stand that tone on stage (I mean....we hear different when the volume goes up) no the more "off center" I give the mic, i can still hear nasty 4-6 kHz boost but I loose some juicy high mids.

I had a few more ideas to make tons of another tests:

1. acoustic foam glues to the cabinet cloth only at the cap range - sort of natural LPF. This will provide best high mids, smallest low boost and overall....most even tone. But without a foam it's ugly as hell - even warm tone from the speaker, the mic treble boost destry it all...

2. SM57 mod - I found some german doing simple, passive circuit (a few coils, caps and pot) to flatten then natural 4-6 kHz boost of SM57. This could make me able to move the mic closer to the cap and again....get better translation between what I hear from the speaker and what the audience hear



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klasaine
post May 8 2014, 04:11 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ May 8 2014, 07:03 AM) *
1. acoustic foam glues to the cabinet cloth only at the cap range - sort of natural LPF. This will provide best high mids, smallest low boost and overall....most even tone. But without a foam it's ugly as hell - even warm tone from the speaker, the mic treble boost destry it all...


That's a 'trick' that a lot of guitarists (and pedal steel players) will do with a Fender Twin Reverb (or even a JC-120) ...
Cut out pieces of thick cardboard, about the diameter of a coffee can, and glue it to the inside of the grill directly over the dust cap. On a backlined amp they'll tape it to the front of the grill. I've done this a few times - works like a charm live when the super high end is just 'beaming' right at the fist three rows.
*There's even a product you can buy for this ... http://www.webervst.com/blocker.html


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