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> Dcz702's Composition Thread, for Gab's Army
Gabriel Leopardi
post May 17 2014, 03:56 PM
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Hi dcz! Welcome to our thread for creation! In this thread I will help you to improve your compositions, but also try to keep you motivated and inspired. This should be a creativity place so feel free to post music, stories, experiences, photos or whatever you'd like to make it funny and to keep connected.

At first I would like to invite you to post some of your compositions or ideas, and also to tell me what you think your compositions are lacking.

Please also tell me about your influences and musical tastes, what you know of theory and whatever you consider important.

Welcome to Gab's Army! cool.gif


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dcz702
post May 17 2014, 11:05 PM
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awsome, thanks gab
i will start working on this tommorow and have my first post during the weekend biggrin.gif

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Gabriel Leopardi
post May 18 2014, 04:30 PM
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QUOTE (dcz702 @ May 17 2014, 07:05 PM) *
awsome, thanks gab
i will start working on this tommorow and have my first post during the weekend biggrin.gif



Great! I hope to hear from you soon.


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dcz702
post May 20 2014, 08:28 AM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ May 17 2014, 02:56 PM) *
At first I would like to invite you to post some of your compositions or ideas, and also to tell me what you think your compositions are lacking.

Please also tell me about your influences and musical tastes, what you know of theory and whatever you consider important.

Welcome to Gab's Army! cool.gif

ok here we go gab, excited to get started, and my journey into composing! biggrin.gif

my musical tastes are very broad, depends on my mood. i listen to mostly hard rock, some of my favorites would be Rise Against, Thrice, Hot Water Music. these bands are not the shredding guitar players that alot of young guitarists seem to look up to, but i think they are just awsome songwriters, there lyrics are mostly what grabs me, and the hard rocking heavy sounds with really good hooks.
then im also into alot of hardcore like Atreyu, In flames, and KillSwitch Engage, these type of bands with there hard sound and melodic guitars and fast solos grab my intrest and i really like the sound. then i go reggae rock with bands like Soja, and Rebelution, im all over the place when it comes to music. laugh.gif but really grew up on punk rock and like to think of my self as a punk rock dude cool.gif

if i started my own band i would probaly have a sound similar to the newer thrice albums, if i had it my way wink.gif
my knowledge of theory is basic right now as everything ive learned, im having trouble applying. i can build chords from scales and ive been experamenting with things like using the 6th in place of the 5th and things like that in chords. i know my major and minor scales all over the fretboard in any key, and curently going through the proffessors theory board on modes. and i understand chord progrssions and the tonality of each chord in a progression.

what i think im lacking is the knowledge to use chords and rythyms away from typical major and minor chords and power chords.
for instance, rise against uses alot of there rythyms using the 1st and major 3rd and first and minor third power chords and i like this sound. i just cant put it togther in my own music. am i making scence? hope so huh.gif
im lacking in alot but i want to start slow

i did a quik composition tonight, i didnt really have a game plan for this, i just put down a drum beat using logicX with a tad customizing of the drums, then did a chord progression in Emin and started to hear some melodies and recorded it so here you go my friend, please be critical i want to take constuctive critisism and work hard on reaching my goals. biggrin.gif https://soundcloud.com/rockmusic-915/dcz702compostionthread-1-5192014

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Gabriel Leopardi
post May 20 2014, 04:21 PM
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Hi mate! Interesting post. I can say that we have very similar musical taste. I also like a very wide range of style depending on how I feel going from pop to extreme metal, however my heart is around the most powerful rock. I'm also a fan of punk rock since Ramones has been my first love when I was 11. I could add to them Gun's & Roses and Nirvana... yes, I was a teenager during the 90's. biggrin.gif

I'm very into post hardcore bands and I consider Thrice one of the most interesting. Their older stuff is very rich punk metal, and then they started to evolve and I can say that their last album is a masterpiece.

Based on the things that you wrote, I think that we have 3 first goals.

- Use of less common chord progressions and chords.
- Explore new rhythm horizons
- Understand the concepts behind Thrice's newer music.

If we set this 3 goals as our target, we will be slowly making steps to achieve them. Composition is an endless journey, but this journey will be more enjoyable and effective if you have some guides about the road you should take.


Regarding your composition. I think that it has a very good level. Your guitars are arranged with a very good sense of taste. The first part sounds happy, and reminds me to some brit pop bands. It sounds very good as an intro for a song in that style, however is a bit long to be a intro. Then, at 00:50 starts my favorite part, this one sound great, it's darker than the intro.

This contrast between intro (happy) and verse (darker) makes me think that those are two different songs, I don't think that they fit well together unless you use what I called verse as a part C (something different that appears after the second chorus)

In other words, both parts are great, but I think that maybe they are two starting point for different songs... what do you think?

The last part is similar to the intro, and there the contrast is even more notorious.


