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> Picking Out A Mic For My Live Guitar, You tell me which one to get
SeeJay
post May 3 2014, 10:31 PM
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Buy a fancy guitar . . . . check
Buy a kicking amp . . . . check
Spend too much on boutique pedals . . . . check

What's left to waste my money on? Oh yea, a mic!

Kidding.

But seriously, anyone out there bringing their own mics to gigs?

In the studio I like mellower mics on my amps. Ribbons or Sennheiser 421 are always a good starting point for me. Not a big fan of a 57. (that presence bump is annoying to me and the top end is kinda trashy)

But, we're talking about live here!

I like the shape of the Sennheiser e609 (very discreet).

Anything cool I should check out?

Hmmm. . . .how am I just now discovering the e906! Got a presence switch. Into that.

Thoughts?


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Spock
post May 4 2014, 12:25 AM
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Go for it man - it's a nice mic so it can't be bad, not sure about the back side of it though. Is it directional? You wouldn't want an open grill for you amp I think. I've always used Shure 57s but for vocals an AudioTechnica's version of a 58 - which is the same exact thing but a different top on it.

Just wanting to spend money for music though? Get a Mac and the latest Logic, in 2 more days EZ Drummer 2 comes out - that stuff should give you plenty to spend money on and all well worth it.
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SeeJay
post May 5 2014, 12:19 AM
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Ha, You make it seem like I'm just throwing my money around.

but a new mac does seem nice. . . . . Can I borrow some $$$?

QUOTE (Spock @ May 3 2014, 11:25 PM) *
Go for it man - it's a nice mic so it can't be bad, not sure about the back side of it though. Is it directional? You wouldn't want an open grill for you amp I think. I've always used Shure 57s but for vocals an AudioTechnica's version of a 58 - which is the same exact thing but a different top on it.

Just wanting to spend money for music though? Get a Mac and the latest Logic, in 2 more days EZ Drummer 2 comes out - that stuff should give you plenty to spend money on and all well worth it.



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Darius Wave
post May 5 2014, 02:11 PM
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906 is surely worth trying - espacially because 2 things:

1. It is really close to SM57
2. Built-in filters mightsave Your ear from "boom" and "hashhhhhh"

Personally my favourite mic is Audio-technica ATM650

SM57 and similar have a boost starting around 4kHz, max boost at 5-6 kHz. When You move the mic off axis to loose the harshness, You loose a lot of " yumyyyy" high mids

Audiotechnica ATM650 has a boost starting in high mids so when You move the mic a bit off axis, it really makes You able to reproduce the tone very close to what You hear. It also has more linear response in 400-600 range while SM57 has a cut at this range

At the moment I have all 3 -SM57, E606 (same as 906 but without filters) and ATM650.

Of course It's all about the individual preferences but...for me personally ATM has more juicy mids...unless You play metal it's rather and advantage smile.gif

Here's a litle comparison a made for a friend lately

SM57 vs Audio-Technica ATM650 (sm57 first)

http://www66.zippyshare.com/v/1817393/file.html

This post has been edited by Darius Wave: May 6 2014, 11:09 AM


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SeeJay
post May 5 2014, 06:03 PM
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You're saying a lot of stuff I like! biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

Yea, it's the weird dips and annoying harsh thing that I don't like about 57s. I mean, I know that's what MAKES a 57 what it is and why it's so popular, but it bugs me.

Yea the mids are FAT on that ATM650. I'm into it.

What do you think about the e606? Worth hunting down?

thanks for the input.

QUOTE (Darius Wave @ May 5 2014, 01:11 PM) *
906 is surely worth trying - espacially because 2 things:

1. It is really close to SM57
2. Built-in filters mightsave Your ear from "boom" and "hashhhhhh"

Personally my favourite mic is Audio-technica ATM650

SM57 and similar have a boost starting around 4kHz, max boost at 5-6 kHz. When You move the mic off axis to loose the harshness, You loose a lot of " yumyyyy" high mids

Audiotechnica ATM650 has a boost starting in high mids so when You move the mic a bit off axis, it really makes You able to reproduce the tone very close to what You hear. It also has more linear response in 400-600 range while SM57 has a cut at this range

At the moment I have all free -SM57, E606 (same as 906 but without filters) and ATM650.

