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> Some Pretty Darn Clever Self Promo (great Example)
Todd Simpson
post Apr 3 2014, 02:48 AM
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There is a project called THE GHOST SHIP OCTAVIOUS coming out with a CD at some point and it's a textbook in very clever marketing and getting word about your music to the people. This band that I"d never heard of, all the sudden is all over my social media. They did it by getting some KILLER famous guitar players to play guest spots on the new yet to be recorded songs (presumably by paying the guest soloists) and BOOM instant gravity!!

So Jeff Loomis and some of the other usual suspects are going to play on this once it gets actually written / recorded. But until then it's a clinic in how to get your next music project funded, and promoted using the tools of trades outside the "Music Biz" walls. or really, this is the new music biz smile.gif

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/136884...ius-debut-album

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Cosmin Lupu
post Apr 4 2014, 08:38 AM
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Getting killer players on your record is not too expensive out of what I know - plus, with the age of the internet, they can work like we do in collabs smile.gif I see this as a GMC collab featuring guitar gods and yes, it's a great way to promote your material! But what of the next step? It would be pretty nasty to rely on the presence of those guys and on the next material, to be pressured to find another gimmick if the music isn't that great.


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Darius Wave
post Apr 4 2014, 11:11 AM
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I wonder if people expect to see all of those live when they buy a ticket for a gig of this band biggrin.gif


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Sensible Jones
post Apr 4 2014, 11:32 AM
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That is, indeed, a clever bit of self-promotion! Especially using this amazing Intrawebz as we do for Collabs!
As Cos and Darius mention though, what happens for the follow up album and what about any Live Shows??


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Cosmin Lupu
post Apr 5 2014, 11:55 AM
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Correct!! I forgot about the live gigs - I must admit though that it would be TOTALLY awesome to see those guys onstage rocking together even if it's just for one time only wink.gif


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Caelumamittendum
post Apr 5 2014, 11:57 AM
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That is one evil line up!


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Todd Simpson
post Apr 5 2014, 07:42 PM
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IF the music "isn't that great" then it really doesn't matter what gimmicks you use IMHO. I"m starting from the assumption that whatever project one is considering trying to promote doesn't just sorta suck. Hopefully, folks let others hear it first and get an idea of whether it's good or not smile.gif

What I'm talking about here is finding a way to add some heat and gravitas to any release. As you know, the primary problem is getting ANYBODY to care. So assuming the music is good, the next step is to get creative to find a way to make anyone care enough to actually listen. Using guest solos is a great way to do it smile.gif





QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Apr 4 2014, 03:38 AM) *
Getting killer players on your record is not too expensive out of what I know - plus, with the age of the internet, they can work like we do in collabs smile.gif I see this as a GMC collab featuring guitar gods and yes, it's a great way to promote your material! But what of the next step? It would be pretty nasty to rely on the presence of those guys and on the next material, to be pressured to find another gimmick if the music isn't that great.


From what I can read on the promo these are GUEST SOLOS, it doesn't say anywhere that they are "Touring Members". So no.

QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Apr 4 2014, 06:11 AM) *
I wonder if people expect to see all of those live when they buy a ticket for a gig of this band biggrin.gif


Just trying to share how one group is using clever tactics to get FUNDING to record a quality product and getting VIRAL BUZZ by using guest spots. I see so many folks trying to put out music to NOBODY hoping that it will find it's way. So trying to share some ideas to get folks thinking PROMO.

As for fulture plans/tours, no clue.


QUOTE (Sensible Jones @ Apr 4 2014, 06:32 AM) *
That is, indeed, a clever bit of self-promotion! Especially using this amazing Intrawebz as we do for Collabs!
As Cos and Darius mention though, what happens for the follow up album and what about any Live Shows??


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Cosmin Lupu
post Apr 6 2014, 05:57 PM
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Indeed, Todd - I didn't say that the music should suck wink.gif Note that there's a BIG number of bands that are technically playing very well, but not coming up with anything new or with anything which can touch people for real. To suck, in my opinion, is to play bad, sound bad and not transmit any message at all. For instance, Nirvana, was a band that sounded rowdy and unclean and not technical and so on, but there was a tremendous energy there and a message with a power so great that it got them heard by a whole planet.

