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> How Do You Start A Composition?
Darius Wave
post Mar 20 2014, 05:06 PM
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The truth is not many people understand music that is beyond the limit of what could be called "regular". People like simplicity, melodies "they heard somewhere" and sometimes (in case of guitar) the wind on the neck (it doesn't even have to be precise tongue.gif - how many people will catch You making mistakes? only the small group of pros I suspect) so it's always a hard way when you know too much tongue.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Mar 21 2014, 08:44 AM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Mar 20 2014, 04:06 PM) *
The truth is not many people understand music that is beyond the limit of what could be called "regular". People like simplicity, melodies "they heard somewhere" and sometimes (in case of guitar) the wind on the neck (it doesn't even have to be precise tongue.gif - how many people will catch You making mistakes? only the small group of pros I suspect) so it's always a hard way when you know too much tongue.gif


Man, you should read that book - The Zen Guitar smile.gif You're gonna like it biggrin.gif You know, I am slowly becoming one of those guys who like apparently simple things, but having a lot of power in them! For instance, I simply can't listen to Dream Theater's new music anymore, because it's just sports and no music smile.gif But I could listen to Bach all day long - complex yet so beautiful biggrin.gif


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Darius Wave
post Mar 21 2014, 12:24 PM
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Man...Man I wish I had some time to read any book biggrin.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Mar 21 2014, 07:13 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Mar 21 2014, 04:44 AM) *
Man, you should read that book - The Zen Guitar smile.gif You're gonna like it biggrin.gif You know, I am slowly becoming one of those guys who like apparently simple things, but having a lot of power in them! For instance, I simply can't listen to Dream Theater's new music anymore, because it's just sports and no music smile.gif But I could listen to Bach all day long - complex yet so beautiful biggrin.gif



That's a very nice book. I've read it in the past. I understand what you mean. If you listen to Cirse, you will surely see that I took the same way than you. I do "sports" for practice at home and make music with my band. biggrin.gif


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Mertay
post Mar 21 2014, 08:28 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Mar 21 2014, 07:44 AM) *
Man, you should read that book - The Zen Guitar smile.gif You're gonna like it biggrin.gif You know, I am slowly becoming one of those guys who like apparently simple things, but having a lot of power in them! For instance, I simply can't listen to Dream Theater's new music anymore, because it's just sports and no music smile.gif But I could listen to Bach all day long - complex yet so beautiful biggrin.gif


I feel the same, also you're into Japanese sword fight(Kendo? tongue.gif) right? sorry for my ignorance smile.gif

A good friend of mine who is a classical guitar teacher in a college read "zen of arrow shooting" (don't know the original name sorry), and his teacher practiced kung-fu smile.gif

Besides taking 5 lessons of kung-fu I never actually got into the zen idea but I think I'm starting to get it, its like taking control over the supercomputer inside your head and adapting it to the body I guess? at least thats what I feel smile.gif

About topic; I never look at my previous compositions, whenever I listen them my head starts to function like the time it was being written smile.gif It simply won't let the earned vision adapt into it, probably a musical memory thing kicking in that isn't useful to me at all smile.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Mar 22 2014, 03:22 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ Mar 21 2014, 07:28 PM) *
I feel the same, also you're into Japanese sword fight(Kendo? tongue.gif) right? sorry for my ignorance smile.gif

A good friend of mine who is a classical guitar teacher in a college read "zen of arrow shooting" (don't know the original name sorry), and his teacher practiced kung-fu smile.gif

Besides taking 5 lessons of kung-fu I never actually got into the zen idea but I think I'm starting to get it, its like taking control over the supercomputer inside your head and adapting it to the body I guess? at least thats what I feel smile.gif

About topic; I never look at my previous compositions, whenever I listen them my head starts to function like the time it was being written smile.gif It simply won't let the earned vision adapt into it, probably a musical memory thing kicking in that isn't useful to me at all smile.gif


Hehe! You are not far tongue.gif What I practice is not kendo, but kenjutsu - which is the actual sword technique from which the kendo was born. Kendo is a modern style transformed into a sport, while kenjutsu is considered as classical, real sword fighting.

Your teacher practices kyudo smile.gif And you should definitely try understanding and practicing a zen guided living style. It will definitely improve everything in your life, including the guitar playing. You will most probably understand more about yourself and learn how to make peace with what you written, in respect to what you said above wink.gif


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Darius Wave
post Mar 24 2014, 10:43 AM
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I usually try to balance things for particular music project. I usually don't use much of "racing" on the records for any of my bands but sometimes I'm aked to "show off" by a band wink.gif But of course music is the purpose. It's good to be able to "race" because it makes Your regular band playing piece of cake even when You're tired or...drunk a bit ....


