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> How Do You Start A Composition?
Gabriel Leopardi
post Mar 14 2014, 04:20 PM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Mar 14 2014, 08:13 AM) *
I need to start doing something like that. Sorting my stuff and actually keeping it instead of just throwing everything out I don't use or don't like at present.




This is fundamental mate! It's like building our own archive. Things are not clear all the time in our minds, we have to record them or write them and sometimes even recorded have no sense. But if you have them organized in a folder, you can get back and see if your current feeling gives you ideas to continue it, or even sometimes happens that a new idea connects with and older one and everything make sense. You can use half of an old idea with half of the new one, you can use an old intro for a new verse, an old riff for a new chorus. This can becomes very enjoyable if you let your mind and feelings flow without thinking all the time "this is not enough good".

Many times, my initial ideas are poor and seem to be bad, but I record them, re work them, record more ideas over it and finally I have something that I like a lot, and most of the times I end deleting the original idea.

I shared a graphic about "how to be productive" in another thread. I will share here two phrases that consider are directly connected to what I'm trying to say:

- Do a bad first draft, you can't edit a blank page.
- Start "Idea Dump", book for genius ideas that you can't work on now.


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Caelumamittendum
post Mar 14 2014, 04:42 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Mar 14 2014, 04:20 PM) *
This is fundamental mate! It's like building our own archive. Things are not clear all the time in our minds, we have to record them or write them and sometimes even recorded have no sense. But if you have them organized in a folder, you can get back and see if your current feeling gives you ideas to continue it, or even sometimes happens that a new idea connects with and older one and everything make sense. You can use half of an old idea with half of the new one, you can use an old intro for a new verse, an old riff for a new chorus. This can becomes very enjoyable if you let your mind and feelings flow without thinking all the time "this is not enough good".

Many times, my initial ideas are poor and seem to be bad, but I record them, re work them, record more ideas over it and finally I have something that I like a lot, and most of the times I end deleting the original idea.

I shared a graphic about "how to be productive" in another thread. I will share here two phrases that consider are directly connected to what I'm trying to say:

- Do a bad first draft, you can't edit a blank page.
- Start "Idea Dump", book for genius ideas that you can't work on now.



I've reinstalled everything on my laptop and I'm about to install my VSTs and Cubase, then I'll bring it to my practice room in the attic and try and record something in peace up there, make a folder and save everything. I've just discarded every idea I've had in the past 6 years and not really saved any of them.


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MonkeyDAthos
post Mar 14 2014, 05:00 PM
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For me isn't How to start but How to End.

There are does random days where i pick guitar pro and start to write lots of stuff, but like always i get kinda stuck, or unhappy with how its going. So i end up with a large amount of unfinish stuff in a folder tongue.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Mar 15 2014, 11:07 AM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Mar 14 2014, 11:13 AM) *
I need to start doing something like that. Sorting my stuff and actually keeping it instead of just throwing everything out I don't use or don't like at present.


Nothing should go to waste man smile.gif I keep my stuff pretty well arranged and organized, so that when the time comes, I am able to find everything quickly and use it at will wink.gif

Try creating folders with the following arborescent fashion:

Landmark (For instance GMC Projects) -> year -> month -> project name


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Mar 15 2014, 03:12 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Mar 15 2014, 07:07 AM) *
Nothing should go to waste man smile.gif I keep my stuff pretty well arranged and organized, so that when the time comes, I am able to find everything quickly and use it at will wink.gif

Try creating folders with the following arborescent fashion:

Landmark (For instance GMC Projects) -> year -> month -> project name



Besides this, I like to add a word that makes me remember the idea. For example, the last song that we recorded with Cirse, was identified like "Fury" in my archive. This can make the search easier when you get back to the archive.


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Cosmin Lupu
post Mar 16 2014, 10:40 AM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Mar 15 2014, 02:12 PM) *
Besides this, I like to add a word that makes me remember the idea. For example, the last song that we recorded with Cirse, was identified like "Fury" in my archive. This can make the search easier when you get back to the archive.


You have no clue what silly names we use for identifying songs biggrin.gif Foovelle for instance, comes from Foo Fighters and Chevelle, because there are elements in that idea that remind us of those bands laugh.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Mar 16 2014, 05:14 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Mar 16 2014, 06:40 AM) *
You have no clue what silly names we use for identifying songs biggrin.gif Foovelle for instance, comes from Foo Fighters and Chevelle, because there are elements in that idea that remind us of those bands laugh.gif


hahaha one of the songs from "Rompiente" was called "Jimmy Fighters" which comes from Jimmy Eat World and Foo Fighters. laugh.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Mar 17 2014, 08:36 AM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Mar 16 2014, 04:14 PM) *
hahaha one of the songs from "Rompiente" was called "Jimmy Fighters" which comes from Jimmy Eat World and Foo Fighters. laugh.gif


laugh.gif laugh.gif I can SO relate to that biggrin.gif It's exactly the sort of thing we are doing!