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dcz702
post May 21 2014, 10:12 AM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ May 20 2014, 03:21 PM) *
Hi mate! Interesting post. I can say that we have very similar musical taste. I also like a very wide range of style depending on how I feel going from pop to extreme metal, however my heart is around the most powerful rock. I'm also a fan of punk rock since Ramones has been my first love when I was 11. I could add to them Gun's & Roses and Nirvana... yes, I was a teenager during the 90's. biggrin.gif

I'm very into post hardcore bands and I consider Thrice one of the most interesting. Their older stuff is very rich punk metal, and then they started to evolve and I can say that their last album is a masterpiece.

Based on the things that you wrote, I think that we have 3 first goals.

- Use of less common chord progressions and chords.
- Explore new rhythm horizons
- Understand the concepts behind Thrice's newer music.

If we set this 3 goals as our target, we will be slowly making steps to achieve them. Composition is an endless journey, but this journey will be more enjoyable and effective if you have some guides about the road you should take.


Regarding your composition. I think that it has a very good level. Your guitars are arranged with a very good sense of taste. The first part sounds happy, and reminds me to some brit pop bands. It sounds very good as an intro for a song in that style, however is a bit long to be a intro. Then, at 00:50 starts my favorite part, this one sound great, it's darker than the intro.

This contrast between intro (happy) and verse (darker) makes me think that those are two different songs, I don't think that they fit well together unless you use what I called verse as a part C (something different that appears after the second chorus)

In other words, both parts are great, but I think that maybe they are two starting point for different songs... what do you think?

The last part is similar to the intro, and there the contrast is even more notorious.

Right on gab. Looks like I came to the right place being that we have similar musical tastes.
I agree on your views with my composition. The intro is a bit happy feeling, then in the middle it takes a turn. I tried to write a melody over a chord progression and really it sounded cool then I wanted to come up with a middle section of the tune and wanted to try something different, meaning something I've never tried before. I like the middle section also, I just kind of stumbled on it when I was playing around and I put it in.
Today I've been fooling around with major and minor thirds, on the 6th, 5th and 4th strings , and started to think that if I'm playing a chord progression, and just for example say its in Amin i-iv-i-VI instead of playing the typical major and minor chords we all learn to start with I could play the thirds I would just need to make sure I'm using major and minor thirds in the right place. For example the first chord (the i chord) of the riff would be the A note on the 6th string 5th fret and the c note on the 5th string 3rd fret, and the VI chord would be F on the 5th string 8th fret and A on the 4th string 7th fret. I been playing with this idea and this seems a logical way to build a chord using only 2 notes and using thirds instead of always using power chords wich are 5ths, I think realizing this I can start incorperating power chords and chords with the 1st and third intervals. am I correct and making scence? I'm going to try to come up with a short riff using this idea in the next couple days.
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Gabriel Leopardi
post May 21 2014, 04:36 PM
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Hi mate, this really makes sense. That's the way to start exploring with new inversions and possibilities and avoid using the most used chord shapes.

This lesson is once again happier, but there is a concept behind the intro and chorus that is related to your idea but incorporates something new. I'm basically combining melody and chords in the same guitar line, and obtaining many different chords with different extensions. Adding melodies to your chord progressions can be another trick to start using uncommon chords.

Check this lesson and analize mostly parts 1, 2, 5, 6, 7 and 8.

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Pop-Punk-Lesson/


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dcz702
post May 22 2014, 03:49 AM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ May 21 2014, 03:36 PM) *
Hi mate, this really makes sense. That's the way to start exploring with new inversions and possibilities and avoid using the most used chord shapes.

This lesson is once again happier, but there is a concept behind the intro and chorus that is related to your idea but incorporates something new. I'm basically combining melody and chords in the same guitar line, and obtaining many different chords with different extensions. Adding melodies to your chord progressions can be another trick to start using uncommon chords.

Check this lesson and analize mostly parts 1, 2, 5, 6, 7 and 8.

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Pop-Punk-Lesson/

thanks gab, on this lesson now, i like the choice of chords used here, i will learn and study and understand the progression used, if you have any explantions, (before i come back here with qeustions)on how you come up with and use these chords let me know.
good lesson and just what im looking for to use differnt chord structures in rock music smile.gif also id like to say that little solo behind the chords(thats not tabed out for the lesson) gives a really cool vibe to the tune,basicaly your using a few notes hitting the chord tones for the changing chords? i have been doing this alot to, and i have learned its a great way to start hearing melodies in your head.

let me know if you have anything to add.

ill be back to this thread in a couple days with my progress

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Gabriel Leopardi
post May 22 2014, 05:17 PM
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Thanks for your words mate. I also composed a solo based on that lesson:

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Pop-Punk-Solo/


That lesson was composed in 4 simple steps:

1. I decided the chord progression that I was going to use.
2. I played the progression while singing a very simple melody. It cold have been a repetitive melody, like a loop.
3. I learnt the melody in my guitar.
4. I incorporated the melody in the higher strings of the chords.

At first you could record the progression and the melody in two guitar lines to se how it would sound, but then you should combine both in one guitar line.

That's the trick, does it make sense?


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dcz702
post May 24 2014, 06:35 AM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ May 22 2014, 04:17 PM) *
Thanks for your words mate. I also composed a solo based on that lesson:

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Pop-Punk-Solo/


That lesson was composed in 4 simple steps:

1. I decided the chord progression that I was going to use.
2. I played the progression while singing a very simple melody. It cold have been a repetitive melody, like a loop.
3. I learnt the melody in my guitar.
4. I incorporated the melody in the higher strings of the chords.

