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> Behemoth's Nergal: The Majority Of U.s. Death Metal Bands Are "boring And Generic"
Todd Simpson
post Feb 11 2014, 01:16 AM
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Just saw this post from NERGAL of the band BEHOMOTH
(Interview in Ghost Cult Web Zine)
http://www.ghostcultmag.com/interview-nergal-of-behemoth/

and I hate to say it I think he has a point. For far too long every band wanting to be "Heavy" has been trying to out Meshuggah, Meshuggah themselves and just down tune every song to "djentify" it and allowing the drummers to play far to many blast beats or nothing but blast beats. As a result manyx of the bands are starting to sound so much alike in the extreme metal scene that there's no point given them separate names and very little point to given the songs/albums names. sad.gif

At some point it starts to remind me of EDM (electronic dance music). Just the way that EDM has the classic Thump, Tsss, Thump, tss disco drum beat, extreme metallers are overly reliant on the blast beat and cook monster vocals to the extent that even though I love metal, my ears are pressed to make any distinction in bands/songs/etc.

I wanted to ask what you guys though and what you think can be done? Also, where do you see heavy music going in 2014 now that there are soooooooo many bands sounding soooo much alike? Historically, this is the point where there is a MAJOR shift in music. E.g. From Glam Metal To Grunge etc. So I'm hopeful a change is coming smile.gif

Here is a link to a vid someone did of the "top djent bands". Close your eyes and listen and take note of similarities of vocal/guitar/etc.

DISCLAIMER: Obviously, any "style" of music will have similarities between songs in a genre. That's not really what I"m talking about here. sad.gif



This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Feb 11 2014, 01:17 AM


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audiopaal
post Feb 11 2014, 09:46 AM
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I totally agree with Nergal.
Listen to their new album "The Satanist", that's one of the best Death Metal albums I've ever heard,
And listen to Vader, another and just as great polish death metal band in my opinion.
Now that's Death Metal :-)
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Ben Higgins
post Feb 11 2014, 10:19 AM
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He's probably right.. and in fact, this is a long overdue statement.. he could have said this a long time ago and still been correct.

How to change things ? I always find that the best leaders lead by example and inspire others to rise to the challenge by wanting to emulate those they admire. In my observations, genres shift and evolve when one band comes along with something better and something worth changing for, if that makes sense ? I think this stuff happens naturally when a band or artist is just doing it naturally though, not deliberately trying to influence a genre. Not that Nergal is doing that but you get what I mean smile.gif

Satyricon are another example of a black metal band who have evolved far from their roots.. they're doing it for nobody other than themselves. It's all about exploration. They're right, a well. A lot of fans misunderstand this following idea but:

A musician creates music only for themselves. This was the way it was when they were a nobody so why would it be any different when they're a somebody ? Those that like the music want to be part of the journey. Those that don't, don't. But the music is never created 'for' the fans.. the fans just happen to like it.

One of the only high profile musicians who's said words to that effect is Lars Ulrich and he caught hell for it. The fans totally misunderstood him. What he meant was that you have to be satisfying your own musical desires first, otherwise you're being contrived. It's always been that way and always will.

This post has been edited by Ben Higgins: Feb 11 2014, 10:21 AM


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Feb 11 2014, 01:05 PM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Feb 11 2014, 06:19 AM) *
A musician creates music only for themselves.



I'm not sure if I misunderstand this phrase because my main language is Spanish, if that's happening please let me know. But I would say that musicians creates music "from" themselves (their own personality / soul) instead as "for" themselves. Why would they express a message or a feeling if there is nobody to receive it?

QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Feb 10 2014, 09:16 PM) *
Just saw this post from NERGAL of the band BEHOMOTH
(Interview in Ghost Cult Web Zine)
http://www.ghostcultmag.com/interview-nergal-of-behemoth/

and I hate to say it I think he has a point. For far too long every band wanting to be "Heavy" has been trying to out Meshuggah, Meshuggah themselves and just down tune every song to "djentify" it and allowing the drummers to play far to many blast beats or nothing but blast beats. As a result manyx of the bands are starting to sound so much alike in the extreme metal scene that there's no point given them separate names and very little point to given the songs/albums names. sad.gif

At some point it starts to remind me of EDM (electronic dance music). Just the way that EDM has the classic Thump, Tsss, Thump, tss disco drum beat, extreme metallers are overly reliant on the blast beat and cook monster vocals to the extent that even though I love metal, my ears are pressed to make any distinction in bands/songs/etc.

