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verciazghra
post Mar 9 2014, 10:47 PM
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I think Spock wrote that letter.


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Palacios
post Mar 10 2014, 06:30 AM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Mar 9 2014, 12:20 PM) *
now I'm more confused. It has very different meanings... blink.gif

In the US we have a lot of groups with various political ideologies. I personally would probably be considered Liberal. The Republicans would be considered conservative, and Democrats Liberal. Usually you can tell someone is of the extreme right when they say that FAUX news is fair and balanced. Within the Republicans are a group called the Tea Party.(Named after the group who initiated the American Revolution from Britain.) The Tea party is the extreme conservative element of the Republican party. They want to gut all of our social safety net programs,(especially Obamacare) and give the military unlimited amounts of money. They think that by eliminating the government; they can create a Utopia based on a anarchist form of free market Capitalism.(Similar to Somalia, or Rome after the Empire fell.) They are the ones who almost caused the US to default on it's debt potentially throwing the world into a financial Armageddon. They are starting to take a lot of heat by not only the Republican party, but mainstream America as well. Here in the SF Bay area they are absolutely abhorred. In fact if you tell somebody here your a Tea Party member; people will think your mentally defective. Quite naturally people have adopted the name "Tea Bagger" for somebody who is a member of this group of pseudo patriots. I honestly had no idea it also meant definition #2 in the Urban Dictionary. I have since apologized to Rich for unknowingly calling people who are members of the Tea Party definition #2. laugh.gif

This post has been edited by Palacios: Mar 10 2014, 06:31 AM
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AK Rich
post Mar 10 2014, 08:13 AM
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QUOTE (Palacios @ Mar 9 2014, 09:30 PM) *
In the US we have a lot of groups with various political ideologies. I personally would probably be considered Liberal. The Republicans would be considered conservative, and Democrats Liberal. Usually you can tell someone is of the extreme right when they say that FAUX news is fair and balanced. Within the Republicans are a group called the Tea Party.(Named after the group who initiated the American Revolution from Britain.) The Tea party is the extreme conservative element of the Republican party. They want to gut all of our social safety net programs,(especially Obamacare) and give the military unlimited amounts of money. They think that by eliminating the government; they can create a Utopia based on a anarchist form of free market Capitalism.(Similar to Somalia, or Rome after the Empire fell.) They are the ones who almost caused the US to default on it's debt potentially throwing the world into a financial Armageddon. They are starting to take a lot of heat by not only the Republican party, but mainstream America as well. Here in the SF Bay area they are absolutely abhorred. In fact if you tell somebody here your a Tea Party member; people will think your mentally defective. Quite naturally people have adopted the name "Tea Bagger" for somebody who is a member of this group of pseudo patriots. I honestly had no idea it also meant definition #2 in the Urban Dictionary. I have since apologized to Rich for unknowingly calling people who are members of the Tea Party definition #2. laugh.gif


You forgot to add in your opinion to that, since that is all it is , and is a complete misrepresentation of what the Teaparty actually stands for.
This is the tea party platform.

http://www.teaparty-platform.com/

Regarding the term "teabaggers" It is a term used by the extreme left and is indeed meant to be completely disrespectful. Just as "libtards"(you won't catch me using this term) is used to describe the left by the extreme right and is also completely disrespectful. they are both derogatory and disrespectful and have no place in any meaningful political discussion. And once you start using those names to address whichever side, you lose any credibility and come across just looking like an ass.

Also if you care to do some fact checking on your previous claims of lower deficits, debt, unemployment etc under Obama. you will find numerous fact checks that show some of those claims are completely false, while others are half true at best. I am not going to do your homework for you, I have enough of it to do on my own to try and get to the bottom of what is reasonably true and what is total BS.

And what you say about the views of people in the SF Bay area just goes to show the intolerance of the left to any view that isn't their own. A bit hypocritical don't you think?

And Speaking of mental deficiency. It is interesting you mentioned that because the same is said about liberalism by various psychiatrist's and is explained why in this opinion. Just sayin' wink.gif

http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/Liberalism-...sorder-20131022

It is also a history of liberalism, what it was and what it has become.



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jstcrsn
post Mar 10 2014, 11:49 AM
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just like to add number 8 and 9 fron the tea party pledge

:8. Believe in the People - The American people, given their guaranteed freedoms, will thrive in a democratic, capitalist environment which allows individuals to strive toward ever greater achievements, innovations and the efficient production of needed and valued goods and services.

“Industry need not wish.” --Benjamin Franklin

“Government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the Earth.” --Abraham Lincoln

“The people will save their government, if the government itself will allow them.” --Abraham Lincoln

Tea Party Platform continued:

9. Avoid the Pitfalls of Politics - American politics is burdened by big money from lobbyists and special interests with an undue influence on the peoples’ representatives. The Tea Party movement is seen as a threat to the entrenched political parties and thus is the continual target of smear campaigns and misrepresentation of its ideals. We choose not to respond to these attacks except to strongly and explicitly disavow any and all hate speech, any and all violence as well as insinuations of violence, and any and all extreme and fringe elements that bring discredit to the Tea Party Movement. We are a peaceful movement and respect other's opinions and views even though they do not agree with our own. We stand by the Tea Party beliefs and goals and choose to focus our energies on ensuring that our government representatives do the same. "

you can tell by the smear that I have been given in this thread(and other threads) ,and wanting to do away with those tactics somehow makes me the bad guy

while 8 says believe in the people. This is a major difference in our parties .The Left believes more in the philosophy that Government is good and needs to "help" put things in perspective and even things out.And before you go there , this doesn't mean we don't want any as we know in is necessary to keep many things in check

by the way there was not any anarchy , rape,lawlessness, leaving a mess for tax payers to clean up at Tea Party rallies like there was at the so called "we are the 99 " rallies

This post has been edited by jstcrsn: Mar 10 2014, 11:52 AM
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Palacios
post Mar 10 2014, 09:04 PM
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QUOTE (AK Rich @ Mar 10 2014, 12:13 AM) *
You forgot to add in your opinion to that, since that is all it is , and is a complete misrepresentation of what the Teaparty actually stands for.
This is the tea party platform.

http://www.teaparty-platform.com/

Regarding the term "teabaggers" It is a term used by the extreme left and is indeed meant to be completely disrespectful. Just as "libtards"(you won't catch me using this term) is used to describe the left by the extreme right and is also completely disrespectful. they are both derogatory and disrespectful and have no place in any meaningful political discussion. And once you start using those names to address whichever side, you lose any credibility and come across just looking like an ass.