It's just that we are swimming in an ocean of bands and sometimes, in order to stand out, you need to bring up something new to the table all the time.


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Todd Simpson
post Apr 6 2014, 07:30 PM
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It's the "not coming up with anything new/not connecting/etc." which I'd place in the "SUCK" category smile.gif Not talking about technical playing, I"m talking about music that is simply not going to resonate with fans. That's the "suck" smile.gif So yeah we are on the same exact page.

Assuming one has made some tracks that have gotten a great response from friends/fans/anyone, then it's time to consider a release. At that point, it's time to think promo to get above the noise level of the web. That's the point of posts like these, trying to help folks once they are at the point of release wink.gif

Until that point, this is moot. If you don't have at least an EP of material that's just great, your not ready to consider how to promote it IMHO.

Once the material is "good" and one starts to consider how to share it, ideas like these guys trick of using semi famous guest spots is a good one smile.gif Any idea that gets people to actually listen to something they've not heard of before is a good idea. If you have any, please share in this thread smile.gif Every body in fact. Breaking through the noise level on the web is tough. But it's possible wink.gif

QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Apr 6 2014, 12:57 PM) *
Indeed, Todd - I didn't say that the music should suck wink.gif Note that there's a BIG number of bands that are technically playing very well, but not coming up with anything new or with anything which can touch people for real. To suck, in my opinion, is to play bad, sound bad and not transmit any message at all. For instance, Nirvana, was a band that sounded rowdy and unclean and not technical and so on, but there was a tremendous energy there and a message with a power so great that it got them heard by a whole planet.

It's just that we are swimming in an ocean of bands and sometimes, in order to stand out, you need to bring up something new to the table all the time.


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Cosmin Lupu
post Apr 7 2014, 10:39 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Apr 6 2014, 06:30 PM) *
It's the "not coming up with anything new/not connecting/etc." which I'd place in the "SUCK" category smile.gif Not talking about technical playing, I"m talking about music that is simply not going to resonate with fans. That's the "suck" smile.gif So yeah we are on the same exact page.

Assuming one has made some tracks that have gotten a great response from friends/fans/anyone, then it's time to consider a release. At that point, it's time to think promo to get above the noise level of the web. That's the point of posts like these, trying to help folks once they are at the point of release wink.gif

Until that point, this is moot. If you don't have at least an EP of material that's just great, your not ready to consider how to promote it IMHO.

Once the material is "good" and one starts to consider how to share it, ideas like these guys trick of using semi famous guest spots is a good one smile.gif Any idea that gets people to actually listen to something they've not heard of before is a good idea. If you have any, please share in this thread smile.gif Every body in fact. Breaking through the noise level on the web is tough. But it's possible wink.gif


All of what you stated is true and we all know that the internet is an amazing power ramp for anything that's good and of course anything that's bad - I just noticed yesterday, that Jamie Humprhies - the British guitar instructor and artist has posted a video recording that is currently considered the worst cover version of a Rage Against The Machine tune, performed by a band from my country. They have gone viral over the whole internet ... Sad to see that only the bad stuff was being pushed so far smile.gif We have a lot of amazing artists here but no one posts those unfortunately..


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Apr 7 2014, 01:26 PM
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Seems a little odd to have Neil Kernon record, mix, produce and master the entire thing. Neil's a very good engineer and producer but I don't think he's ever claimed to be a mastering engineer. Even if he had it is just not a good idea to have the same person do all those different things.


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Apr 7 2014, 03:30 PM
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It's so difficult to stand up nowadays when you are just starting and ideas like this one can help to get some extra attraction by fans and press so I think that it's a good movement. We are now talking about them! it worked.

I'm not sure if I would use this idea since it affects too much to the musical side of a projectand it adds problem when you want to support it live and continue with a new album, but this idea should inspired everybody to think on fresh ways to reach more people with our music.