I wanted to ask what you guys though and what you think can be done? Also, where do you see heavy music going in 2014 now that there are soooooooo many bands sounding soooo much alike? Historically, this is the point where there is a MAJOR shift in music. E.g. From Glam Metal To Grunge etc. So I'm hopeful a change is coming smile.gif

Here is a link to a vid someone did of the "top djent bands". Close your eyes and listen and take note of similarities of vocal/guitar/etc.

DISCLAIMER: Obviously, any "style" of music will have similarities between songs in a genre. That's not really what I"m talking about here. sad.gif




This usually happens when a style becomes popular and the only band that remain through the years are the founders and the ones that has their own personality. This happens to me with Post-Hardore and Metalcore bands... sometimes I feel like listening to the same band while I listening to a Spotify radio. laugh.gif

The future of metal? I don't think that it can happen something like 90's grunge because Metal isn't mainstream but I think that we are reaching a limit of "low tuning" and "sick progressive" stuff, they cannot go lower of sicker biggrin.gif. I think that a good change would be to get back to real band sound, real musicians playing live at the studio, against ultra produced stuff. The human factor will start being more and more important... that's my prognostic...





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Darius Wave
post Feb 11 2014, 01:41 PM
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Topis is very sensitive since it's easy to say the same about many genres of music. But aside from this...some bands make me proud to be Polish biggrin.gif


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Ben Higgins
post Feb 11 2014, 02:14 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Feb 11 2014, 12:05 PM) *
I'm not sure if I misunderstand this phrase because my main language is Spanish, if that's happening please let me know. But I would say that musicians creates music "from" themselves (their own personality / soul) instead as "for" themselves. Why would they express a message or a feeling if there is nobody to receive it?


You are right in what you say... I mean that we don't create music to 'please' other people. Firstly, the music we create has to be something we want to create smile.gif


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audiopaal
post Feb 11 2014, 03:11 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Feb 11 2014, 01:41 PM) *
Topis is very sensitive since it's easy to say the same about many genres of music. But aside from this...some bands make me proud to be Polish biggrin.gif

I have seen both Vader and Behemoth live a few times, and those dudes must have something in their drinking water..
Tight and perfect execution of their songs every single time. I'm utterly impressed :-)
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Ben Higgins
post Feb 11 2014, 03:33 PM
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QUOTE (audiopaal @ Feb 11 2014, 02:11 PM) *
I have seen both Vader and Behemoth live a few times, and those dudes must have something in their drinking water..
Tight and perfect execution of their songs every single time. I'm utterly impressed :-)


This must be their secret !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kielbasa


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Darius Wave
post Feb 11 2014, 04:12 PM
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Both bands have a fully professional attitude for what they're doing. They are far from "metal dude living style" standards...All the rehearsals, recording demosand constant hard work is just an act of respect for the listener.


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klasaine
post Feb 11 2014, 04:35 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Feb 11 2014, 04:05 AM) *
I'm not sure if I misunderstand this phrase because my main language is Spanish, if that's happening please let me know. But I would say that musicians creates music "from" themselves (their own personality / soul) instead as "for" themselves. Why would they express a message or a feeling if there is nobody to receive it?


I think it's both.
It's really nice, fulfilling and nourishing to the creative process when other people receive and hopefully appreciate your art. But a true artist/creator doesn't 'need' that. They do it because they have to.
(Your english is excellent G)

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dark_dude
post Feb 11 2014, 06:26 PM
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Also agree with Nergal!

A note on some of the similarities in the 'top 10 djent bands - 2010' vid: #10's singer is Sikth's (#6) singer and one of the guitarists from Aliases (#9) is also one of Sikth's guitarists.

SikTh have been around for a while - the song in the vid came out in 2003 and they've had a big influence on that scene since.


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Todd Simpson
post Feb 12 2014, 01:59 AM
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Some great replies!!! Well said and well written guys!!! I"m glad it's not just me that thinks Nergal has a point. I don't mean to bash metal as I FREAKING LOVE METAL, but it's been harder and harder as a fan to find things to listen to are not afraid to "break a few rules"

**(DISCLAIMER: NOT to say there aren't great bands doing great new things, there are great bands, new bands and others doing great things, just not enough IMHO as so many are starting to sound so similar)

I have read interviews by musicians I respect to the bone and they said, essentially, that Metal is by it's very nature, somewhat restrictive in terms of what is and isn't permissible/acceptable by the listeners/fans. I hate to admit it but as a fan I'm guilty of this some of the time. I want my CARCASS to sound like CARCASS. I"m thrilled that the new carcass sounds a lot like the old carcass but therein lies the rub.