Also if you care to do some fact checking on your previous claims of lower deficits, debt, unemployment etc under Obama. you will find numerous fact checks that show some of those claims are completely false, while others are half true at best. I am not going to do your homework for you, I have enough of it to do on my own to try and get to the bottom of what is reasonably true and what is total BS.

And what you say about the views of people in the SF Bay area just goes to show the intolerance of the left to any view that isn't their own. A bit hypocritical don't you think?

And Speaking of mental deficiency. It is interesting you mentioned that because the same is said about liberalism by various psychiatrist's and is explained why in this opinion. Just sayin' wink.gif

http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/Liberalism-...sorder-20131022

It is also a history of liberalism, what it was and what it has become.

Alright Rich. I respect your opinion, but I disagree. I already apologize for calling the author of the letter a "Tea Bagger". Like I said I had no idea it also meant definition #2. Besides the person who started this thread was expressing his opinion about our president, and I'm entitled to respond to that opinion with my own. The Tea Party is fueled by misinformation. In my opinion it has hurt a lot of people who would have otherwise taken advantage of Obamacare, but decided not to because the Tea Party pundits have villianized it as Communist, and Socialism; even though it relies on private insurers. The real travesty is the Governors of these red states that won't even implement the law. The Tea party is really Ayn Rand philosophy about how evil government is, and advocates elimination of our social safety nets. It obviously isn't about how horrible the taxes are in the US. Just ask our European friends about high taxes, and you'll realize the taxes in the US are pretty low. Here's an article from the BBC I read the other day that actually illistrates this point.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26327114
The real problem is that if anyone suggests raising taxes on the wealthiest few in our country; the Tea Party propaganda machine fueled with Koch Brothers money ramps up in full force. The Republicans and their hero Grover Norquist already showed they would be willing to destroy our credit; which is fiscally irresponsible; just to keep the ultra rich from paying more.
Keep in mind I support free markets, but we need regulations to make sure everyone is playing fairly, and not harming other peoples rights as well.

This post has been edited by Palacios: Mar 10 2014, 09:05 PM
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AK Rich
post Mar 11 2014, 12:24 AM
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QUOTE (Palacios @ Mar 10 2014, 12:04 PM) *
Alright Rich. I respect your opinion, but I disagree. I already apologize for calling the author of the letter a "Tea Bagger". Like I said I had no idea it also meant definition #2. Besides the person who started this thread was expressing his opinion about our president, and I'm entitled to respond to that opinion with my own. The Tea Party is fueled by misinformation. In my opinion it has hurt a lot of people who would have otherwise taken advantage of Obamacare, but decided not to because the Tea Party pundits have villianized it as Communist, and Socialism; even though it relies on private insurers. The real travesty is the Governors of these red states that won't even implement the law. The Tea party is really Ayn Rand philosophy about how evil government is, and advocates elimination of our social safety nets. It obviously isn't about how horrible the taxes are in the US. Just ask our European friends about high taxes, and you'll realize the taxes in the US are pretty low. Here's an article from the BBC I read the other day that actually illistrates this point.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26327114
The real problem is that if anyone suggests raising taxes on the wealthiest few in our country; the Tea Party propaganda machine fueled with Koch Brothers money ramps up in full force. The Republicans and their hero Grover Norquist already showed they would be willing to destroy our credit; which is fiscally irresponsible; just to keep the ultra rich from paying more.
Keep in mind I support free markets, but we need regulations to make sure everyone is playing fairly, and not harming other peoples rights as well.

Ok, one point at a time then. (No idea about the definition of the term you used?)
Since you live in an urban area I find it highly unlikely that you were unaware of the definition and how it is most commonly used, and especially since most everyone who has posted in this thread seems to know. So forgive me if I find your claim of not knowing, and your apology as less than sincere.

(The person starting the thread expressing an opinion about the Pres?)
I don't see an opinion in the opening post of this thread , you drew your own conclusion as to that although it is obvious what Cursin's political views are.I don't see his opinion expressed until he was responding to some of your posts.

(Entitled to respond to an opinion with your own?)
Has anyone said you couldn't?
I certainly never have. Not sure what you are on about here.

(The Tea Party is fueled by misinformation. In my opinion it has hurt a lot of people who would have otherwise taken advantage of Obamacare, but decided not to because the Tea Party pundits have villianized it as Communist, and Socialism?)
If you care to look into it, many of the warnings from people representing the tea party and conservatives have turned out to be true.
The ACA was passed in the middle of the night without the support of the majority of the american people and was sold with claims we now know to have been lies. I say lies because we know that the claims made were known to be false by those making them to pitch the ACA during debate. (You can keep your doctor, you can keep your insurance , avg family will save $2500 a year, among other false claims.)
Also we were supposed to be able to read the bill before it was passed.
Furthermore , the ACA has done nothing to address the high cost of healthcare. It simply changes how it is paid for and who pays for it and creates a standard for minimal health insurance coverage even though many of the requirements are not needed by many. Who is the gov to decide the kinds of coverage you or I need? Are we not adults capable of making those decisions on our own?

