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liveOASISforever
post Mar 15 2014, 09:07 AM
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Hi

I am practicing a lot on my bends at the moment and adding vibrato. My question is when applying vibrato to a bend do you let the bend go flat and bend back up to pitch or bend the not sharp and let it come down to pitch.I think bending the note sharp would require more strength in the fingers but I feel that I have more control doing it this way
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Cosmin Lupu
post Mar 15 2014, 11:45 AM
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Hey mate smile.gif usually, when I think of visualizing this technique, I imagine that the string is in pitch on the note which you have reached with the bend and you have to vibrate around that point as if the string would be in its normal 'unbent state. You need to shift your focus on the new note, as that's where you are now. This is the basic approach, as there are a lot of possibilities, but first you need to become aware of this idea smile.gif If you could post a vid with you executing a few of these bends in slow motion, I could help further for certain wink.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Mar 15 2014, 02:57 PM
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Hi friend! Cosmin illustrated it perfectly. It's not exactly going flat and sharp because it just happens when the vibrato are very wide and nervous (you won't want to make every bend sound like that). But it's truth that you move around the note and go a big higher and a bit lower the note when you do vibrato. As it happens with vibrato without bending. And yes, you're right about having to do more strength when you want to add vibrato to a bend.

Also, check this video:



and of course this lesson:

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Bens-Vibrato-Odyssey-5/

This post has been edited by Gabriel Leopardi: Mar 15 2014, 02:58 PM


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Darius Wave
post Mar 15 2014, 04:54 PM
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In my case:

1. Vibrato alone (NOT the classical vibrato!) - pitch up and release to right pitch (no matter which direction - up or donw You always make string go up with the pitch
2. While bending - bend, little release (down pitch), come back to right pitch.

That's how I'm doing it


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Cosmin Lupu
post Mar 16 2014, 10:38 AM
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For me, the articulation techniques - vibrato or bending or slides, have been built up with a lot of actual ear training. In short words - I always aimed to mimic everything I heard smile.gif Be it a sax squeal or a violin phrase, anyway, you should always aim for non-guitar stuff when you want to mimic things. In that way, you will not be tempted to try and find tabs or look at the way that thing is actually played. You have to figure out how to play it and then get it to sound as close to the original thing as possible. With a lot of exercise, this will become a VERY valuable skill smile.gif


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Kristofer Dahl
post Mar 16 2014, 11:16 AM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Mar 15 2014, 04:54 PM) *
1. Vibrato alone (NOT the classical vibrato!) - pitch up and release to right pitch (no matter which direction - up or down You always make string go up with the pitch

Yes and I think this is a 'problem' with the guitar - it is very hard to do standard vibrato without playing too sharp (and thereby hurting your listeners' ears). Like Darius says no matter if you bend your string up or down you are still going up in pitch (because string tension increases when you bend, up or down).

Of course there are some circumstances where that aggressive sharp vibrato works well. But for softer melodies for example - I would prefer to use the whammy bar for vibrato, or bend up to the notes you plan to let ring (then you can use the second method Darius described - which is much more ear-friendly):

QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Mar 15 2014, 04:54 PM) *
2. While bending - bend, little release (down pitch), come back to right pitch.



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liveOASISforever
post Mar 16 2014, 01:35 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Mar 15 2014, 10:45 AM) *
Hey mate smile.gif usually, when I think of visualizing this technique, I imagine that the string is in pitch on the note which you have reached with the bend and you have to vibrate around that point as if the string would be in its normal 'unbent state. You need to shift your focus on the new note, as that's where you are now. This is the basic approach, as there are a lot of possibilities, but first you need to become aware of this idea smile.gif If you could post a vid with you executing a few of these bends in slow motion, I could help further for certain wink.gif


Cosmin will give it some more practice and get a video up for you tomorrow. I love listening to bends with vibrato and really into Zakk Wylde,s aggressive vibrato

I could listen to this one all day smile.gif


QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Mar 15 2014, 01:57 PM) *
Hi friend! Cosmin illustrated it perfectly. It's not exactly going flat and sharp because it just happens when the vibrato are very wide and nervous (you won't want to make every bend sound like that). But it's truth that you move around the note and go a big higher and a bit lower the note when you do vibrato. As it happens with vibrato without bending. And yes, you're right about having to do more strength when you want to add vibrato to a bend.

Also, check this video:



and of course this lesson:

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Bens-Vibrato-Odyssey-5/


Thanks Gabriel for posting the video. smile.gif

This post has been edited by liveOASISforever: Mar 16 2014, 01:30 PM
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Cosmin Lupu
post Mar 16 2014, 01:47 PM
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Ok mate wink.gif Looking forward to see your vid and that makes two of us biggrin.gif I also like Zakk's vibrato and playing in general!


