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[Saoirse O'Shea]

In here, the cash from broadcasting and TV appearances goes in two major organizations The composer's union and the CREDIDAM - I have no clue what the letters stand for. These two, send the money to each artist's account. It's always a game of chance... some get about 30000 bucks at once even if they hadn't had so much activity and some get almost jack even if they had a lot of activity. The next year, it's viceversa and so on

It can take a PRS a while to get the aggregated money and the info and then distribute it .

I think CREDIDAM is an abbreviation of Centrul Roman pentru Administrarea Drepturilor Artistilor Interpreti . Here's their website - http://www.credidam.ro/

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[RichardK]

In here, the cash from broadcasting and TV appearances goes in two major organizations The composer's union and the CREDIDAM - I have no clue what the letters stand for. These two, send the money to each artist's account. It's always a game of chance... some get about 30000 bucks at once even if they hadn't had so much activity and some get almost jack even if they had a lot of activity. The next year, it's viceversa and so on

In the Netherlands, there´s the BUMA, who actively look after the copyright of songs, for radio, tv and even in bars or clubs. From what I hear, they distribute everything honestly.

And I agree with the rest of you that it´s such a shame that so many skilled producers and engineers are out of work. But we´re getting a little off topic here . What I was trying to get across, is that nowadays, there´s a whole lot more you can do yourself. As for capital (dollah dollah bill y´all). at least in the Netherlands, there´s grants, subsidies and even businesses who front money.

So, if you really want to make a living out of being a musician, don´t you owe it to yourself to figure out how you can do things on your own? A guy I know, Thomas Azier, does everything by himself except the distribution, and he´s getting pretty successful in Europe.

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[Cosmin Lupu]

It can take a PRS a while to get the aggregated money and the info and then distribute it .

I think CREDIDAM is an abbreviation of Centrul Roman pentru Administrarea Drepturilor Artistilor Interpreti . Here's their website - http://www.credidam.ro/

Thanks Tony - I knew the website, but that abbreviation always slips my mind Well, you may have a point there - but the calculation method is actually something that eludes me I was wondering how can an artist know how his revenues are calculated?

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[klasaine]

Thanks Tony - I knew the website, but that abbreviation always slips my mind Well, you may have a point there - but the calculation method is actually something that eludes me I was wondering how can an artist know how his revenues are calculated?

That's what an accountant and entertainment lawyer are for.
And when you get to the point where you 'think' you should be earning more than you are, then you need to employ both (some actually do both).
Nobody is gonna pay you if they think you aren't looking.

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This post has been edited by klasaine: Apr 22 2014, 05:26 PM

[Saoirse O'Shea]

If you mean the broadcast royalties Cosmin - in the UK for radio it's based in part on the Rajar figures. So what a station pays depends on reach, audience, demographics etc. That is then factored by the type program and when it's aired. The station is meant to supply an itemised breakdown of their playlist for the given period and that with the Rajar etc allow the royalties to be calculated. Many bigger stations use playout systems that automatically collect the ISRC to compile the playlists for the PRS. No ISRC may at best mean no payment and can at worst mean that the station may not want to include your stuff. The payment is aggregated by the station and that is then broken down at the PRS and sent to the label . The label is then supposed to divide it up appropriately.

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[Cosmin Lupu]

If you mean the broadcast royalties Cosmin - in the UK for radio it's based in part on the Rajar figures. So what a station pays depends on reach, audience, demographics etc. That is then factored by the type program and when it's aired. The station is meant to supply an itemised breakdown of their playlist for the given period and that with the Rajar etc allow the royalties to be calculated. Many bigger stations use playout systems that automatically collect the ISRC to compile the playlists for the PRS. No ISRC may at best mean no payment and can at worst mean that the station may not want to include your stuff. The payment is aggregated by the station and that is then broken down at the PRS and sent to the label . The label is then supposed to divide it up appropriately.

Kind of like it works in our country, but the revenues are sent directly to the artist and not at a label out of what I know. Hiring a lawyer and an accountant - it sounds like the professional way to do it, but if I come to think of the artists in here, they usually use the money they earn from CREDIDAM to pay off debts accumulated in between the pays It's sad, but, this is how it goes. Artists are not people that know how to deal with expenses and they don't want to learn anything that can help them live a more balanced life. Not everyone is like this but the majority is.

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[RichardK]

Kind of like it works in our country, but the revenues are sent directly to the artist and not at a label out of what I know. Hiring a lawyer and an accountant - it sounds like the professional way to do it, but if I come to think of the artists in here, they usually use the money they earn from CREDIDAM to pay off debts accumulated in between the pays It's sad, but, this is how it goes. Artists are not people that know how to deal with expenses and they don't want to learn anything that can help them live a more balanced life. Not everyone is like this but the majority is.