(The real travesty is the Governors of these red states that won't even implement the law?)
The ACA is a federal law and all states comply, some simply choose to have their own marketplaces.

(The Tea party is really Ayn Rand philosophy about how evil government is, and advocates elimination of our social safety nets?)
False, the teaparty is all for giving a hand up , but not a handout.

(Just ask our European friends about high taxes, and you'll realize the taxes in the US are pretty low. Here's an article from the BBC I read the other day that actually illistrates this point.)
Yeah, ask them if they think it is fair. Add up all the taxes you pay , state, federal, gas,sales.(The list is very long)and give me a percentage of your income that goes toward taxes. Do you think 70%, 60% or 50% is enough? 40%? Think of those percentages as a percentage of your life that goes to fund government. Does it really sound fair to you? All of those are too high in my opinion. I like 20% to 25% much better. And those percentages are reasonable if we can get to it and start cutting government waste which I think we can both agree is significant. Everyone knows this.

(The real problem is that if anyone suggests raising taxes on the wealthiest few in our country; the Tea Party propaganda machine fueled with Koch Brothers money ramps up in full force?)
The wealthy in this country pay the vast majority of taxes collected by the government. Millions of people that aren't wealthy pay no federal income tax at all. Here in Alaska some years back taxes were raised on oil companies, we then saw a lot of those companies leave to do business elsewhere. Now that the tax rates have been lowered , we see them coming back and creating jobs.
As far as the Koch bros. What is the problem with someone wanting to contribute to a grassroots political movement with values they identify with? Do you hold the same opinion for George Soros?

(The Republicans and their hero Grover Norquist already showed they would be willing to destroy our credit; which is fiscally irresponsible; just to keep the ultra rich from paying more?)
Is this a reference to the sequester and increasing the debt limit? You do remember that democrats refused to compromise in any way on that matter right? For them it seems there is only one way and that is their way.
And lets not forget that the sequester was originally Obama's idea. The gov has been shut down before and the world never ended.
The current administration did everything it could shutting down programs to make it painful for the public, when in the past those same programs were never stopped during a shutdown.

(Keep in mind I support free markets, but we need regulations to make sure everyone is playing fairly, and not harming other peoples rights as well.)
That is part of the teaparty platform.They don't want to eliminate regs, but simply want reform to keep them from becoming over burdensome to business.

I actually had hope that Obama would do as he promised after he won his first election, and I gave him the benefit of the doubt. He made many great claims and promises of what he would do if elected. I was impressed by his pledge to rein in lobbyists and go through the government budget line by line and cut unneeded spending.
But it didn't take very long to realize that his actions were the opposite of his words in those cases, and his promise to fundamentally change the US meant something much different than what most people here thought it would mean.






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Palacios
post Mar 11 2014, 06:54 AM
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Rich I respectfully disagree with many of your repugnant points; so forgive me if this gets long.

"Since you live in an urban area I find it highly unlikely that you were unaware of the definition and how it is most commonly used, and especially since most everyone who has posted in this thread seems to know. So forgive me if I find your claim of not knowing, and your apology as less than sincere."
Even though its called the Urban Dictionary doesn't mean that people who live in an urban area automatically talk in a perverse manner. Just because you or others might use "Tea Bagger" in that context; doesn't mean I do. Even if I did mean it as an innuendo; what the hell does it matter? I apologized. Stop acting like my wife and rehashing old s_it.


"I don't see an opinion in the opening post of this thread , you drew your own conclusion as to that although it is obvious what Cursin's political views are.I don't see his opinion expressed until he was responding to some of your posts."
I guarantee jstcrsn got this from one of his radical right winged Facebook posts. It probably sounded a lot cooler with his right wing buddies; than it does here. I also read right wing posts. This is honestly how I know that the Tea Party mission statement is a bunch of BS. I'm pretty sure I've even read this thread from one of those right wing groups Facebook threads.


"Has anyone said you couldn't?
I certainly never have. Not sure what you are on about here."
Forgive me if you were caught in the crossfire. I was trying to answer both you and jstcrsn. This is a quote from jstcrsn, "neither do I
sorry ,I envaded this thread and I hold any reply (negatively) towards you in the future and maybe you should do the same

truce"
No; if you make a political comment; I'm sorry but I have an opinion and I'll respond. Just the same; if I make a comment; I don't mind a differing opinion.



"If you care to look into it, many of the warnings from people representing the tea party and conservatives have turned out to be true.
The ACA was passed in the middle of the night without the support of the majority of the american people and was sold with claims we now know to have been lies. I say lies because we know that the claims made were known to be false by those making them to pitch the ACA during debate. (You can keep your doctor, you can keep your insurance , avg family will save $2500 a year, among other false claims.)
Also we were supposed to be able to read the bill before it was passed.
Furthermore , the ACA has done nothing to address the high cost of healthcare. It simply changes how it is paid for and who pays for it and creates a standard for minimal health insurance coverage even though many of the requirements are not needed by many. Who is the gov to decide the kinds of coverage you or I need? Are we not adults capable of making those decisions on our own?"
Rich the Republicans created such a toxic environment politically that they couldn't negotiate with the Democrats even if they wanted to. This is the problem with Fox News and the Tea Party. They crucify anybody who dares work with the president on any piece of legislation. The Democrats with no other choice pushed the bill through. Keep in mind the ACA is the same bill the Republicans offered in response to Clinton's Universal coverage. If they were more willing to work with the Democrats we could probably make some meaningful reforms to the bill. As for a minimum amount of coverage; yes that is very important. If you buy a car, there is a minimum federal safety standards. Insurance is no different. The right and FOX News have really exaggerated the claims of people who lost their insurance. People here in California are signing up for it in record numbers. Lives are being saved because people with preexisting conditions are getting medical treatment. More young people are entering in the system with health insurance because of the federal mandate to stay on their parent insurance till their 25. With the exchanges; people can certainly make decisions with their healthcare. In fact now that the insurance is more affordable; people can make even better decision about their healthcare.