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Todd Simpson
post Apr 8 2014, 04:21 AM
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OUCH!!!!! This is a great point. You gotta put your music/vid in front of other folks BEFORE you share it with the world. And not just in front of folks who are going to say how great it is. People that will be honest and critical if needed. If you put something out and it's terrible, it can go viral the same way something good can go viral. Sadly, if you get known as "The band with that famously awful video" you may have to start over or embrace being "those guys" smile.gif




QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Apr 7 2014, 05:39 AM) *
All of what you stated is true and we all know that the internet is an amazing power ramp for anything that's good and of course anything that's bad - I just noticed yesterday, that Jamie Humprhies - the British guitar instructor and artist has posted a video recording that is currently considered the worst cover version of a Rage Against The Machine tune, performed by a band from my country. They have gone viral over the whole internet ... Sad to see that only the bad stuff was being pushed so far smile.gif We have a lot of amazing artists here but no one posts those unfortunately..



A band like CIRSE doesn't really need this kind of gimmick.

You have an established "brand" and a good sized audience. This sort of thing is helpful for folks/bands trying to gain some sort of traction, as I mentioned in the original post. So for those playing large festivals, stadiums, etc. You can probably skip offering guest spots to youtube stars smile.gif

For everyone else, the more cross promotion the better smile.gif

Also, I really am not suggesting that anyone would pay to have these people tour with them. It's just a promo thing. IF one of them can show up for a gig it wouldn't hurt smile.gif But yeah, mostly just to get some "Buzz" on the project. smile.gif




QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Apr 7 2014, 10:30 AM) *
It's so difficult to stand up nowadays when you are just starting and ideas like this one can help to get some extra attraction by fans and press so I think that it's a good movement. We are now talking about them! it worked.

I'm not sure if I would use this idea since it affects too much to the musical side of a projectand it adds problem when you want to support it live and continue with a new album, but this idea should inspired everybody to think on fresh ways to reach more people with our music.



In a perfect world right smile.gif I"m guessing the budget is low and he offered a "bundle" price as many producer/engineers seem to be doing just to keep working.

QUOTE (tonymiro @ Apr 7 2014, 08:26 AM) *
Seems a little odd to have Neil Kernon record, mix, produce and master the entire thing. Neil's a very good engineer and producer but I don't think he's ever claimed to be a mastering engineer. Even if he had it is just not a good idea to have the same person do all those different things.



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Cosmin Lupu
post Apr 8 2014, 07:47 AM
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Ah, Todd, it was not them who put it biggrin.gif The cover was SO bad, that someone in the audience filmed it and posted it. Now, this is self explanatory - enjoy the video:



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Saoirse O'Shea
post Apr 8 2014, 10:06 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Apr 8 2014, 04:21 AM) *
...

In a perfect world right smile.gif I"m guessing the budget is low and he offered a "bundle" price as many producer/engineers seem to be doing just to keep working.


I know whay you mean Todd. Last time I spoke with him, which admittedly was 3 or so years ago, he charged over $30k+ to produce and mix an album plus incidentals costs (studio hire etc) had to be met by the client. So even if he's reduced his fees he isn't low budget. In all honesty if a client can afford the $30k plus then they can also afford to pay for separate mastering by a specialist.*

In this particular case I'd say it's more to do with promotion and publicity about hiring a big name be the producer and engineer. Happens a lot in the industry - people pay big money to hire a 'name producer' and skimp on the rest, or worse still pay for a 'name' who has no real engineering background and whose 'name' is based on having been in a well known band.

A little OT - most of us prefer to book and schedule work well in advance so we can arrange studio time efficiently. This one is odd as they can't go in to the studio until they have the crowd funding in place and that could be tomorrow, next week, next month, next year... Personally I wouldn't even pencil that project in to my diary as you just don't know when/if it will show . So i'd tell them to come back to me when they had ALL the money in place.

*I was in London a few days back to talk with a name producer (can't say who at this stage) about an incoming job. His fee was a large part of the production budget and was way more than Neil's $30k. The budget for recording and mixing (at windmill) was more than $100k. Orchestra hire and incidentals was in at 50K (which personally I thought was too low but I'm not the producer). So the production budget without mastering was well over $200k. My fee for mastering this one is $3k (includes expenses for that meeting), so @ 1% of the production budget.

This post has been edited by tonymiro: Apr 8 2014, 10:07 AM


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klasaine
post Apr 8 2014, 04:09 PM
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Out here, everybody and his/her brother 'crowd funds' their record (indie documnetary, children's book, etc.). Even that's starting to become oversaturated, tedious eyewash.

