Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Specific Sound/polyphia
enlo22
post Apr 13 2014, 06:10 PM
Post #1


Learning Guitar Hero
*

Group: Members
Posts: 416
Joined: 24-December 11
Member No.: 14.670



hey guys, I stumbled upon this band and i've noticed there's a perticular sound these guys have that idk how to describe, i've found a few other guitarist using this sound, idk if it's perticular modes or scales or chords... but i've enjoyed it because it doesn't sound as usual as most metal does. I'm completely clueless as to what they're doing in theory but are they using 7th chords? is that how they get that sound? for example in the solo in the intro the fast part at 22 seconds, i've heard that a lot but have no idea what's going on there lol. i'm mostly asking becasue i want to expand my knowledge and maybe create this kind of sound in certain parts of songs but i have not a clue or direction lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jhZB73IawI


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Caelumamittendum
post Apr 13 2014, 06:15 PM
Post #2


Learning Rock Star
*

Group: Members
Posts: 4.383
Joined: 14-June 08
From: Copenhagen, Denmark
Member No.: 5.298



That's just the Rick Graham effect. Any song he's in automatically becomes awesome from one end to the other!


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
enlo22
post Apr 14 2014, 03:13 AM
Post #3


Learning Guitar Hero
*

Group: Members
Posts: 416
Joined: 24-December 11
Member No.: 14.670



QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Apr 13 2014, 05:15 PM) *
That's just the Rick Graham effect. Any song he's in automatically becomes awesome from one end to the other!


haha yeah, he's great, but I mean more as in like what chords they use etcc


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Gabriel Leopardi
post Apr 14 2014, 03:40 PM
Post #4


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 28.418
Joined: 3-March 07
From: Argentina
Member No.: 1.289



Well, they usually include more modal stuff in their songs compared with other metal bands. I would call this stuff, fusion metal so if you explore our fusion lessons at gmc, you will learn a lot of ideas that are applied here. However, things are even simpler in this song. The first section is in D major scale, and the lead guitarist makes the difference with his phrasing which shows strong improvisation skills, since he moves with the chords using arpeggios, remarking notes like the 7th of each chords and also some 9ths to give the overall solo a very fresh sound. Metal is usually composed using minor tonalities, so the use of major, with the addition of some 7ths and 9ths in the chord progression and soloing give this a very original sound.
There is also one moment where the backing chord is E minor and the played keeps on A note (the fourth), and the effect is a beautiful tension.

Just play this first two chords and you will get the feel: Dmaj7 - Dsus2

In the part that you marked, I think that he is playing B pentatonic minor scale, played using a 3 notes per string shape and skipping strings. The notes of this pentatonic are part of the overall tonality but using just the notes belonging to that penta scale give this a modal sound. The chord sounding at that moment is Em. Experiment with this idea and check this lesson:

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guit...itution-lesson/

This post has been edited by Gabriel Leopardi: Apr 16 2014, 02:46 PM


--------------------
My lessons

Do you need a Guitar Plan?
Join Gab's Army

Check my band:Cirse
Check my soundcloud:Soundcloud

Please subscribe to my:Youtube Channel
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
enlo22
post Apr 14 2014, 11:31 PM
Post #5


Learning Guitar Hero
*

Group: Members
Posts: 416
Joined: 24-December 11
Member No.: 14.670



QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Apr 14 2014, 02:40 PM) *
Well, they are using more modal stuff in this song compared with other metal bands. I would call this stuff, fusion metal so if you explore our fusion lessons at gmc, you will learn a lot of ideas that are applied here. The first section is in D major scale, and the lead guitarist makes the difference with his phrasing which shows strong improvisation skills, since he moves with the chords using arpeggios, remarking notes like the 7th of each chords and also some 9ths to give the overall solo a very fresh sound. Metal is usually composed using minor tonalities, so the use of major, with the addition of some 7ths and 9ths in the chord progression and soloing give this a very original sound.
There is also one moment where the backing chord is E minor and the played keeps on A note (the fourth), and the effect is a beautiful tension.