"(The real travesty is the Governors of these red states that won't even implement the law?)
The ACA is a federal law and all states comply, some simply choose to have their own marketplaces."
Yes but they aren't all agreeing to Medicaid expansion, and are refusing federal dollars to make a point at the expense of their most vulnerable. Mississippi has the worst health in the US, and they are refusing this to win political points. Here are the states refusing Medicaid expansion. http://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/201.../09/medicaidmap These are all red states with a very minor exception.


"(The Tea party is really Ayn Rand philosophy about how evil government is, and advocates elimination of our social safety nets?)
False, the teaparty is all for giving a hand up , but not a handout.
Just ask our European friends about high taxes, and you'll realize the taxes in the US are pretty low. Here's an article from the BBC I (read the other day that actually illistrates this point.)
Yeah, ask them if they think it is fair. Add up all the taxes you pay , state, federal, gas,sales.(The list is very long)and give me a percentage of your income that goes toward taxes. Do you think 70%, 60% or 50% is enough? 40%? Think of those percentages as a percentage of your life that goes to fund government. Does it really sound fair to you? All of those are too high in my opinion. I like 20% to 25% much better. And those percentages are reasonable if we can get to it and start cutting government waste which I think we can both agree is significant. Everyone knows this."
Not true Rich. If you've ever read any of Ayn Rand's books like "Atlas Shrugged", or "The Fountainhead" you'll know that she has hugely influenced the Tea party, and many right wingers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayn_Rand
http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinio...concern-America
The Tea party is trying to weaken the government; which is the only real power people have to make changes in our country. Not everyone can have equal voting power in a Corporation. Only a few with the most shares, but at least we all have equal voting power in our Democratic process. Taxes are always too high, but we still don't pay anywhere close to the inflated numbers you posted. I'd rather pay a little extra to keep this country from going bankrupt, or laying off teachers, firefighter, police, etc. We're all in this together.


"(The real problem is that if anyone suggests raising taxes on the wealthiest few in our country; the Tea Party propaganda machine fueled with Koch Brothers money ramps up in full force?)
The wealthy in this country pay the vast majority of taxes collected by the government. Millions of people that aren't wealthy pay no federal income tax at all. Here in Alaska some years back taxes were raised on oil companies, we then saw a lot of those companies leave to do business elsewhere. Now that the tax rates have been lowered , we see them coming back and creating jobs.
As far as the Koch bros. What is the problem with someone wanting to contribute to a grassroots political movement with values they identify with? Do you hold the same opinion for George Soros?"
Guess what Rich a lot of those people who pay no taxes are some of the richest corporations. I just read this article from USA Today about this. http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/busine...-taxes/2480281/
I'm sure in true Republican fashion your more concerned with the poor people who pay no taxes. After all when corporations and rich people don't pay taxes Republicans say they're smart; when poor people don't pay them; they're lazy. The rich are rich. That's the reward for being rich. The US has still been growing since we raised the tax rates for people making over $200,000. The rich have it pretty well in America. Our top marginal tax rate is much smaller that other industrialized nations.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/...t-top-tax-rates
The top tax rate in the US has been at historical lows boom or bust.
http://www.businessinsider.com/history-of-tax-rates
The Koch Brothers have used their money to fuel climate change denial, fight environmental laws, and put their hand picked Tea Party candidates is small rural areas where they can gain the biggest influence with their money. In fact even in you home state of Alaska they are using slanderous attack ads to try and outspend incumbent politicians. They are not even in the same category as George Soros who is a philanthropist, and supporter of pro democracy causes.
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2014/03/10/s...-koch-brothers/



"(The Republicans and their hero Grover Norquist already showed they would be willing to destroy our credit; which is fiscally irresponsible; just to keep the ultra rich from paying more?)
Is this a reference to the sequester and increasing the debt limit? You do remember that democrats refused to compromise in any way on that matter right? For them it seems there is only one way and that is their way.
And lets not forget that the sequester was originally Obama's idea. The gov has been shut down before and the world never ended.
The current administration did everything it could shutting down programs to make it painful for the public, when in the past those same programs were never stopped during a shutdown."
The political brinksmanship of the Tea Party has been very reckless. It is no surprise that Republican John Boehner harshly critisized them for their reckless tactics. Fortunately the Republicans are starting to distance themselves from them. Obama was nieve to think he could work with the Republicans and a gang of six would come to a compromise. There is no way you can negotiate with the Tea Party; they've proven that time and time again. Of course they haven't been able to propose any meaningful legislation because of the games they play.



"(Keep in mind I support free markets, but we need regulations to make sure everyone is playing fairly, and not harming other peoples rights as well.)
That is part of the teaparty platform.They don't want to eliminate regs, but simply want reform to keep them from becoming over burdensome to business."
Not true Rich.

They wanna get rid of the EPA



They wanna get rid of the minimum wage.
Of course they wanna get rid of the ACA. The point is that they're not interested in reforming anything; just eliminate. It's part of their Ayn Rand inspired philosophy.

This post has been edited by Palacios: Mar 11 2014, 07:12 AM
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AK Rich
post Mar 11 2014, 09:52 PM
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Wow! Repugnant now eh, you aren't getting mad are you? Read my response again buddy. I never said anything about people living in urban areas automatically talk any way. I simply stated that it was highly unlikely you didn't know about the term given where you lived since most people everywhere seem to know. And as far as rehashing , I didn't rehash anything. I was only responding to your apology that you had given earlier since I hadn't done that until that post, so don't compare my response to any problems you may be having with your wife.