We want new music, new sounds, etc. But at the same time, we have certain expectations of certain bands that serve to keep those bands hemmed in and partially leads to the problem. I have a new respect for BEHEMOTH as they have done something so bold as to push the boundaries of "Black Metal" which is the most traditional/purist/elitist (typically speaking and in broad terms) of all Metal Forms and has some of the least forgiving fans. Despite the risk, behemoth have created a masterful album that doesn't obey the traditional black metal rules start to finish. A good example of a band obeying the rules would be MARDUK. Great black metal, but sooooooooo traditionalist as to be repetitive/wallpaper.

There is a great interview with BEHEMOTH in the new issue of DECIBEL magazine (the only Metal rag I still read and in magazine form even!) which is where I got the quote for this article. Nergal says they have gone beyond black metal, and that such labels really don't apply to them anymore as they has broken all the "rules" of being "Black Metal" and just consider themselves "A Band".

I hope we see more of this in 2014. And I hope I have big enough ears to appreciate it.


Todd

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klasaine
post Feb 12 2014, 05:29 AM
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Daryl Hall says that there are two secrets to popularity in the music biz ...
1) never change.
2) change all the time.


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Palacios
post Feb 12 2014, 07:35 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Feb 10 2014, 04:16 PM) *
Just saw this post from NERGAL of the band BEHOMOTH
(Interview in Ghost Cult Web Zine)
http://www.ghostcultmag.com/interview-nergal-of-behemoth/

and I hate to say it I think he has a point. For far too long every band wanting to be "Heavy" has been trying to out Meshuggah, Meshuggah themselves and just down tune every song to "djentify" it and allowing the drummers to play far to many blast beats or nothing but blast beats. As a result manyx of the bands are starting to sound so much alike in the extreme metal scene that there's no point given them separate names and very little point to given the songs/albums names. sad.gif

At some point it starts to remind me of EDM (electronic dance music). Just the way that EDM has the classic Thump, Tsss, Thump, tss disco drum beat, extreme metallers are overly reliant on the blast beat and cook monster vocals to the extent that even though I love metal, my ears are pressed to make any distinction in bands/songs/etc.

I wanted to ask what you guys though and what you think can be done? Also, where do you see heavy music going in 2014 now that there are soooooooo many bands sounding soooo much alike? Historically, this is the point where there is a MAJOR shift in music. E.g. From Glam Metal To Grunge etc. So I'm hopeful a change is coming smile.gif

Here is a link to a vid someone did of the "top djent bands". Close your eyes and listen and take note of similarities of vocal/guitar/etc.

DISCLAIMER: Obviously, any "style" of music will have similarities between songs in a genre. That's not really what I"m talking about here. sad.gif


Thanks for sharing the video Todd. To be perfectly honest; I thought they all sucked. The #1 was kinda interesting. Don't get me wrong I love metal, but I haven't heard a really good metal song in a long time. It's like they take the same shit, and recycle it. They sometimes add something minor to the background, but thats about it. To be fair though; I haven't heard enough of the recent metal bands, and I grew up with Rush, Danzig, Dio, Megadeth, Metallica, and Slayer. To me they had uniqueness to them. I definantly respect the guitar work that goes into a lot of metal bands. I defiantly couldn't play a lot of the lead solos they play; then again it isn't really the genre I play.
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Ben Higgins
post Feb 12 2014, 10:48 AM
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The funny thing is, if you ask most metal fans what metal is about they'll give you the usual about how it's breaking the rules, not conforming, not having others tell you what you can / can't do. The bottom line is it's about freedom.

Despite all that, there's sure a lot of rules for such a free minded community eh ? rolleyes.gif


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klasaine
post Feb 12 2014, 03:08 PM
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Other than truly, truly oppressed groups [of people] most folks who scream about 'freedom' have no f'n idea about what it really is ... and they wouldn't like it once they encountered it and had to deal with it. Music and otherwise.