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Darius Wave
post Mar 17 2014, 02:23 PM
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Waiting for some vids of Your vibrato workshop. It's great that You can provide such a detailed analysis. It's a very first and very important step to master particular techniques


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Caelumamittendum
post Mar 17 2014, 02:43 PM
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I know this video isn't about bending, but it has some very nice tips anyway:



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liveOASISforever
post Mar 17 2014, 09:14 PM
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I have being watching a few different videos and looking at different peoples techniques. On one of Guthrie Govan's videos. He says to make the bend a little sharp before starting the vibrato this way it won't sound flat.

Then I was amazed to find out that B.B King doesn't use his thumb on the back of the neck when he does his vibrato.This seems very hard.

My bends are really poor. I am working on them but they never seem to be consistent in reaching the correct pitch.Then my vibrato sounds terrible in this video.I think that its mostly due to not having the finger strength to be able to control everything I will get better faster by showing you all where I am at with it and get your advice smile.gif

I will need to give my fingers a rest now because they are becoming very ache laugh.gif





QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Mar 17 2014, 01:43 PM) *
I know this video isn't about bending, but it has some very nice tips anyway:



Thanks for sharing mate.Its always good watching different peoples approach to things.
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Cosmin Lupu
post Mar 18 2014, 09:04 AM
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Hey mate! It looks ok to me - your thumb is anchored and the movement occurs from the wrist smile.gif Now it's pretty much a question of:

- gathering experience by playing as much as possible in contexts that have articulation as a main goal
- working out your ears in order to be able to aim for the desired notes fast and precise

Keep up the good work here!

QUOTE (liveOASISforever @ Mar 17 2014, 08:14 PM) *
I have being watching a few different videos and looking at different peoples techniques. On one of Guthrie Govan's videos. He says to make the bend a little sharp before starting the vibrato this way it won't sound flat.

Then I was amazed to find out that B.B King doesn't use his thumb on the back of the neck when he does his vibrato.This seems very hard.

My bends are really poor. I am working on them but they never seem to be consistent in reaching the correct pitch.Then my vibrato sounds terrible in this video.I think that its mostly due to not having the finger strength to be able to control everything I will get better faster by showing you all where I am at with it and get your advice smile.gif

I will need to give my fingers a rest now because they are becoming very ache laugh.gif




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liveOASISforever
post Mar 18 2014, 06:37 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Mar 18 2014, 08:04 AM) *
Hey mate! It looks ok to me - your thumb is anchored and the movement occurs from the wrist smile.gif Now it's pretty much a question of:

- gathering experience by playing as much as possible in contexts that have articulation as a main goal
- working out your ears in order to be able to aim for the desired notes fast and precise

Keep up the good work here!


Cheers Cosmin

I totally agree with your points.I am trying to work with my ear training a lot more and really focus on the sound of notes,chords and scales ect. To try and process this into my head. To be honest I have neglected this in the past and really need to change things by working hard at it now smile.gif
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Cosmin Lupu
post Mar 19 2014, 08:51 AM
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QUOTE (liveOASISforever @ Mar 18 2014, 05:37 PM) *
Cheers Cosmin

I totally agree with your points.I am trying to work with my ear training a lot more and really focus on the sound of notes,chords and scales ect. To try and process this into my head. To be honest I have neglected this in the past and really need to change things by working hard at it now smile.gif


It's never too late to become conscious of a situation and work on improving wink.gif It would only shameful if you realize it, you can do it, but you won't smile.gif Share some progress here with us and I'll be happy to share my thoughts on how you can improve bends and articulation in general wink.gif


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Darius Wave
post Mar 20 2014, 10:01 AM
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Your left hand look good even if it's still visible that You hesitate between wrist and fingers muscles while vibrating. The good news is the video shows You know how the vibrating mechanism works and it's only a matter of time when it will start to feel very natural and consistent. Keep us updated. You're doing well with this smile.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Mar 20 2014, 02:54 PM
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QUOTE (liveOASISforever @ Mar 17 2014, 05:14 PM) *
I have being watching a few different videos and looking at different peoples techniques. On one of Guthrie Govan's videos. He says to make the bend a little sharp before starting the vibrato this way it won't sound flat.

Then I was amazed to find out that B.B King doesn't use his thumb on the back of the neck when he does his vibrato.This seems very hard.