As far as the ACA goes: Most people know it is a train wreck in spite of the propaganda from the left. Like I said , the majority of the country was against it when it was being debated, passed and signed into law without a single republican vote, and the majority are still against it to this day. The minimal coverage includes many things that just aren't needed by many, and millions have lost or will lose their policies ,policies that they liked and were less costly than the policies available at the marketplace. And the supreme court failed the nation by wrongly upholding the law as constitutional because the penalties were a tax, when the left swore up and down that they were not. And so far it looks to be affordable for a few but unaffordable for most. I have said it before and I will say again that it is designed to fail so government can claim to come to the rescue and bring about a single payer system, which is socialism and has no place in this country. Both my brother in law and sister in law are doctors ,another sister in law is a dentist, my neighbor is a doctor , my father is a retired pharmacist with the military and is friends with many doctors,and none of them support the ACA. Not one.
How can people be signing up in record numbers when there is no record to break.Unless you mean that more people have signed up there than other states, last I saw the number of people who have actually selected a policy in cali was less then 500k. Not exactly something to brag about considering the population. And the number of people across the country who have signed up and actually selected and paid for a policy are well bellow where they were expected to be by this time. Folks are definitely not flocking to it.
As far as Medicaid expansion goes there are good reasons for states refusing it. See this article from Forbes.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2013/...caid-expansion/

Edit: this just in today concerning ACA enrollment and how many have paid.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-25...ginal-goal.html

The Teaparty: Who in the heck is Ayn Rand? I have been following the teaparty since it began and I have never even heard of Ayn Rand until you brought her up. I had to look her up. She may have been mentioned here and there but she is by no means the one whose ideals and principles are used to base the platform. Those ideals and principles come from men who lived and died long before Ayn Rand was even born. You may be speaking of other groups that have tried to hijack the movement I guess. I think your opinion here is flawed and tainted by misinformation.

Taxes: The percentages I posted where in the context of a question to you based on ALL taxes, not just fed income taxes. I was simply asking what was enough. And if you add up ALL the taxes it easily reaches those lower percentages I posted.
I would rather cut wasteful spending than pay extra taxes to keep the country from going broke.
And poor people are not the only ones who are not paying taxes,many in the middle class don't either. And I reject your generalization of republicans saying the rich are smart and the poor are lazy for not paying in.Shouldn't everyone pitch in something even if just a little?
If some corporations pay no taxes then both parties are responsible for that, not just republicans. Republicans alone do not write the tax code. And lawmakers on BOTH sides of the aisle are influenced by big business. The claim of republicans alone being in the pocket of big corporations wall street and banking institutions is a myth. This is the fault of government as a whole. Politicians on both sides of the aisle get rich after they come into office by pandering to special interests.

The Koch bros and George Soros: There is good reason to fund AGW denial (You can't use Climate Change to describe mans alleged influence on the climate. Climate Change has been happening since the beginning of time and is natural) Claims have been made in the media of a scientific consensus , the debate is over and the science is settled. Which is 100% false. AGW is a nothing more than a flimsy theory where every dire prediction made in the last 20 or so years has not happened. The climate models can't even accurately show the past much less the future. There are thousands of peer reviewed papers that challenge this theory (You won't hear about that on the evening news) and even if there were a consensus it would mean nothing since many times in the past what most scientists believed has been shown to be wrong by ONE, or a small group of scientists. Most scientists and great thinkers used to believe the earth was flat and the center of the universe. And those who disagreed were vilified or imprisoned. Sound familiar? Many groups that have presented studies that contradict AGW have been barred from the peer review process, and vilified in the public forum.
AGW theory is based on politically correct junk science that ignores the scientific method. Politics should never get in the way of true science.
I remember when we were told the ice age was coming back in the 70's.
And the EPA has been taken over largely by environmental extremists whose beliefs are more akin to religion than facts. They need to be reigned in. The do not represent true conservation which was what it used to be called before environmentalism.
As far as George Soros goes , this sums up pretty well who he really is. He does the same thing you claim the Koch Bros do but on a higher level.

http://www.humanevents.com/2011/04/02/top-...s-is-dangerous/

More Teaparty: The teaparty represents true conservative values , Boehner is on his way out because he does not. as are other RINO's who have abandoned true conservative ideals. And it is the White House and the left that will not budge on any issue , not the teaparty or true conservatives. It has been their way or the highway so to speak since Obama came into office. They have not extended their hand across the aisle at all. So you have it backwards there the way I see it. Obama claims to be open to other views then rejects them outright when they are presented.

And lastly I do not support everything that Michelle Bachmann says and does , And I did not support everything Bush did and said either, because as an independent, I dare to criticize politicians in all parties. Often it looks as if democrats and republicans are a bad version of good cop bad cop, or 2 sides of the same coin, and I am against ever expanding government power no matter who is in charge. Especially when they start to seem to represent themselves(Government) or special interests over we the people. This is why I support teaparty and true conservative values. Government has become too big and overreaching and is infringing on the rights and liberties of the people they are supposed to represent.

So with that I guess I am done with our little banter and agree to disagree. No hard feelings. Peace!

This post has been edited by AK Rich: Mar 12 2014, 03:49 AM


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Gitarrero
post Mar 11 2014, 10:07 PM
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Sorry for interrupting the political masterclass...but the ice cream truck is here!


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AK Rich
post Mar 11 2014, 10:36 PM
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QUOTE (Gitarrero @ Mar 11 2014, 01:07 PM) *
Sorry for interrupting the political masterclass...but the ice cream truck is here!

Cool! Just in time , I could use some ice cream after all that typing. smile.gif That's enough for me, I am growing weary.


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jstcrsn
post Mar 11 2014, 11:08 PM
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QUOTE (Palacios @ Mar 11 2014, 06:54 AM) *
Rich I respectfully disagree with many of your repugnant points; so forgive me if this gets long.




I guarantee jstcrsn got this from one of his radical right winged Facebook posts. It probably sounded a lot cooler with his right wing buddies; than it does here. I also read right wing posts. This is honestly how I know that the Tea Party mission statement is a bunch of BS. I'm pretty sure I've even read this thread from one of those right wing groups Facebook threads.