I know that a lot bands pay for the production costs themselves and do a kickstarter or indie go-go campaign in the hope that their costs will be off-set.
*with kickstarter I believe you have to actually reach your goal to get the money and with indie go-go you keep what you get(?)

Don't get me wrong, I think crowd funding is great but now once again you have to offer something that stands out amongst the rest. Hence the 'guest' artists. It seems there's a ton of need funding requests now in my FB feed and in my inbox. I don't pay attention to most of them.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Apr 8 2014, 04:10 PM


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Apr 8 2014, 04:45 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Apr 8 2014, 03:47 AM) *
Ah, Todd, it was not them who put it biggrin.gif The cover was SO bad, that someone in the audience filmed it and posted it. Now, this is self explanatory - enjoy the video:




I would say that this is a Dangerous version... ph34r.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Apr 9 2014, 07:28 AM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Apr 8 2014, 03:09 PM) *
Out here, everybody and his/her brother 'crowd funds' their record (indie documnetary, children's book, etc.). Even that's starting to become oversaturated, tedious eyewash.

I know that a lot bands pay for the production costs themselves and do a kickstarter or indie go-go campaign in the hope that their costs will be off-set.
*with kickstarter I believe you have to actually reach your goal to get the money and with indie go-go you keep what you get(?)

Don't get me wrong, I think crowd funding is great but now once again you have to offer something that stands out amongst the rest. Hence the 'guest' artists. It seems there's a ton of need funding requests now in my FB feed and in my inbox. I don't pay attention to most of them.


I have no clue about Kickstarter's mechanisms, as it's not available for non-US citizens, but Indiegogo is pretty cool - it allows you to keep what you get and of course, a percentage goes to the site. Not much - somewhere around 4-9% I think?

Crowdfunding is a great way to gather resources, as nowadays, there are no more 'mecenas' as in the Renaissance period - the Medici family in Florence, aided a lot of artists into creating their amazing works. Sponsorship is VERY difficult to obtain - we have been treating with Jack Daniel's and they said, we are willing to help but you need to be bigger - how can we get bigger without the resources? It's gonna be tough, but we'll manage to get there and they will be coming to look for us, not viceversa.


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klasaine
post Apr 10 2014, 05:23 PM
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Don't even start me on why I think the Medici's as well the 'big' record companies were actually a great thing for art and artists as well - as culture in general.
It's old, it's dead and it's gone for now. On to the next.

*This is just a 'statement'. My opinion.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Apr 10 2014, 05:25 PM


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Todd Simpson
post Apr 11 2014, 12:01 AM
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30k is not low budget, but for example he did a NILE record for $5,000.

I read an interview where he talked about the budgets falling to crazy low levels. I'm guessing this band is no where close to 30k smile.gif Your spot on that they got him for the "Name" value I'd say smile.gif Also, he's good at what he does so value for money, can't blame them.

This trend is widespread in terms of budgets pushing their way to zero for artists below the top tier it seems. For example, in the same interview he said the budget for the first Lynch Mob record he worked on was $250,000. Compare that to the nile record. Sure, NILE isn't a huge band. Just a good example of of top guys working for peanuts which also seems to be the trend sadly.

QUOTE (tonymiro @ Apr 8 2014, 05:06 AM) *
I know whay you mean Todd. Last time I spoke with him, which admittedly was 3 or so years ago, he charged over $30k+ to pro.......
..
.



BINGO!!!!!!! smile.gif Nailed it.


QUOTE (klasaine @ Apr 8 2014, 11:09 AM) *
Out here, everybody and his/her brother 'crowd funds' their record (indie documnetary, children's book, etc.). Even that's starting to become oversaturated, tedious eyewash.

I know that a lot bands pay for the production costs themselves and do a kickstarter or indie go-go campaign in the hope that their costs will be off-set.
*with kickstarter I believe you have to actually reach your goal to get the money and with indie go-go you keep what you get(?)

Don't get me wrong, I think crowd funding is great but now once again you have to offer something that stands out amongst the rest. Hence the 'guest' artists. It seems there's a ton of need funding requests now in my FB feed and in my inbox. I don't pay attention to most of them.



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