Of course It's all about the individual preferences but...for me personally ATM has more juicy mids...unless You play metal it's rather and advantage smile.gif

Here's a litle comparison a made for a friend lately

SM57 vs Audio-Technica ATM650 (sm57 first)

http://www66.zippyshare.com/v/1817393/file.html



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Todd Simpson
post May 5 2014, 06:11 PM
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That mic is awesome smile.gif The 609 is just killer but usually folks will pair it with something beefier and use two mics, though not always smile.gif Pairs nicely with an SM57 or even a 421.

QUOTE (SeeJay @ May 3 2014, 05:31 PM) *
Buy a fancy guitar . . . . check
Buy a kicking amp . . . . check
Spend too much on boutique pedals . . . . check

What's left to waste my money on? Oh yea, a mic!

Kidding.

But seriously, anyone out there bringing their own mics to gigs?

In the studio I like mellower mics on my amps. Ribbons or Sennheiser 421 are always a good starting point for me. Not a big fan of a 57. (that presence bump is annoying to me and the top end is kinda trashy)

But, we're talking about live here!

I like the shape of the Sennheiser e609 (very discreet).

Anything cool I should check out?

Hmmm. . . .how am I just now discovering the e906! Got a presence switch. Into that.

Thoughts?



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Saoirse O'Shea
post May 5 2014, 06:41 PM
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The Shure is used a lot live arguably more because it's rugged than the sound. Quite a few live and recording engineers I know use a passive attenuator in line with the Shure as it helps remove the hash and also helps minimise intermodulation an ringing.


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Todd Simpson
post May 6 2014, 02:50 AM
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Killer tips from TONY per usual!!!

QUOTE (tonymiro @ May 5 2014, 01:41 PM) *
The Shure is used a lot live arguably more because it's rugged than the sound. Quite a few live and recording engineers I know use a passive attenuator in line with the Shure as it helps remove the hash and also helps minimise intermodulation an ringing.


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Darius Wave
post May 6 2014, 11:19 AM
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To be honest I consider selling the Sennheiser - for me the difference between it and SM57 is too small...I could even say that the e606/906 has a less smooth boost of the treble - something like a narrow peak of something around 5 kHz which seems to be annoying for me. Anyway...I would keep 906 for some particular live gigs just because of the filters


As for sm57 vs atm650 there is one more thing I noticed.
Sm57 seems to reach lower than ATM650 which in case of guitar is nothing good for me. Regular bass boost caused by small distance from the cab is already a problem (You have a flat, thin sound on stage, yet it's too boomy on P.A anyway after mic transmision :/) ATM650doesn;t reach that low so it's a bit less annoying. I was suspecting I might not feel this well so I made a spectrum analysis. With guitar recorded on SM57 I've noticed there is something going on even in the 20-30 Hz range....

To be clear I know what proximity effect is and my tests were done with 3 to 10 cm distance from the cab cloth to avoid it


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jstcrsn
post May 6 2014, 12:13 PM
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it also depends on the sound guys mics or if he is any good anyway, if you add a different mic with different feedback and such levels, you can make it more difficult to find problems that arise,stay with the 57
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SeeJay
post May 6 2014, 02:52 PM
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The Sound Guy is a big part of equation for sure. But I wouldn't worry about feedback issues with guitar amp micing.

for vocals, definitely can be an issue.

I'll let you guys know what I end up with.

QUOTE (jstcrsn @ May 6 2014, 11:13 AM) *
it also depends on the sound guys mics or if he is any good anyway, if you add a different mic with different feedback and such levels, you can make it more difficult to find problems that arise,stay with the 57



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Bogdan Radovic
post May 6 2014, 11:46 PM
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I don't think I ever saw this on gigs (at least noticed it):

QUOTE
But seriously, anyone out there bringing their own mics to gigs?