Forgive me if you were caught in the crossfire. I was trying to answer both you and jstcrsn. This is a quote from jstcrsn, "neither do I
sorry ,I envaded this thread and I hold any reply (negatively) towards you in the future and maybe you should do the same

truce"
No; if you make a political comment; I'm sorry but I have an opinion and I'll respond. Just the same; if I make a comment; I don't mind a differing opinion.


"
Wow
I don't know what to say, I say I will hold any reply negatively in the future, meaning there will be future replies ,lets see if we can do this without all your negativity. Not no reply at all'
Even when you are chatting with someone else you can't help with the slander towards me .That you somehow from 1 copy and paste are capable of knowing all my life, can only be construed as arrogance.
I would ask for an apology , but as many times as you have targeted my character , I know you would only be trying to save face






This post has been edited by jstcrsn: Mar 11 2014, 11:23 PM
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Palacios
post Mar 12 2014, 04:54 AM
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QUOTE (AK Rich @ Mar 11 2014, 01:52 PM) *
Wow! Repugnant now eh, you aren't getting mad are you? Read my response again buddy. I never said anything about people living in urban areas automatically talk any way. I simply stated that it was highly unlikely you didn't know about the term given where you lived since most people everywhere seem to know. And as far as rehashing , I didn't rehash anything. I was only responding to your apology that you had given earlier since I hadn't done that until that post, so don't compare my response to any problems you may be having with your wife.

As far as the ACA goes: Most people know it is a train wreck in spite of the propaganda from the left. Like I said , the majority of the country was against it when it was being debated, passed and signed into law without a single republican vote, and the majority are still against it to this day. The minimal coverage includes many things that just aren't needed by many, and millions have lost or will lose their policies ,policies that they liked and were less costly than the policies available at the marketplace. And the supreme court failed the nation by wrongly upholding the law as constitutional because the penalties were a tax, when the left swore up and down that they were not. And so far it looks to be affordable for a few but unaffordable for most. I have said it before and I will say again that it is designed to fail so government can claim to come to the rescue and bring about a single payer system, which is socialism and has no place in this country. Both my brother in law and sister in law are doctors ,another sister in law is a dentist, my neighbor is a doctor , my father is a retired pharmacist with the military and is friends with many doctors,and none of them support the ACA. Not one.
How can people be signing up in record numbers when there is no record to break.Unless you mean that more people have signed up there than other states, last I saw the number of people who have actually selected a policy in cali was less then 500k. Not exactly something to brag about considering the population. And the number of people across the country who have signed up and actually selected and paid for a policy are well bellow where they were expected to be by this time. Folks are definitely not flocking to it.
As far as Medicaid expansion goes there are good reasons for states refusing it. See this article from Forbes.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2013/...caid-expansion/

The Teaparty: Who in the heck is Ayn Rand? I have been following the teaparty since it began and I have never even heard of Ayn Rand until you brought her up. I had to look her up. She may have been mentioned here and there but she is by no means the one whose ideals and principles are used to base the platform. Those ideals and principles come from men who lived and died long before Ayn Rand was even born. You may be speaking of other groups that have tried to hijack the movement I guess. I think your opinion here is flawed and tainted by misinformation.

Taxes: The percentages I posted where in the context of a question to you based on ALL taxes, not just fed income taxes. I was simply asking what was enough. And if you add up ALL the taxes it easily reaches those lower percentages I posted.
I would rather cut wasteful spending than pay extra taxes to keep the country from going broke.
And poor people are not the only ones who are not paying taxes,many in the middle class don't either. And I reject your generalization of republicans saying the rich are smart and the poor are lazy for not paying in.Shouldn't everyone pitch in something even if just a little?
If some corporations pay no taxes then both parties are responsible for that, not just republicans. Republicans alone do not write the tax code. And lawmakers on BOTH sides of the aisle are influenced by big business. The claim of republicans alone being in the pocket of big corporations wall street and banking institutions is a myth. This is the fault of government as a whole. Politicians on both sides of the aisle get rich after they come into office by pandering to special interests.

The Koch bros and George Soros: There is good reason to fund AGW denial (You can't use Climate Change to describe mans alleged influence on the climate. Climate Change has been happening since the beginning of time and is natural) Claims have been made in the media of a scientific consensus , the debate is over and the science is settled. Which is 100% false. AGW is a nothing more than a flimsy theory where every dire prediction made in the last 20 or so years has not happened. The climate models can't even accurately show the past much less the future. There are thousands of peer reviewed papers that challenge this theory (You won't hear about that on the evening news) and even if there were a consensus it would mean nothing since many times in the past what most scientists believed has been shown to be wrong by ONE, or a small group of scientists. Most scientists and great thinkers used to believe the earth was flat and the center of the universe. And those who disagreed were vilified or imprisoned. Sound familiar? Many groups that have presented studies that contradict AGW have been barred from the peer review process, and vilified in the public forum.
AGW theory is based on politically correct junk science that ignores the scientific method. Politics should never get in the way of true science.
I remember when we were told the ice age was coming back in the 70's.
And the EPA has been taken over largely by environmental extremists whose beliefs are more akin to religion than facts. They need to be reigned in. The do not represent true conservation which was what it used to be called before environmentalism.
As far as George Soros goes , this sums up pretty well who he really is. He does the same thing you claim the Koch Bros do but on a higher level.

http://www.humanevents.com/2011/04/02/top-...s-is-dangerous/

More Teaparty: The teaparty represents true conservative values , Boehner is on his way out because he does not. as are other RINO's who have abandoned true conservative ideals. And it is the White House and the left that will not budge on any issue , not the teaparty or true conservatives. It has been their way or the highway so to speak since Obama came into office. They have not extended their hand across the aisle at all. So you have it backwards there the way I see it. Obama claims to be open to other views then rejects them outright when they are presented.