My bends are really poor. I am working on them but they never seem to be consistent in reaching the correct pitch.Then my vibrato sounds terrible in this video.I think that its mostly due to not having the finger strength to be able to control everything I will get better faster by showing you all where I am at with it and get your advice smile.gif

I will need to give my fingers a rest now because they are becoming very ache laugh.gif







Thanks for sharing mate.Its always good watching different peoples approach to things.



As Cosmin and Darius said, everything looks good on your video. You are playing the bends with the right motion and adding vibrato correctly. You aren't still comfortable with both techniques because you need practice to train your year and gain more strength with your left hand. If it's possible practice bending over backing tracks to be sure that you are reaching the correct pitches.


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liveOASISforever
post Mar 20 2014, 07:21 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Mar 20 2014, 09:01 AM) *
Your left hand look good even if it's still visible that You hesitate between wrist and fingers muscles while vibrating. The good news is the video shows You know how the vibrating mechanism works and it's only a matter of time when it will start to feel very natural and consistent. Keep us updated. You're doing well with this smile.gif


Thanks a lot Darius.I am dedicating a good amount of practice time each day to this.So hopefully it does become more natural to me smile.gif

QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Mar 20 2014, 01:54 PM) *
As Cosmin and Darius said, everything looks good on your video. You are playing the bends with the right motion and adding vibrato correctly. You aren't still comfortable with both techniques because you need practice to train your year and gain more strength with your left hand. If it's possible practice bending over backing tracks to be sure that you are reaching the correct pitches.


I think thats a good idea Gabriel to practice over a backing track. I will start doing this.You are right about it still not being comfortable but after giving some focused practice on it over the last few days I can feel it becoming more comfortable.

QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Mar 19 2014, 07:51 AM) *
It's never too late to become conscious of a situation and work on improving wink.gif It would only shameful if you realize it, you can do it, but you won't smile.gif Share some progress here with us and I'll be happy to share my thoughts on how you can improve bends and articulation in general wink.gif


Very true Cosmin. I used to play bends not knowing whether they were too the correct pitch or not because I was a lazy player. Now I have a different and more positive way of thinking and going over all these important details to improve my guitar playing.
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Cosmin Lupu
post Mar 21 2014, 09:41 AM
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QUOTE (liveOASISforever @ Mar 20 2014, 06:21 PM) *
Very true Cosmin. I used to play bends not knowing whether they were too the correct pitch or not because I was a lazy player. Now I have a different and more positive way of thinking and going over all these important details to improve my guitar playing.


It may sound a bit weird, but I was always very scared of the idea of sounding a bit under pitched or over pitched and since I began realizing the importance of good articulation, I was obsessing over bending and vibrato. It ended up as a good thing as I've been training my ears unconsciously and that gave me good results smile.gif


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wrk
post Mar 21 2014, 11:56 AM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Mar 21 2014, 09:41 AM) *
It may sound a bit weird, but I was always very scared of the idea of sounding a bit under pitched or over pitched and since I began realizing the importance of good articulation, I was obsessing over bending and vibrato. It ended up as a good thing as I've been training my ears unconsciously and that gave me good results smile.gif

Oh man, i have a love/hate relationship with bends. It’s imo what makes guitar playing so beautiful and unique as you can really “shape” the notes the way you want, but it can destroy everything if the pitch is wrong.

Nearly on every recording i do, i stay left with some doubts if the pitch is correct and i’m always unsure about it. Often on my normal headphones/monitors it sounds correct, but listening to it on internal speakers of my laptop or low quality headphones the doubts come back. The reduced frequency range of these speakers seem to make some overtones more auditable.



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Cosmin Lupu
post Mar 22 2014, 09:02 AM
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QUOTE (wrk @ Mar 21 2014, 10:56 AM) *
Oh man, i have a love/hate relationship with bends. It’s imo what makes guitar playing so beautiful and unique as you can really “shape” the notes the way you want, but it can destroy everything if the pitch is wrong.

Nearly on every recording i do, i stay left with some doubts if the pitch is correct and i’m always unsure about it. Often on my normal headphones/monitors it sounds correct, but listening to it on internal speakers of my laptop or low quality headphones the doubts come back. The reduced frequency range of these speakers seem to make some overtones more auditable.


Mate, pitch is pitch smile.gif I don't think that i was ever put in the situation of recording something within pitch and then hearing it badly because of tech issues. It was usually just my playing. Now, a good exercise that will always show you how to stay in pitch, would be to play along the lessons you are learning and try to imitate the everything note for note. It's one of the best ear training exercises EVER!


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