Usually its the singers who bring their mic to the gigs, especially if they are group gigs.
They don't want to share the germs with other vocalists I suppose and also it feels cooler to have something to bring as "gear" smile.gif Man they have it so easy don't they? A mic + a possibly stand and cable and they are set smile.gif

Kidding aside, I always wondered how important are "details" in a typical gig situation.
For example, my drummer would ask me which set to get. The cheap (but proven to be nice) mic set for the drums or some really expensive one. Considering gigs we do, I never felt it could be justified to get the expensive one. I mean - I have a feeling that most of "regular gigs" don't have overall equipment quality enough to bring out the details such as difference between really nice and excellent mics. There is noise from bad electricity, speakers are budget ones or old and beaten. There are hundreds of meters of who know what kind of quality cable. Mixer has pots that crack from the dust in them smile.gif ...having this in mind - can you really hear the "full definition" of the sound to justify great "details gear"?

I would say great amp and guitar, pedals setup do make the difference.
But other, more subtle differences in details between (nice) mics, DI-boxes etc... can we really hear them?

Back on the topic - I somehow never liked the SM57 tone alone in the studio. Often the satisfying tone was got by combining it with some other Mic, like vintage Neumann. I guess having two mics on the cab brings best of the both worlds but you can't really do such complex setup on the gig...


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Darius Wave
post May 7 2014, 10:04 AM
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I think we does. Especially when You go to the opposite corner of the stage and hear Your guitar from keyboard player monitor. And...You're so sorry because of what that player has to listen to tongue.gif I'm rather a type of guy who can sacrifice his tone on stage to have good tone on front speakers but...I'm often disappointed anyway. If You spend a lot of time recording guitars and You know how Your rig sounds with particular mic in particular position then it's nothing bad to request to have it done same way on live gigs.

Of course it mostly refers to big stage because in the small and middle sized clubs it's hard to call it "micing the amp" while 80% of guitar volume in the mix, is the amp itself. Those are not a good conditions to fairly judge the mic and it's set up. Of course It depends on the music style.
I refer to rock.



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Todd Simpson
post May 10 2014, 12:16 AM
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The classic club gig is almost a perfect case for using some sort of modeler and running direct and just simulating the cab. Every audio source on a stage makes it that much harder for the sound guy to make things sound decent in FOH. Sure, a good sound guy can get a good mix, but in my experience with club gigs, the sound folks are usually just checking to see if they level is hot enough and and moving from one band to the next.

Pulling the guitar and bass amps out of the equation and using modelers to run direct to the board allows everyone to get the mix they want on stage in the monitor with less on stage bleed and doesn't interfere with the main front of house mix as much.

However, this assumes of course that folks are willing to give up their amp and stage volume for live use which in many cases just ain't gonna happen smile.gif

Personally I'm really fond of my direct out sound from my 11 Rack. It sounds like a great cabinet (nicer than what I actually own as I"m using the 8x10 svt bass cab in my patches and it has astounding bass response) in a good isolation booth. I"m running direct in to my mixing board/interface and it sounds great. It sounds just as clean as running over USB to the computer. I"m guessing thats why I see so many kempers and axe fx in racks near the soundboard at Gigs here in town. smile.gif

Todd



QUOTE (Darius Wave @ May 7 2014, 05:04 AM) *
I think we does. Especially when You go to the opposite corner of the stage and hear Your guitar from keyboard player monitor. And...You're so sorry because of what that player has to listen to tongue.gif I'm rather a type of guy who can sacrifice his tone on stage to have good tone on front speakers but...I'm often disappointed anyway. If You spend a lot of time recording guitars and You know how Your rig sounds with particular mic in particular position then it's nothing bad to request to have it done same way on live gigs.

Of course it mostly refers to big stage because in the small and middle sized clubs it's hard to call it "micing the amp" while 80% of guitar volume in the mix, is the amp itself. Those are not a good conditions to fairly judge the mic and it's set up. Of course It depends on the music style.
I refer to rock.



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