And lastly I do not support everything that Michelle Bachmann says and does , And I did not support everything Bush did and said either, because as an independent, I dare to criticize politicians in all parties. Often it looks as if democrats and republicans are a bad version of good cop bad cop, or 2 sides of the same coin, and I am against ever expanding government power no matter who is in charge. Especially when they start to seem to represent themselves(Government) or special interests over we the people. This is why I support teaparty and true conservative values. Government has become too big and overreaching and is infringing on the rights and liberties of the people they are supposed to represent.

So with that I guess I am done with our little banter and agree to disagree. No hard feelings. Peace!




I think klasaine was right. Americans love this s_it a little too much. That's ok; it dosen't hurt my feelings at all for someone to disagree with me. Rich I respectfully disagree, but I'll only tackle a few of your points.
"Wow! Repugnant now eh, you aren't getting mad are you? Read my response again buddy. I never said anything about people living in urban areas automatically talk any way. I simply stated that it was highly unlikely you didn't know about the term given where you lived since most people everywhere seem to know. And as far as rehashing , I didn't rehash anything. I was only responding to your apology that you had given earlier since I hadn't done that until that post, so don't compare my response to any problems you may be having with your wife."
Rich lets look at the definition of the word repugnant.
re·pug·nant
riˈpəgnənt/Submit
adjective
1.
extremely distasteful; unacceptable.
"the thought of going back into the fog was repugnant to him"
synonyms: abhorrent, revolting, repulsive, repellent, disgusting, offensive, objectionable, cringeworthy, vile, foul, nasty, loathsome, sickening, nauseating, hateful, detestable, execrable, abominable, monstrous, appalling, insufferable, intolerable, unacceptable, contemptible, unsavory, unpalatable; More
antonyms: attractive, pleasant
2.
in conflict with; incompatible with.
"a bylaw must not be repugnant to the general law of the country"
synonyms: incompatible with, in conflict with, contrary to, at variance with, inconsistent with More
archaicliterary
given to stubborn resistance.
Origin

late Middle English (in the sense ‘offering resistance’): from Old French repugnant or Latin repugnant- ‘opposing,’ from the verb repugnare (see repugnance).
Translate repugnant to
Use over time for: repugnant

My use of the word is definition number two. It has absolutely no emotion attached to it; therefore I'm not mad, or even slightly irritated. I have no problem with someone disagreeing with me. I'm guessing your finally accepting my "tea bagger" apology; because you finally stopped bringing it up after I compared you to my wife when she nags.


"As far as the ACA goes: Most people know it is a train wreck in spite of the propaganda from the left. Like I said , the majority of the country was against it when it was being debated, passed and signed into law without a single republican vote, and the majority are still against it to this day. The minimal coverage includes many things that just aren't needed by many, and millions have lost or will lose their policies ,policies that they liked and were less costly than the policies available at the marketplace. And the supreme court failed the nation by wrongly upholding the law as constitutional because the penalties were a tax, when the left swore up and down that they were not. And so far it looks to be affordable for a few but unaffordable for most. I have said it before and I will say again that it is designed to fail so government can claim to come to the rescue and bring about a single payer system, which is socialism and has no place in this country. Both my brother in law and sister in law are doctors ,another sister in law is a dentist, my neighbor is a doctor , my father is a retired pharmacist with the military and is friends with many doctors,and none of them support the ACA. Not one.
How can people be signing up in record numbers when there is no record to break.Unless you mean that more people have signed up there than other states, last I saw the number of people who have actually selected a policy in cali was less then 500k. Not exactly something to brag about considering the population. And the number of people across the country who have signed up and actually selected and paid for a policy are well bellow where they were expected to be by this time. Folks are definitely not flocking to it.
As far as Medicaid expansion goes there are good reasons for states refusing it. See this article from Forbes.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2013/...caid-expansion/"
Rich did you read the article you posted? It's an opinion piece which Forbes correctly identified as such. This is why it contains no hard facts, and only half truths. The opinion piece stated that people who had Medicaid fared worse than uninsured with Cancer, heart attacks, strokes, and pneumonia. This is why the red states were not expanding Medicaid. It is a weak argument at best. Without making this too long I'll focus on only one point of the argument. Certain types of cancer there was no significant difference. In fact sometimes having private insurance made no signifigant difference than no insurance. The solution isn't eliminate Medicaid.(Remember the Tea Party wants to fix regulations not end them. Right?) Maybe the Tea party should focus on streamlining the process, and cutting the red tape as this article suggested.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3699851/
You are correct that most Americans disapprove of the ACA, but that is because of the Tea Party's fear mongering mouthpiece FAUX News. The numbers of Americans who disapprove are also shrinking. As is the number of uninsured. The drop in poor uninsured has fallen considerably. Much better than the Republican alternative of having the uninsured clog up the ER room, and force hospitals to file bankruptcy.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/167798/uninsure...inues-fall.aspx


"And lastly I do not support everything that Michelle Bachmann says and does , And I did not support everything Bush did and said either, because as an independent, I dare to criticize politicians in all parties. Often it looks as if democrats and republicans are a bad version of good cop bad cop, or 2 sides of the same coin, and I am against ever expanding government power no matter who is in charge. Especially when they start to seem to represent themselves(Government) or special interests over we the people. This is why I support teaparty and true conservative values. Government has become too big and overreaching and is infringing on the rights and liberties of the people they are supposed to represent."
I agree with most of these points, but there is a role for government to play. It is the only real vehicle of change for all Americans who decide to participate in it. The Tea Party knows this; that's why they've become heavily involved in politics. I read Alan Greenspan's Biography a few years ago. He was actually philosophically inline with the Tea Party, and Ayn Rand.(He worshiped her, and was her protégée) After reading it I couldn't help think what a hypocrite. He is against government interference, but he is interfering with the government. This reminds me of the Tea Party. In their attempt to show fiscal responsibility; they send jitters through the financial markets, and slow the recovery by creating political instability. They have become the problem. Of course thats just my opinion.
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klasaine
post Mar 12 2014, 05:53 AM
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QUOTE (Palacios @ Mar 11 2014, 07:54 PM) *
I think klasaine was right. Americans love this s_it a little too much.