I think it's interesting we still have the idea in our heads that, in general, a musician or artist is still seen as the creative type and not as a business savvy type. It could be true, but I think a lot of people in the business perpetuate that stereotype to earn money. I think in a lot of ways, musicians can nowadays cut out the middle man. Except for accounting, you can leave that bureaucratic hell hole for the accountants .

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[Todd Simpson]

For folks trying to create revenue streams from music, it's important to try to draw from as many sources as possible.

1.)Merch (any merch, you can start with something like cafepress.com which requires no initial money. You don't make much per item, but you can start selling all types of merchandise WITHOUT investment )

2.)Getting your music in iTunes/Spofity (wads of resources on this that I've posted endlessly, but this revenue is a very thin trickle)

3.)Licensing (selling/renting your music to be used for adverts or backgrounds, tv indie films, you can join one of billions of stock music sites, or agencies, bit too much for a point list)

4.)Getting listed with performing rights organizations.

Just a few and just a pinch of an idea on each. In short, you gotta put a lot of lines in the water and catch a lot of small fish. At least until you can "breakthrough"/"cross over" etc. Assuming of course that's the goal

For some folks, (Cannibal Corpse comes to mind) they don't ever plan on making a living from music. They all have day jobs. They play HUGE festivals all summer then go back to their jobs. Also FENRIZ (of DARKTHRONE credited with practically inventing Black Metal) STILL WORKS AT THE POST OFFICE!!! No joke.

Some folks have managed to make a living via other means in addition to music (OLA ENGLUND) comes to mind. He was working in an office up until pretty recently. His youtube channel is the source for pretty much all of his other success so don't underestimate the power of youtube

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[Cosmin Lupu]

Very good advice from Todd - but to offer a little glimpse of what the Romanian scene looks like:

- full time artists - 'We are too good to do something else as well! Everything should come to us' They literally starve when there are no gigs. I have a lot of friends living with this attitude and suffering for every bit of it.
- full time artists performing commercial music - they are barely artists as they are more entertainers than singers (because it's mainly singers) - they earn A LOT of money
- artist/ entreprenours - people like me and a very few other friends, that are trying to understand the means to get as much out of music as possible, but still have other income sources, such as small businesses, because they wish to be the masters of their own time, in order to be able to juggle with things as they see fit.
- people that have a day job and also a band - the majority doesn't try to learn too much, they are happy with the way things are and that's that for them.

These are pretty much the categories which you will meet in here - the biggest segment isn't trying to improve, that's the worse part... Education is the biggest fault here, because people literally refuse to search for opportunities. They just shrug and ask... what can I do?

If they would read Todd's suggestions they would not raise a finger to do something unfortunately... We have so much to learn..

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This post has been edited by Cosmin Lupu: Apr 25 2014, 01:33 PM

[klasaine]

It's not that much different anywhere else.

I would say the biggest advantage we have in the states are the 'secondary' markets. The potential places that your music can get used and no one even thinks about stealing it from you - TV, Film, public works projects, video games, sporting events, museum events/usage, in store play, in flight promotion (ex: short film about _____ town's convention center before the plane lands), etc.
Todd's list, numbers 3 and 4 refer and apply to this.

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[Cosmin Lupu]

It's not that much different anywhere else.

I would say the biggest advantage we have in the states are the 'secondary' markets. The potential places that your music can get used and no one even thinks about stealing it from you - TV, Film, public works projects, video games, sporting events, museum events/usage, in store play, in flight promotion (ex: short film about _____ town's convention center before the plane lands), etc.
Todd's list, numbers 3 and 4 refer and apply to this.

We also have that here, but as I said - people prefer whining rather than sitting down a bit and analyzing the situation:

- I am not Metallica or Whitney Houston
- What can I do as an artist that respects him/herself in order to make a living out of my craft or derivatives in the world I exist in?

In fewer words - adapting - a hell of a hard issue I will always keep this Darwin quote in mind:

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[Todd Simpson]

The DARWIN quote is perfect It really nails the answer. You gotta adapt. The "biz" (like pretty much every biz) is a moving target.

If folks in Romania, America, or wherever don't wanna progress/learn, that's on them, such is life eh? The good news is it makes a pinch more room for everyone else

We also have that here, but as I said - people prefer whining rather than sitting down a bit and analyzing the situation:

- I am not Metallica or Whitney Houston
- What can I do as an artist that respects him/herself in order to make a living out of my craft or derivatives in the world I exist in?

In fewer words - adapting - a hell of a hard issue I will always keep this Darwin quote in mind:

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[Cosmin Lupu]

True man, true, but when some of those folks are your friends or some even play with you, it's a tad more difficult to go over things You know what I am saying..right?

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[Todd Simpson]

Very true!! If you are the only one on the team pulling toward the goal, it's just awful. Getting everyone on the same page can be really tough!

True man, true, but when some of those folks are your friends or some even play with you, it's a tad more difficult to go over things You know what I am saying..right?