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Mar 17 2014, 12:00 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Mar 17 2014, 04:36 AM) *
laugh.gif laugh.gif I can SO relate to that biggrin.gif It's exactly the sort of thing we are doing!



and I have a new one that is called "little monkeys" (in Spanish "monitos") because of Artic Monkeys. laugh.gif


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Britishampfan
post Mar 18 2014, 05:04 AM
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I have always written collaboratively in a band, it`s always a compromise.

Most of my own stuff just starts out of my head, even if I write for other people.


So I have 1st draft with lots of feeling, cool riffs and maybe parts of a song structure.

I try to record any time I pick up a guitar get it all on tape, I don`t worry about timing or mistakes.

As humans we don`t practice conversations they just flow and its fun and enjoyable.

So I get the music on tape, and refine it down from there.

Recording improved my guitar tone into what I wanted for any given project.


The studio is a pipe dream, it`s an illusion where perfection can exist after 400 takes and editing but I`ve never seen one perfect flawless live performance yet by anybody.


I like posting live demos and 1st drafts with all the clams but it`s not the final product. Playing live I just play my best and as long as nothing is glaring people don`t notice the mistakes.


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Cosmin Lupu
post Mar 18 2014, 09:02 AM
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QUOTE (Britishampfan @ Mar 18 2014, 04:04 AM) *
I have always written collaboratively in a band, it`s always a compromise.

Most of my own stuff just starts out of my head, even if I write for other people.


So I have 1st draft with lots of feeling, cool riffs and maybe parts of a song structure.

I try to record any time I pick up a guitar get it all on tape, I don`t worry about timing or mistakes.

As humans we don`t practice conversations they just flow and its fun and enjoyable.

So I get the music on tape, and refine it down from there.

Recording improved my guitar tone into what I wanted for any given project.


The studio is a pipe dream, it`s an illusion where perfection can exist after 400 takes and editing but I`ve never seen one perfect flawless live performance yet by anybody.


I like posting live demos and 1st drafts with all the clams but it`s not the final product. Playing live I just play my best and as long as nothing is glaring people don`t notice the mistakes.


Sounds like you are a very organic musician, which is a great thing nowadays, when everyone tries to tweak their sound and playing as much as possible, in the studio. Indeed, you can always see what's what with every band as long as you can also hear them in a live context wink.gif

About writing, collaborative writing is always the best proof of compositional synergy between people, but sometimes, people are too lazy to co-write and they are just happy to perform what one or two people are writing and orchestrating smile.gif


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Jeroen
post Mar 18 2014, 04:39 PM
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I started composing in a different way. What I did was the following. I listened to specific songs of my favourite heavy metal bands and tried if I could come up with similar structures and lead lines as an experiment. Now I know these songs might not stand out in quality, technical level, timing and accuracy but it was sure a lot of fun to do.

What you think of these 2 compositions and can you guys guess which bands are my main influence for these songs?

Song 1 - The ballad (with heavy metal second part)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNU1miJum48&

Song 2 - The Dragonslayer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpO9XtOB3Y0

biggrin.gif Jeroen


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Mar 19 2014, 02:35 AM
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QUOTE (Britishampfan @ Mar 18 2014, 01:04 AM) *
I have always written collaboratively in a band, it`s always a compromise.

Most of my own stuff just starts out of my head, even if I write for other people.


So I have 1st draft with lots of feeling, cool riffs and maybe parts of a song structure.

I try to record any time I pick up a guitar get it all on tape, I don`t worry about timing or mistakes.

As humans we don`t practice conversations they just flow and its fun and enjoyable.

So I get the music on tape, and refine it down from there.

Recording improved my guitar tone into what I wanted for any given project.


The studio is a pipe dream, it`s an illusion where perfection can exist after 400 takes and editing but I`ve never seen one perfect flawless live performance yet by anybody.


I like posting live demos and 1st drafts with all the clams but it`s not the final product. Playing live I just play my best and as long as nothing is glaring people don`t notice the mistakes.



This is a very inspiring post. I like when you compare interacting with musicians and creating music with "talking". That's how I see it. It's a deep conversation, even deeper than most of our talked dialogues. If we achieve to interact in life like most of us do in music we could discover a new level in life.

The second important concept in your post is the "organic" side in music. Computers can make us go to the other side but I prefer the feeling and life that you get when you focus on live recordings, all band together, first takes, improvisations... that's why I love 70's music, bands like Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple. If we look back, their live albums where as popular (and sometimes more) than studio albums. Nowadays, when I get a live album I feel like getting a studio album with audience audio.


QUOTE (Jeroen @ Mar 18 2014, 12:39 PM) *
I started composing in a different way. What I did was the following. I listened to specific songs of my favourite heavy metal bands and tried if I could come up with similar structures and lead lines as an experiment. Now I know these songs might not stand out in quality, technical level, timing and accuracy but it was sure a lot of fun to do.

What you think of these 2 compositions and can you guys guess which bands are my main influence for these songs?