You've all probably noticed I'm not gettin' anywhere near this one.


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Gitarrero
post Mar 12 2014, 06:30 AM
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are you kidding me guys? Can't you discuss this pointless stuff in some political forum?
DEATH TO FALSE METAL, FREEDOM FOR S.E.!
there, I made a statement as well.


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Ben Higgins
post Mar 12 2014, 10:12 AM
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QUOTE (Palacios @ Mar 12 2014, 03:54 AM) *
That's ok; it dosen't hurt my feelings at all for someone to disagree with me.


Right on, I agree with this, I'm the same. Why should a different opinion cause such emotional upheaval ?

Obviously there's been a few cheeky digs at each other throughout the thread (just like all of the other politically charged threads way before Palacios even joined) but you guys know what you're getting yourselves into when you start this stuff, right ? I mean, you just wouldn't even feel compelled to begin these threads if you didn't think there was going to be a strong chance of controversy and disagreement, otherwise why would you post ? You won't admit it but subconsciously you're actually hoping for a fight wink.gif

So, with that in mind I really don't think anyone needs to apologise or get offended. You subconsciously agree to the rules of this game when you join in. And you're grown men. You can't act all injured as we won't take pity on you ! smile.gif

You also submit to the strong chance that there will be random posts about food by certain GMCers ! ph34r.gif

Now just LOOK at these sausages !! Mmmmmmmmmmm

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Todd Simpson
post Mar 12 2014, 10:42 AM
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NICE!!! Leave it to our resident German to settle all disputes!!! Well done wink.gif


QUOTE (Gitarrero @ Mar 8 2014, 02:54 PM) *
some eastern european true metal guy got banned for less.
anyways, would you kindly go back to the republican and democrat headquarters? you are distracting the Hasselhoff-beliebers .



Now that is some fine food pron!!! smile.gif Well posted.

I too have stayed clear of this one. smile.gif I"ve had my fun in the past an poking the bears seems to lose it's appeal after the first few pokes. sad.gif Sadly, it's doubtful that the "twain shall meet" as it were. Still it's all in good fun smile.gif Hopefully, we can relegate this POLI SPEAK to some political forum (Goodness know there are plenty) and get back to guitar smile.gif

Not to say any posts are unwelcome, this is an open place wink.gif Just that, as with anything, it's good to take all things in their measure.

BTW....


PRACTICE!!!!!!!




QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Mar 12 2014, 05:12 AM) *
Right on, I agree with this, I'm the same. Why should a different opinion cause such emotional upheaval ?

Obviously there's been a few cheeky digs at each other throughout the thread (just like all of the other politically charged threads way before Palacios even joined) but you guys know what you're getting yourselves into when you start this stuff, right ? I mean, you just wouldn't even feel compelled to begin these threads if you didn't think there was going to be a strong chance of controversy and disagreement, otherwise why would you post ? You won't admit it but subconsciously you're actually hoping for a fight wink.gif

So, with that in mind I really don't think anyone needs to apologise or get offended. You subconsciously agree to the rules of this game when you join in. And you're grown men. You can't act all injured as we won't take pity on you ! smile.gif

You also submit to the strong chance that there will be random posts about food by certain GMCers ! ph34r.gif

Now just LOOK at these sausages !! Mmmmmmmmmmm

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jstcrsn
post Mar 12 2014, 12:19 PM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Mar 12 2014, 10:12 AM) *
Right on, I agree with this, I'm the same. Why should a different opinion cause such emotional upheaval ?

Obviously there's been a few cheeky digs at each other throughout the thread (just like all of the other politically charged threads way before Palacios even joined) but you guys know what you're getting yourselves into when you start this stuff, right ? I mean, you just wouldn't even feel compelled to begin these threads if you didn't think there was going to be a strong chance of controversy and disagreement, otherwise why would you post ? You won't admit it but subconsciously you're actually hoping for a fight wink.gif

So, with that in mind I really don't think anyone needs to apologise or get offended. You subconsciously agree to the rules of this game when you join in. And you're grown men. You can't act all injured as we won't take pity on you ! smile.gif

You also submit to the strong chance that there will be random posts about food by certain GMCers ! ph34r.gif

Now just LOOK at these sausages !! Mmmmmmmmmmm

Attached Image
it does not cause emotional upheaval , I am a big boy and can take care of myself , this is why In Palacios thread about hobbies I answered and knew he would see the typical conservative in it.But for the sake of these open discussions and letting them remain, I was trying to get them to not have negative name calling , Because If I was Kris , I would not want new potential costumers to this site reading this name calling and eventually not wanting to become apart of It.

but the pic about the sausages is to far and shall be reported, now if it was donuts I might have been a different song

This post has been edited by jstcrsn: Mar 12 2014, 12:30 PM
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Ben Higgins
post Mar 12 2014, 12:29 PM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ Mar 12 2014, 11:19 AM) *
but the pic about the sausages is to far and shall be reported


laugh.gif



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bleez
post Mar 12 2014, 12:41 PM
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DEATH TO FALSE SAUSAGES!!!
FREEDOM FOR S.E.!


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post Mar 12 2014, 12:57 PM
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Death to Political debates on GMC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! huh.gif

QUOTE (bleez @ Mar 12 2014, 12:41 PM) *
DEATH TO FALSE SAUSAGES!!!
FREEDOM FOR S.E.!


Deaths to veggie sausages!!!! laugh.gif


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