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[klasaine]

Yeah, some things have never changed ... regardless of technology

@Cosmin ... do you guys (Days of Confusion) book your own shows/events?
Do venues in Romania even let you do that?

One thing that we do here in the states, or at least in the bigger cities, is basically rent out a venue - book bands/speakers/artists (whatever) - call up a food truck and see if they'll come out - see what's the reality of selling alcohol - set a price and get all the bands to do at least do FB/Twitter posting. *Whoever actually organizes the event does most of the media. Most clubs here won't even charge that much for the night especially if they get to open their bar and keep all the liquor profits.
Bands here have also been fairly successful getting product sponsors to do a 'one time' deal. For example: set up a show with 3 bands and ask Jack Daniels if they'd like to in some way maybe 'help' sponsor one concert (or not - they can just have a presence and give away or sell booze and t-shirts). That could be a good way for them to actually see how you draw - ?

I don't know ... just thinking.

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This post has been edited by klasaine: Apr 29 2014, 12:02 AM

[Cosmin Lupu]

Yeah, some things have never changed ... regardless of technology

@Cosmin ... do you guys (Days of Confusion) book your own shows/events?
Do venues in Romania even let you do that?

One thing that we do here in the states, or at least in the bigger cities, is basically rent out a venue - book bands/speakers/artists (whatever) - call up a food truck and see if they'll come out - see what's the reality of selling alcohol - set a price and get all the bands to do at least do FB/Twitter posting. *Whoever actually organizes the event does most of the media. Most clubs here won't even charge that much for the night especially if they get to open their bar and keep all the liquor profits.
Bands here have also been fairly successful getting product sponsors to do a 'one time' deal. For example: set up a show with 3 bands and ask Jack Daniels if they'd like to in some way maybe 'help' sponsor one concert (or not - they can just have a presence and give away or sell booze and t-shirts). That could be a good way for them to actually see how you draw - ?

I don't know ... just thinking.

Yes and no - each of us knows a lot of people - organizers, managers and so on and we also have PR that acts as a manager these days - she also has a lot of contacts and helps out a lot.

These are very good suggestions indeed - the thing here, is that Jack is an expensive drink and folks usually complain about having to pay 5-6 bucks as an entrance fee for a gig.. so unfortunately, the idea is good but the people are uneducated They will try to get ANYTHING for free - hey get me in for free, hey I wanna have a drink on the house, hey this, hey that! You know the drill

That's why it's pretty difficult to get in a good relationship with a brand these days in my country. Jack for instance, is associated with artists that barely have some rock n roll in their music - just a slight hint, otherwise cheesy pop stuff, but the people listening to that, have money and drink Jack - there you go

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This post has been edited by Cosmin Lupu: Apr 29 2014, 08:30 AM

[klasaine]

in my country. Jack for instance, is associated with artists that barely have some rock n roll in their music - just a slight hint, otherwise cheesy pop stuff, but the people listening to that, have money and drink Jack - there you go

Believe me I understand that very well.
I'll be 52 years old this year. My 'demographic' will spend some money when they go out.
Well, look at it this way ... you have something to look forward to

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[Cosmin Lupu]

Believe me I understand that very well.
I'll be 52 years old this year. My 'demographic' will spend some money when they go out.
Well, look at it this way ... you have something to look forward to

So, in your acceptance, I should be looking forward to getting old, eh? Well, I'd rather stay strong and agile and work harder Thank you

I am currently on the hunt for companies which believe in young blood - there MUST be some out there I really can't think that there's NO one - right?

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[Saoirse O'Shea]

So, in your acceptance, I should be looking forward to getting old, eh? ...

Well unless you know something that we all don't you aren't going to get any younger mate

I am currently on the hunt for companies which believe in young blood - there MUST be some out there I really can't think that there's NO one - right?

Perhaps you need to target those brands that position themselves as such. Less JD and maybe more Red Bull or any energy drink; for clothes - more Springfield or Pull and Bear and less Marks & Spencers...

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[klasaine]

Tony beat me to it.
But I'll keep my post.

So, in your acceptance, I should be looking forward to getting old, eh? Well, I'd rather stay strong and agile and work harder Thank you

I am currently on the hunt for companies which believe in young blood - there MUST be some out there I really can't think that there's NO one - right?

Oh I went into middle age kicking and screaming believe me. Alas no amount of strength and agility staves off the actual years. Or - more importantly for a musician - the 'years' that others ascribe to you.

Big (old) companies - like Jack Daniels -are into safety (return on investment). They know that the blues crowd, the jazz crowd, 'classic' rock crowd and even the 'pop' crowd has some money to spend. Jack Daniels doesn't care about rock and roll or youth ... they care about money. That's why (either in this thread or another) I asked you about what else your demographic likes to eat/drink/wear - ?

Of course there's someone out there that's in to 'young' blood. More than likely - it's a younger (like minded) company.

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This post has been edited by klasaine: Apr 30 2014, 05:39 PM