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> Vibrato Bends Question
wrk
post Mar 22 2014, 11:00 AM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Mar 22 2014, 09:02 AM) *
Mate, pitch is pitch smile.gif I don't think that i was ever put in the situation of recording something within pitch and then hearing it badly because of tech issues. It was usually just my playing. Now, a good exercise that will always show you how to stay in pitch, would be to play along the lessons you are learning and try to imitate the everything note for note. It's one of the best ear training exercises EVER!

Sorry, i was not really clear i guess … of course it’s my playing and not technical issues if the pitch is wrong! I just have the impression i can hear and verify pitch errors easier on low qualify speakers (more high frequencies balanced speakers) as on my normal speakers/headphones.

The pitch on simple bends is quite easy to check, but a bend with all kinds of variations like pre-bend, fast or slow bend or release, vibrato, and what not … i find it difficult to be sure. I thought my ears are normally not too bad, but maybe there are doing funny things with me sometimes smile.gif








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Darius Wave
post Mar 22 2014, 12:50 PM
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WRK - to be honest I don't know what to think about it smile.gif I do use different speaker for mixing purpose and there is a reason for this but in deed...never consider any speaker type affect my hearing in the field of pitch. Hard to tell what's exaclty happening in Your case...sounds very interesting smile.gif


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wrk
post Mar 22 2014, 02:57 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Mar 22 2014, 12:50 PM) *
WRK - to be honest I don't know what to think about it smile.gif I do use different speaker for mixing purpose and there is a reason for this but in deed...never consider any speaker type affect my hearing in the field of pitch. Hard to tell what's exaclty happening in Your case...sounds very interesting smile.gif

Oh oh, i thought it’s a common issue, but now i start to get scared laugh.gif

Seems i can evaluate pitch easier in higher frequencies ranges. For example, if i tune my guitar without a tuner, i often check as well the tuning with harmonics (7th fret E string, 5th fret A string, etc ..)

For recording i use an iMac with AKG K271 Headphones or Yamaha HS50 speaker. The complete frequency range on both are quite balanced. If i listen to the same take on the internal speaker of my Mac Air or the standard apple in ear headphones, the frequency spectrum is a bit limited and high orientated … not sure if this is completely correct, but this is how i hear it.

It’s not really a “pitch check strategy” to use different speakers, but often a bad surprise where i start to have doubts if the pitch is correct or not.

Hope my explanation is not completely senseless smile.gif





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Cosmin Lupu
post Mar 22 2014, 03:29 PM
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QUOTE (wrk @ Mar 22 2014, 10:00 AM) *
Sorry, i was not really clear i guess … of course it’s my playing and not technical issues if the pitch is wrong! I just have the impression i can hear and verify pitch errors easier on low qualify speakers (more high frequencies balanced speakers) as on my normal speakers/headphones.

The pitch on simple bends is quite easy to check, but a bend with all kinds of variations like pre-bend, fast or slow bend or release, vibrato, and what not … i find it difficult to be sure. I thought my ears are normally not too bad, but maybe there are doing funny things with me sometimes smile.gif


Mate, usually, when your ears get really well accustomed with things you will be able to hear stuff in the roughest of environments. Start working with your ears more and you will definitely feel the benefits wink.gif


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wrk
post Mar 23 2014, 11:14 AM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Mar 22 2014, 03:29 PM) *
Mate, usually, when your ears get really well accustomed with things you will be able to hear stuff in the roughest of environments. Start working with your ears more and you will definitely feel the benefits wink.gif

Hm, i guess you are right. Thanks Cosmin !! .. smile.gif



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Cosmin Lupu
post Mar 23 2014, 11:33 AM
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Nothing to it mate! Glad to help wink.gif


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Darius Wave
post Mar 25 2014, 03:47 PM
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QUOTE (wrk @ Mar 22 2014, 02:57 PM) *
Oh oh, i thought it’s a common issue, but now i start to get scared laugh.gif

Seems i can evaluate pitch easier in higher frequencies ranges. For example, if i tune my guitar without a tuner, i often check as well the tuning with harmonics (7th fret E string, 5th fret A string, etc ..)

For recording i use an iMac with AKG K271 Headphones or Yamaha HS50 speaker. The complete frequency range on both are quite balanced. If i listen to the same take on the internal speaker of my Mac Air or the standard apple in ear headphones, the frequency spectrum is a bit limited and high orientated … not sure if this is completely correct, but this is how i hear it.

It’s not really a “pitch check strategy” to use different speakers, but often a bad surprise where i start to have doubts if the pitch is correct or not.

Hope my explanation is not completely senseless smile.gif



You're explanation is well written and clear smile.gif I think it's very good to talk about thoughts like Your's. Being curious is what make us discover and understand things. I'm afraid that this issue is much more complicated. Consider all of us have a bit different hearing. It refers to mixing as well.

I hope it's just something that Cosmin mentioned - maybe a matter of workout smile.gif

I wish You solve the problem.. honestly smile.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Mar 26 2014, 09:02 AM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Mar 25 2014, 02:47 PM) *
You're explanation is well written and clear smile.gif I think it's very good to talk about thoughts like Your's. Being curious is what make us discover and understand things. I'm afraid that this issue is much more complicated. Consider all of us have a bit different hearing. It refers to mixing as well.