Just play this first two chords and you will get the feel: Dmaj7 - Dsus2

In the part that you marked, I think that he is playing B pentatonic minor scale, played using a 3 notes per string shape and skipping strings. The notes of this pentatonic are part of the overall tonality but using just the notes belonging to that penta scale give this a modal sound. The chord sounding at that moment is Em. Experiment with this idea and check this lesson:

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guit...itution-lesson/


thanks man, this helped a lot, i'm still getting used to using 7ths and 9ths in my soloing, it seems really difficult for me to adapt to! but i really wan to start to get used to it.. is there anything you'd suggest? I understand the concept of what they are, but not how to apply it.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cosmin Lupu
post Apr 15 2014, 07:16 AM
Post #6


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 22.808
Joined: 14-June 10
From: Bucharest
Member No.: 10.636



QUOTE (enlo22 @ Apr 14 2014, 10:31 PM) *
thanks man, this helped a lot, i'm still getting used to using 7ths and 9ths in my soloing, it seems really difficult for me to adapt to! but i really wan to start to get used to it.. is there anything you'd suggest? I understand the concept of what they are, but not how to apply it.


Hey bro smile.gif

I will talk a bit about a method that can help your ears get acquainted to any interval smile.gif

Try the following:

- choose a reference note - let's say C
- play every note against C - in a harmonic (simultaneous) or melodic (consecutive) approach
- try to remember the sound that each note has against C
- sing each note while you play it smile.gif
- see which ones sound more or less tensioned
- take EACH chord type you can form having C as a root note (maj,min,sus2,sus4,diminished,augmented) and play each note against each chord type smile.gif

Suddenly your ears will perceive some sounds you had no clue about yet smile.gif This should be one's beginning in learning the relationship between chords and notes.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Darius Wave
post Apr 15 2014, 02:09 PM
Post #7


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 5.257
Joined: 29-November 12
From: Poland
Member No.: 17.069



I think this a sort of metal soloing transformation that became popular because of guitarists who grew parallel on progressive metal and jazz/fusiion.

For example loving playing of Alan Holdsworth same as Tesseract or Dream Theater. Another examples of those are Jakub Żytecki or David Micic.

I ejony this "school of playing" same as You mate smile.gif Very emotional and left behind a lot of abused metal licks we are used to smile.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
enlo22
post Apr 15 2014, 02:49 PM
Post #8


Learning Guitar Hero
*

Group: Members
Posts: 416
Joined: 24-December 11
Member No.: 14.670



QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Apr 15 2014, 06:16 AM) *
Hey bro smile.gif

I will talk a bit about a method that can help your ears get acquainted to any interval smile.gif

Try the following:

- choose a reference note - let's say C
- play every note against C - in a harmonic (simultaneous) or melodic (consecutive) approach
- try to remember the sound that each note has against C
- sing each note while you play it smile.gif
- see which ones sound more or less tensioned
- take EACH chord type you can form having C as a root note (maj,min,sus2,sus4,diminished,augmented) and play each note against each chord type smile.gif

Suddenly your ears will perceive some sounds you had no clue about yet smile.gif This should be one's beginning in learning the relationship between chords and notes.



hey cosmin! what does play against it mean? and when you said:

"- play every note against C - in a harmonic (simultaneous) or melodic (consecutive) approach"

what do you mean by harmonic or melodic?

QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Apr 15 2014, 01:09 PM) *
I think this a sort of metal soloing transformation that became popular because of guitarists who grew parallel on progressive metal and jazz/fusiion.

For example loving playing of Alan Holdsworth same as Tesseract or Dream Theater. Another examples of those are Jakub Żytecki or David Micic.