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Cosmin Lupu
post Mar 25 2014, 08:05 AM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Mar 24 2014, 09:43 AM) *
I usually try to balance things for particular music project. I usually don't use much of "racing" on the records for any of my bands but sometimes I'm aked to "show off" by a band wink.gif But of course music is the purpose. It's good to be able to "race" because it makes Your regular band playing piece of cake even when You're tired or...drunk a bit ....


Mate, you are right, it's great to be able to but it's not at all great to be led by it biggrin.gif Unfortunately, I know more people who are led by fast playing rather than be able to do it and just throw it in occasionally, when the context asks for it and I am sure you know a lot of them too biggrin.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Mar 25 2014, 01:28 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Mar 25 2014, 04:05 AM) *
Mate, you are right, it's great to be able to but it's not at all great to be led by it biggrin.gif Unfortunately, I know more people who are led by fast playing rather than be able to do it and just throw it in occasionally, when the context asks for it and I am sure you know a lot of them too biggrin.gif



yeah, but always remember Malmsteen's quote: More is more. tongue.gif laugh.gif


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Britishampfan
post Apr 18 2014, 07:05 AM
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Great posts guys!

I grew up in era of metal, yes I am middle aged now. I remember if you could`nt finger tap like eddie or know at least 3 maiden songs and some slayer nobody would take you seriously as a guitarist. I was 16.

I had to listen to albums over and over to get the sound right, now I just look at the tab online, correct it as it`s usually wrong and I can learn many songs note for note in a day.

I dunno I kinda have been out of shred for awhile, but over the last day I played for 6 hours yesterday and 5 today and came up with my own interpretation of a Bminor blues zep number since I`ve been loving you.

I tried to capture Page and some modern Bonnamassa blues riffs, added in some Malmsteen infused with my own style with it. I went for a tasteful passionate shred based on a great song.

My wife hates metal, but since I`ve been playing in a blues rock band she loves it, even goes to gigs. So I had her in my recording studio got everything set up and performed my semi original new effort, and yes it was fast very complicated and I was burning up the fret board.

She fell asleep. She wakes says um yeah you rock, now play me something nice.


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Cosmin Lupu
post Apr 18 2014, 10:47 AM
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Now, each of us is touched by something else smile.gif In some situations, we can deliver what the listener wants in others we can't. If your wife supports you with your music, she very much deserves some blues rock to soothe her ears from time to time wink.gif I think that if one cherishes something you play and if that person is dear to you, you should take the time to give them a little treat periodically on the music they like to hear from you smile.gif


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Britishampfan
post Apr 18 2014, 08:22 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Apr 18 2014, 09:47 AM) *
Now, each of us is touched by something else smile.gif In some situations, we can deliver what the listener wants in others we can't. If your wife supports you with your music, she very much deserves some blues rock to soothe her ears from time to time wink.gif I think that if one cherishes something you play and if that person is dear to you, you should take the time to give them a little treat periodically on the music they like to hear from you smile.gif



But but but she was supposed to be floored by my lead guitar playing. sad.gif smile.gif

Thats why metal is such a sausage fest I guess, the girls want a good song. blink.gif

This post has been edited by Britishampfan: Apr 18 2014, 08:23 PM


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Apr 19 2014, 03:11 AM
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QUOTE (Britishampfan @ Apr 18 2014, 04:22 PM) *
But but but she was supposed to be floored by my lead guitar playing. sad.gif smile.gif

Thats why metal is such a sausage fest I guess, the girls want a good song. blink.gif



hahaha exactly, and I could say that most of the people (not only girls) prefers a good song than a virtuoso guitarist. Let's suppose this two situations:

1. The band has very bad songs, no sense of structure, not interesting parts, nothing catchy, but the guitarist plays like Van Halen.

2. The band has fantastic songs, very well arranged and ejected but the guitarist just plays chords and some melodies.


Which situation would you preffer? (we should start a poll laugh.gif )