I hope it's just something that Cosmin mentioned - maybe a matter of workout smile.gif

I wish You solve the problem.. honestly smile.gif


Darius is right and I would suggest a little test smile.gif Try listening to things early in the morning, when the ears are at their best wink.gif You will see then if there are some differences, way better than in other situations.


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wrk
post Mar 26 2014, 09:32 AM
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I might even add more to it as there really is of an issue. True, listening with fresh ears after a break often helps. On normal recordings those things can be easily fixed, but it’s quite annoying when i record a video and play the whole tune/solo and then realise later that some bends are not perfect. It’s like an obsession at the moment and my technique seems not be 100% as well.

Thanks again Darius and Cosmin !!


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Darius Wave
post Mar 26 2014, 10:27 AM
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Well....guitar is a nasty instrument in case of tuning anyway smile.gif Bends are only one aspect...we also have issues caused by different pressure on the fret tongue.gif Also...tune getting messed by the temperature on stage...those are just a few examples. How poor we are tongue.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Mar 27 2014, 09:46 AM
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Glad to have been able to help out mate - Darius is right smile.gif The guitar is like a moody woman, beautiful and sweet, but extremely moody.

I always place my guitars onstage at least 30 minutes before the show so that they will get used to the stage temperature and then before starting, our tech gives them a final tuning.


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guitarsennin
post Dec 19 2014, 07:16 AM
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I was trying to make my vibrato similar to that of a vocalist, so what I did was slow down a track and I listened to how the singer put their vibrato (I listened to a few singers), and what I noticed was common between all of them was that they would hit the note, and then go slightly SHARP, and then back to the note, when they did vibrato.


When I bend, I naturally make my vibrato go flat, then back to target note, then back, etc. and I found it very hard to do my bend vibratos sharp. (I'll have to work on that). So I tend to do target note-flat - target note when I do a vibrato on a bend, but sharp when I do it on a regular fretted note.

I don't know why it's like that for me, and I find that I really like how my normal vibrato sounds (which, on a guitar, is always sharp), but not so much my bend vibrato.

I don't think there really is a correct way, but to me, it sounds nicer to slightly sharpen the note during vibrato.

Try finding a guitarist whose vibrato you really like (or any instrument) and slow down a track and see if you can figure out what they're doing.

This post has been edited by guitarsennin: Dec 19 2014, 07:19 AM
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fkalich
post Dec 19 2014, 07:35 AM
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A singer's vibrato is a sort of quirky physiological thing, It is more akin to pick tapping, opposing muscle sets are held constricted and alternatively each side is relaxed, typically about 7 cycles a second or so.

This is the vocal vibrato that I personally try to emulate when playing guitar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwHWbsvgQUE

QUOTE (guitarsennin @ Dec 19 2014, 01:16 AM) *
I was trying to make my vibrato similar to that of a vocalist, so what I


This post has been edited by fkalich: Dec 19 2014, 07:40 AM
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Cosmin Lupu
post Dec 19 2014, 07:12 PM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Dec 19 2014, 06:35 AM) *
A singer's vibrato is a sort of quirky physiological thing, It is more akin to pick tapping, opposing muscle sets are held constricted and alternatively each side is relaxed, typically about 7 cycles a second or so.

This is the vocal vibrato that I personally try to emulate when playing guitar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwHWbsvgQUE


Ohohooo - this one is pretty violent I'd say biggrin.gif In the last reply, our friend - guitarsennin - has made the best point. Try to imitate the vibrato/bending/expression of the artist you enjoy listening to and I would add that you don't and should definitely not resume to guitarists - try saxophone players, violinists, vocalists of course. Pick up your favorite lines played by the type of instruments I have mentioned and try to sort them out with the guitar - your ears and hands will thank you, as soon as you get as close to the original expression of those instruments.


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fkalich
post Dec 19 2014, 08:43 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Dec 19 2014, 01:12 PM) *
Ohohooo - this one is pretty violent I'd say biggrin.gif In the last reply, our friend - guitarsennin - has made the best point. Try to imitate the vibrato/bending/expression of the artist you enjoy listening to and I would add that you don't and should definitely not resume to guitarists - try saxophone players, violinists, vocalists of course. Pick up your favorite lines played by the type of instruments I have mentioned and try to sort them out with the guitar - your ears and hands will thank you, as soon as you get as close to the original expression of those instruments.


I've heard violinists who had a great vibrato. But to tell you the truth, I have never heard a guitarist that I thought had a really great vibrato. I'm working on it though.
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Rhida
post Dec 19 2014, 11:34 PM
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Listen to Yngwie Malmsteen or Gary Moore!
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Bossie
post Dec 20 2014, 01:06 AM
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When it comes to bending and vibrato i'm always glad when i get some fresh strings on the guitar ...always a world of difference when you get the smoothness of fresh strings
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Cosmin Lupu
post Dec 20 2014, 09:01 AM
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QUOTE (Rhida @ Dec 19 2014, 10:34 PM) *
Listen to Yngwie Malmsteen or Gary Moore!


Good point - or Andy Timmons/Satriani/Guthrie Govan or Dimebag Darrel biggrin.gif Every one of them has a trademark touch on the guitar which makes them extremely recognizable!


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