I ejony this "school of playing" same as You mate smile.gif Very emotional and left behind a lot of abused metal licks we are used to smile.gif



yeah darius, I just discovered this video and thought it was cool, i'd lke to take certain aspects of thisand use it on my own


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Gabriel Leopardi
post Apr 15 2014, 03:09 PM
Post #9


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 28.418
Joined: 3-March 07
From: Argentina
Member No.: 1.289



QUOTE (enlo22 @ Apr 15 2014, 10:49 AM) *
hey cosmin! what does play against it mean? and when you said:

"- play every note against C - in a harmonic (simultaneous) or melodic (consecutive) approach"

what do you mean by harmonic or melodic?



By "against" I think that he means that you record the chord or note and play over it.

I recommend you to give a try to this lessons:

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...showtopic=48915


--------------------
My lessons

Do you need a Guitar Plan?
Join Gab's Army

Check my band:Cirse
Check my soundcloud:Soundcloud

Please subscribe to my:Youtube Channel
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Darius Wave
post Apr 15 2014, 03:45 PM
Post #10


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 5.257
Joined: 29-November 12
From: Poland
Member No.: 17.069



Many of those solos are not related to jazz at all. It more about the way You lead Your melody, how Your articulate and how You use the rhythm smile.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
klasaine
post Apr 15 2014, 04:08 PM
Post #11


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.738
Joined: 30-December 12
From: Los Angeles, CA
Member No.: 17.304



I like that!

Everything he's playing is in the D major scale: D E F# G A B C#.
A lot of the melody is even simpler - D maj pentatonic: D E F# A B. Or, B minor penta as Gab said. *He hits C# a lot so that takes it out of the pure penta.
He avoids the G natural until about 2:35 (break in the main harmony). *The 4th, G can be tough to negotiate when your key is mostly a major, major 7th, major 9th or add 9 type sound.

His technique is great and his sense of melody and 'time' is really nice too.
He ends the tune on a Bm chord (relative minor of D major).

The major scale is awesome when you know how to use it ... ask Mozart.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Apr 15 2014, 04:22 PM


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Darius Wave
post Apr 16 2014, 08:34 AM
Post #12


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 5.257
Joined: 29-November 12
From: Poland
Member No.: 17.069



So Ken has just confirmed. No need to know "tons of weird scales".

Tip.
If you listen to this kind of music a lot, You'll that after some time it will affect the way You build Your own melodies. Try to find patterns (repeatable behaviors). Even some advanced jazz solos have some of those wink.gif

This will help You to get where You want to smile.gif



This post has been edited by Darius Wave: Apr 16 2014, 10:18 AM


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
klasaine
post Apr 16 2014, 08:46 AM
Post #13


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.738
Joined: 30-December 12
From: Los Angeles, CA
Member No.: 17.304



QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Apr 16 2014, 12:34 AM) *
So Ken has just confirmed. No need to know "tons of weird scales".

Try to find patterns (repeatable behaviors). Even some advanced jazz solos have some of those wink.gif


Yeah, in this particular case the 'collection of notes' is simple but that doesn't negate how well he plays them and how creative he is with the collection.

*Jazz uses tons of 'patterns' and sequences, lots of major scales and lots of pentatonic scales (and patterns). They're just used in very different ways from the way most rockers (even metal and prog guys) use them. But that's another topic for another thread and there's a bunch of good lessons from some great instructors here on jazz and fusion.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cosmin Lupu
post Apr 16 2014, 02:26 PM
Post #14


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 22.808
Joined: 14-June 10
From: Bucharest
Member No.: 10.636



Hey Marco smile.gif By playing against - I mean, playing C and in the same time another note - harmonic, means two or more notes played in the same time and melodic means two or more notes played one after the other smile.gif You can see them as vertical structures when you think about harmonic - think about how notes are structured in a chord on the guitar - they are being played all at once and they are stacked one over the other and you can see them as horizontal structures when you think about a single note line like a scale sequence or an arpeggio smile.gif The notes are being played one after the other - what do you think? smile.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Fast ReplyReply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 23rd March 2017 - 01:23 AM