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Ben Higgins
post Feb 12 2014, 03:46 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Feb 12 2014, 02:08 PM) *
Other than truly, truly oppressed groups [of people] most folks who scream about 'freedom' have no f'n idea about what it really is ... and they wouldn't like it once they encountered it and had to deal with it. Music and otherwise.


I can't quite work out if you're agreeing with my observations, disagreeing, or kind of making a jibe ??

Obviously the written word is very open to misinterpretation smile.gif


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klasaine
post Feb 12 2014, 11:40 PM
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Agreeing with you.
Those that scream about freedom, whether it be artistic or political, usually have no idea how to deal with it once they are confronted with it. Freedom is also a responsibility - again both in art and life. Lets just take art ...
"Here folks, I'm not gonna tell you what you can or can't do. Make me a song ... and make it good".
1) what's 'good'?
2) how do we quantify it?
3) who's worthy of quantifying it?
I'm not saying that good does or doesn't exist. I'm also not saying that an arbiter of 'good' should or shouldn't exist.

It's a hard thing to have have an opinion and make a statement. It's a lot easier to just fit into a pre-existing box.

I'm all for parameters (I like restrictions - they make me think) but I feel one can and should work to the very limits of the parameters - stretching, pulling, contorting, twisting, deconstructing and reconstructing them until all of the recognizable elements are put into places where no one ever thought they could fit.

Kinda like Picasso (or Braque or Dali). He was always figurative and representational ... only in ways no one ever saw before.
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Palacios
post Feb 13 2014, 02:02 AM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Feb 12 2014, 02:40 PM) *
Agreeing with you.
Those that scream about freedom, whether it be artistic or political, usually have no idea how to deal with it once they are confronted with it. Freedom is also a responsibility - again both in art and life. Lets just take art ...
"Here folks, I'm not gonna tell you what you can or can't do. Make me a song ... and make it good".
1) what's 'good'?
2) how do we quantify it?
3) who's worthy of quantifying it?
I'm not saying that good does or doesn't exist. I'm also not saying that an arbiter of 'good' should or shouldn't exist.

It's a hard thing to have have an opinion and make a statement. It's a lot easier to just fit into a pre-existing box.

I'm all for parameters (I like restrictions - they make me think) but I feel one can and should work to the very limits of the parameters - stretching, pulling, contorting, twisting, deconstructing and reconstructing them until all of the recognizable elements are put into places where no one ever thought they could fit.

Kinda like Picasso (or Braque or Dali). He was always figurative and representational ... only in ways no one ever saw before.
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Exactly what my friend from the South said. Music these days is about being just the right amount of wrong. They want the illusion of different; but still marketable. Cosmin actually has a great quote on his GMC page video. Make sure you sound like you. Who cares if you never become famous. Who cares if playing guitar becomes nothing more than a hobby. ñico rojas; the great Cuban guitarist; didn't play guitar for a living. He was a civil engineer. Guitar was his hobby. People said he used to sit in his office with guitar music playing in the background constantly. Years later I play his compositions and interpretations because they have such a unique sound. His sound outlived him, and many other made to order musicians.
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Todd Simpson
post Feb 13 2014, 10:55 AM
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To each his own smile.gif Not really pimping behemoth, just agreeing with Nergal. But now that you mention it, for folks who like this type of thing this album is considered one of the best they have ever done and is expected to finally bring some needed change/progress to the Black/Blackened/etc. etc. scene. Goodness knows it could use It smile.gif

I dig all the bands you mentioned btw, but I like a LOT of metal smile.gif If you still dig the vibe of those acts, maybe checkout some of the bands in the THRASH REVIVAL movement like HAVOC, RAMMING SPEED and EVILE. (Side note, I"m actually listed on the linear notes of the new EVILE cd, they did a kick starter campaign to help fund the album and I pitched in being a fan and all, killer band)

Todd

QUOTE (Palacios @ Feb 12 2014, 01:35 AM) *
Thanks for sharing the video Todd. To be perfectly honest; I thought they all sucked. The #1 was kinda interesting. Don't get me wrong I love metal, but I haven't heard a really good metal song in a long time. It's like they take the same shit, and recycle it. They sometimes add something minor to the background, but thats about it. To be fair though; I haven't heard enough of the recent metal bands, and I grew up with Rush, Danzig, Dio, Megadeth, Metallica, and Slayer. To me they had uniqueness to them. I definantly respect the guitar work that goes into a lot of metal bands. I defiantly couldn't play a lot of the lead solos they play; then again it isn't really the genre I play.


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