Song 1 - The ballad (with heavy metal second part)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNU1miJum48&

Song 2 - The Dragonslayer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpO9XtOB3Y0

biggrin.gif Jeroen



Hi Jeroen! Your compositions sound killer! You got a very good quality in both tracks. You know, this method is one of my ways to learn students how to compose and I also use it when I compose "in the style of lessons".

Check out the Thrash Metal Course that I gave via Vchat:

http://tinyurl.com/lxlnb84

This post has been edited by Gabriel Leopardi: Mar 19 2014, 02:13 AM


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waynedcoville
post Mar 19 2014, 02:51 AM
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there's this thing that Cosmin Does that I do all the time, but he's so much better at actually using it and making it into music. with his mouth he goes: ba dadadada ba duhduhduh grgr, ba dadadada ba duhduhduh grg, deedle do deedle do deedle do deedle do, dun dun dun dun dun duj! and then plays it on his guitar. Im sure he has a word for it. well anyway, I've been practicing with that. lol I just read what I wrote and it looks ridiculous, but hey...

This post has been edited by waynedcoville: Mar 19 2014, 02:51 AM


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Cosmin Lupu
post Mar 19 2014, 10:05 AM
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QUOTE (waynedcoville @ Mar 19 2014, 01:51 AM) *
there's this thing that Cosmin Does that I do all the time, but he's so much better at actually using it and making it into music. with his mouth he goes: ba dadadada ba duhduhduh grgr, ba dadadada ba duhduhduh grg, deedle do deedle do deedle do deedle do, dun dun dun dun dun duj! and then plays it on his guitar. Im sure he has a word for it. well anyway, I've been practicing with that. lol I just read what I wrote and it looks ridiculous, but hey...


Hehe! It's only practicing man! I am not so good yet - when I'll be able to instantly reproduce anything with the guitar once I sing it, on the spot, that should be the right level biggrin.gif Sing and play everything you practice and you will slowly get there smile.gif But be aware to create a connection between the sound, note name and spot on the guitar. In time, this connection will grow stronger!


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Britishampfan
post Mar 19 2014, 12:08 PM
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I think it`s really important to just play, I think as guitar players we are always hung up on the details and many worry too much about what others think.

I know it`s important to do my own thing and not care about what other people think.

If I want to surprise the audience, I have to surprise myself and that is always risky. I take chances especially live.

This post has been edited by Britishampfan: Mar 19 2014, 12:09 PM


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Mar 19 2014, 01:56 PM
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QUOTE (Britishampfan @ Mar 19 2014, 08:08 AM) *
I think it`s really important to just play, I think as guitar players we are always hung up on the details and many worry too much about what others think.

I know it`s important to do my own thing and not care about what other people think.

If I want to surprise the audience, I have to surprise myself and that is always risky. I take chances especially live.



Hi mate! Thanks for your input. I agree with what you say. That's the way to get find your own voice, your own personality as musician. And as the great Dave Grohl says: Who can say that it's wrong?

“There is no right or wrong,” Mr. Grohl said, speaking to more than 1,000 people at the Austin Convention Center. “There is only your voice, your voice screaming through an old recording console, singing from a laptop, echoing from a street corner, a cello, a turntable, a guitar.”

“It doesn’t matter,” he went on. “What matters most is that it’s your voice. Cherish it. Respect it. Nurture it. Challenge it. Stretch it. Scream it until its gone. Because everyone’s blessed with at least that. And who knows how long it will last.”


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Darius Wave
post Mar 19 2014, 03:12 PM
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Ben and Cosmin - it's probably sort of a curse. How many times did I wonder how cool it was after complete rearrangement of simple chords progression and it gave awesome results...even better when my basic attitude is to create something more twisted. I had and idea that even if trying to make advanced guitar stuff, I will start from making sure my composition is musical and has proper tension build + dynamics. I'll try to start my next one with and acoustic guitar recording backing + melody. Then I'll start to tweak it to the next level.


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Cosmin Lupu
post Mar 20 2014, 09:42 AM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Mar 19 2014, 02:12 PM) *
I had and idea that even if trying to make advanced guitar stuff, I will start from making sure my composition is musical and has proper tension build + dynamics.



Hehe! Darius, I believe that should be our first aim, all the time smile.gif It's easy to get lost, especially when you know a lot smile.gif I have friends in other bands who know just a few chords and they only use those to come up with a ton of nice songs. I guess that it's true when they say that when you have limitations, your creativity is stimulated to a far greater extent.

Gabi, we both know, as everyone else should, that whatever Mr. Grohl says should be written in everlasting fire in a Musician's Bible biggrin.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Mar 20 2014, 02:42 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Mar 20 2014, 05:42 AM) *
Hehe! Darius, I believe that should be our first aim, all the time smile.gif It's easy to get lost, especially when you know a lot smile.gif I have friends in other bands who know just a few chords and they only use those to come up with a ton of nice songs. I guess that it's true when they say that when you have limitations, your creativity is stimulated to a far greater extent.

Gabi, we both know, as everyone else should, that whatever Mr. Grohl says should be written in everlasting fire in a Musician's Bible biggrin.gif



yeah, Grohl's words must be there for sure. Everything he says is pure inspiration.


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