This post has been edited by Gabriel Leopardi: Apr 19 2014, 03:12 AM


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Amir Razmara
post Apr 19 2014, 03:12 AM
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Are you composing? or decomposing? biggrin.gif that is the question an old theory professor asked me when I was studying Music in college in late 90's.
The question of this thread is: "what's the most used way you start a composition". After reading all the replays here this is what I get.
- Concept/Idea: naked in the rain
- Imagination: dum dum dum....that nice song you hear in your head
- Stimulation: which can be a drill making it's way through your wall
- Collaboration: lot of sweaty guys in one room
- Imitation/modeling: stealing a bands entire catalog
- improvisation : what is that? biggrin.gif
I'm trying to inject some humor in to this. yes it would be nice to get some practical tips on how to compose because I think the deeper question here is "how to become an effective composer". why is it that some musicians out there can't compose, at least nothing that can go that far, while others can churn up symphonies and albums one after the other? it's good to think about it. Do you have the knowledge and discipline that is needed to compose?
The knowledge of a Painter is rooted on anatomy and perspective. Architects draw their plans according to the maxims of geometry and proportion, musicians should base their practices on principles discovered by reason. Composition is defined as "the act of combining parts or elements to form a whole". what are the elements relevant to music? Rhythm, melody, harmony, lyrics, all of which have various elements obviously, but any one of these elements can be used to start a composition. For example how many songs do you know that start with just rhythm? few words on discipline.
Imagine this scenario: Sam worked out at the gym regularly for few years and worked his way up so he could lift 130 pounds. For some reason he stopped going to the gym for 8 months until yesterday. He goes in figures he could barely lift 90 pounds let alone 130. obviously he has to work his way up again slowly if he wants to avoid injuries. My point is composition is also a discipline. It is something you got to do regularly over time in small chunks to get better at it. I would like to see you guys elaborate more on this thread. wink.gif

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Gabriel Leopardi
post Apr 19 2014, 04:16 AM
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QUOTE (Amir Razmara @ Apr 18 2014, 11:12 PM) *
Are you composing? or decomposing? biggrin.gif that is the question an old theory professor asked me when I was studying Music in college in late 90's.
The question of this thread is: "what's the most used way you start a composition". After reading all the replays here this is what I get.
- Concept/Idea: naked in the rain
- Imagination: dum dum dum....that nice song you hear in your head
- Stimulation: which can be a drill making it's way through your wall
- Collaboration: lot of sweaty guys in one room
- Imitation/modeling: stealing a bands entire catalog
- improvisation : what is that? biggrin.gif
I'm trying to inject some humor in to this. yes it would be nice to get some practical tips on how to compose because I think the deeper question here is "how to become an effective composer". why is it that some musicians out there can't compose, at least nothing that can go that far, while others can churn up symphonies and albums one after the other? it's good to think about it. Do you have the knowledge and discipline that is needed to compose?
The knowledge of a Painter is rooted on anatomy and perspective. Architects draw their plans according to the maxims of geometry and proportion, musicians should base their practices on principles discovered by reason. Composition is defined as "the act of combining parts or elements to form a whole". what are the elements relevant to music? Rhythm, melody, harmony, lyrics, all of which have various elements obviously, but any one of these elements can be used to start a composition. For example how many songs do you know that start with just rhythm? few words on discipline.
Imagine this scenario: Sam worked out at the gym regularly for few years and worked his way up so he could lift 130 pounds. For some reason he stopped going to the gym for 8 months until yesterday. He goes in figures he could barely lift 90 pounds let alone 130. obviously he has to work his way up again slowly if he wants to avoid injuries. My point is composition is also a discipline. It is something you got to do regularly over time in small chunks to get better at it. I would like to see you guys elaborate more on this thread. wink.gif



Good post Amir! You are right, composition is something that can be trained, and the more you compose, the easier it becomes. Gab's Army is each day more oriented to composition and creativity and we are starting to have great results that confirm that practice, discipline and decision are fundamental things in this topic.


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Cosmin Lupu
post Apr 19 2014, 04:05 PM
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QUOTE (Amir Razmara @ Apr 19 2014, 02:12 AM) *
Are you composing? or decomposing? biggrin.gif that is the question an old theory professor asked me when I was studying Music in college in late 90's.
The question of this thread is: "what's the most used way you start a composition". After reading all the replays here this is what I get.
- Concept/Idea: naked in the rain
- Imagination: dum dum dum....that nice song you hear in your head
- Stimulation: which can be a drill making it's way through your wall
- Collaboration: lot of sweaty guys in one room
- Imitation/modeling: stealing a bands entire catalog
- improvisation : what is that? biggrin.gif
I'm trying to inject some humor in to this. yes it would be nice to get some practical tips on how to compose because I think the deeper question here is "how to become an effective composer". why is it that some musicians out there can't compose, at least nothing that can go that far, while others can churn up symphonies and albums one after the other? it's good to think about it. Do you have the knowledge and discipline that is needed to compose?
The knowledge of a Painter is rooted on anatomy and perspective. Architects draw their plans according to the maxims of geometry and proportion, musicians should base their practices on principles discovered by reason. Composition is defined as "the act of combining parts or elements to form a whole". what are the elements relevant to music? Rhythm, melody, harmony, lyrics, all of which have various elements obviously, but any one of these elements can be used to start a composition. For example how many songs do you know that start with just rhythm? few words on discipline.
Imagine this scenario: Sam worked out at the gym regularly for few years and worked his way up so he could lift 130 pounds. For some reason he stopped going to the gym for 8 months until yesterday. He goes in figures he could barely lift 90 pounds let alone 130. obviously he has to work his way up again slowly if he wants to avoid injuries. My point is composition is also a discipline. It is something you got to do regularly over time in small chunks to get better at it. I would like to see you guys elaborate more on this thread. wink.gif


Great post Amir!

I mentioned this a few times before, but I had thought that I would never write ONE entire song all my life smile.gif At some point, a very good friend and future band mate at that time, started teaching me how to use a DAW and record guitars, write virtual instruments and so on... my world changed forever. I could lay down what I heard in my head and from that point on, I started writing - small pieces, long pieces, simple or complicated pieces. I often imitated concepts I heard in songs I liked and I started understanding structures, how to link parts, how to write drum lines that serve a riff or how to build a riff based on a given drum line.

There is much to talk about and elaborate on the matter, but this is how it went for me smile.gif


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Amir Razmara
post Apr 20 2014, 05:38 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Apr 19 2014, 03:05 PM) *
Great post Amir!

I mentioned this a few times before, but I had thought that I would never write ONE entire song all my life smile.gif At some point, a very good friend and future band mate at that time, started teaching me how to use a DAW and record guitars, write virtual instruments and so on... my world changed forever. I could lay down what I heard in my head and from that point on, I started writing - small pieces, long pieces, simple or complicated pieces. I often imitated concepts I heard in songs I liked and I started understanding structures, how to link parts, how to write drum lines that serve a riff or how to build a riff based on a given drum line.

There is much to talk about and elaborate on the matter, but this is how it went for me smile.gif


Hi Cosmin

I agree with you. Having access to means to production is imperative for those who reach a respectable level of skill and musicianship.
In a way it is similar to getting your drivers license. before you get it you can't go anywhere, but when you do you have this great freedom.
As far as Imitating and modeling I thing it is a natural thing to do because in my opinion humans are learning creatures. If you trace it back to human evolution you find that we learn how to speak our language by imitating those around us in the early part of our development.. but learning and imitating is always there as we go through different stages of human growth because we're always effected by what we see and hear around us.
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Cosmin Lupu
post Apr 21 2014, 08:43 AM
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QUOTE (Amir Razmara @ Apr 20 2014, 04:38 PM) *
Hi Cosmin

I agree with you. Having access to means to production is imperative for those who reach a respectable level of skill and musicianship.
In a way it is similar to getting your drivers license. before you get it you can't go anywhere, but when you do you have this great freedom.
As far as Imitating and modeling I thing it is a natural thing to do because in my opinion humans are learning creatures. If you trace it back to human evolution you find that we learn how to speak our language by imitating those around us in the early part of our development.. but learning and imitating is always there as we go through different stages of human growth because we're always effected by what we see and hear around us.


Very well said smile.gif In order to learn something you must first imitate and then personalize. Now, in a lot of cases, people stick to imitating, unfortunately, but if we could make those proverbial two steps back in order to figure out that we also need to make the second step, things would get much more creative smile.gif

Some people are scared to get out of their imitating habits - it's safe to be like someone else because you already know what that person did is working. But HE did it already, so why aren't you doing something of your own? That should be the question that could make someone at least start figuring out where they are smile.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Apr 21 2014, 08:55 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Apr 21 2014, 04:43 AM) *
Very well said smile.gif In order to learn something you must first imitate and then personalize. Now, in a lot of cases, people stick to imitating, unfortunately, but if we could make those proverbial two steps back in order to figure out that we also need to make the second step, things would get much more creative smile.gif

Some people are scared to get out of their imitating habits - it's safe to be like someone else because you already know what that person did is working. But HE did it already, so why aren't you doing something of your own? That should be the question that could make someone at least start figuring out where they are smile.gif



This is turning a very interesting thread. Copying is a good first exercise to train our abilities and to slowly start to discover our own style and personality in every aspect of life. We are unique and that's what makes us special. Why would we just stick on the first step and lose the possibility of discovering what our soul is trying to express. smile.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Apr 22 2014, 04:40 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Apr 21 2014, 07:55 PM) *
This is turning a very interesting thread. Copying is a good first exercise to train our abilities and to slowly start to discover our own style and personality in every aspect of life. We are unique and that's what makes us special. Why would we just stick on the first step and lose the possibility of discovering what our soul is trying to express. smile.gif


Indeed it is smile.gif I think that you need to copy something in order to understand a principle and then, transform the principle in order to evoke it in your own manner. At least this is what I am trying to do - sometimes it works immediately, sometimes it doesn't smile.gif It's all trial and error, so be curious and explore all the time!


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