At first you could record the progression and the melody in two guitar lines to se how it would sound, but then you should combine both in one guitar line.

That's the trick, does it make sense?

yes makes scence, im hearing melodies when i play back progression when i record, and im able to get those melodies onto my guitar, simple melodies wink.gif. great solo by the way, on the pop punk solo lesson, ill save that for another day biggrin.gif, maybe next year wink.gif
so ive learned your pop punk lesson, enjoyed it, ill post to rec when i get a chance,
the triads you use at the end are a little trickier than they looked at first, at least to me, spent lot of time getting them clean with the melody in them clear.

Id like to talk about the main progression, the "this is surely a hit progression". I love it! what i got from it is in the key of D major, with a I-V-vi-IV progression your keeping the root note (D) in every chord played. When you play in the key of D major and your on the V chord (A) and you add the Root note of the D major scale what would chord be called? i will remeber that when i play progressions this option of adding that note is available to me, just curious on what to call it.
then when you move a half step down and play the 7th of the Dmajor scale on every chord, gives it this kind of tension (best way i know to describe it) to the sound.
i also noticed that in the progression the chords notes are taken out and replaced with the 5th degree of the Dmajor scale, is this something that can always be done with out sounding out of key? this was a excellent lesson for me to apply replacing notes of a chord and see what it sounds like in a song.
Just unclear what to call these chords when replacing the notes from the parent scale

i dont know if im looking to deep into this, but along with practicing i want to have a clear understanding on how its done to better help me underdstand to compose in this same style.

from what ive gathered now on this one lesson will try this in a different progression, and different keys.

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Gabriel Leopardi
post May 25 2014, 09:48 PM
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Hi mate, that's a very good analysis. This is what I usually do with most of the music that I heard and it keeps me learning and incoporating new ideas for composing. Honestly, most of the time I don't pay attention to the chord names, but it is cool to know how to call them.

I'm not sure about what chords you are meaning but I think that the A that adds D is what it's commonly called Asus4. Sus4 is "Suspended 4th" and means that the 3rd of the chord is replaced by the 4th. In this case I replace C# with D.



Could you please use the Scale Generator to tell me which are the shapes that you mean by this: " when you move a half step down and play the 7th of the Dmajor scale on every chord, gives it this kind of tension (best way i know to describe it) to the sound."

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/scalegenerator/


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dcz702
post May 25 2014, 10:10 PM
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ok will do i tried to use the scale generator had problem trying to post it with the text, ill figure it out when i get home tonight, gonna use remainder of my time today on a lesson wink.gif

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Gabriel Leopardi
post May 25 2014, 10:28 PM
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I marked with red the code that you should paste here:

Attached Image


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dcz702
post May 25 2014, 11:26 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ May 25 2014, 08:48 PM) *
Hi mate, that's a very good analysis. This is what I usually do with most of the music that I heard and it keeps me learning and incoporating new ideas for composing. Honestly, most of the time I don't pay attention to the chord names, but it is cool to know how to call them.

I'm not sure about what chords you are meaning but I think that the A that adds D is what it's commonly called Asus4. Sus4 is "Suspended 4th" and means that the 3rd of the chord is replaced by the 4th. In this case I replace C# with D.



Could you please use the Scale Generator to tell me which are the shapes that you mean by this: " when you move a half step down and play the 7th of the Dmajor scale on every chord, gives it this kind of tension (best way i know to describe it) to the sound."


https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/scalegenerator/


these are the chords i refer to as sounding like adding tension





then going back to the D note gives it that sound i really like

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Gabriel Leopardi
post May 26 2014, 04:33 AM
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QUOTE (dcz702 @ May 25 2014, 07:26 PM) *
these are the chords i refer to as sounding like adding tension





then going back to the D note gives it that sound i really like



Well, I'm basically keeping a repetitive simple melody melody on strrings 3 and 4 while I move the root with the progression. That's how I get different interesting chords. The chords that you are asking there are: Dmaj7, A Major and B7sus2.

This thread will help you to understand how this chords are build: Click HERE

Do you use Guitar Pro?


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dcz702
post May 26 2014, 06:09 AM
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Ok thanks for the explanation. After analyzing the lesson I'm starting to understand how you came up with it.
Seems like borrowing notes from the major scale of the key the song is in while playing the roots of the progression are a good way to come up with alternative chords.
This is somethin I will begin practicing with concentration.

Yes I do use guitar pro.

By the way I'm starting to concentrate more on lessons in the style I'm mostly interested in.
While looking closely at the progressions and rythyms used.
On rise against
And offspring.
And several others mostly to work on solo technique and correct bends and vibrato.

Also when I'm off later this week I'll be trying to apply what I've learned with you pop punk into a short composition.

The BSus2 from what I understand now the sus2 is taken From the 2nd interval of the B Scale the B chord is made from, and it just happens to be the 7th in the key of D. Is sus chords something that can be used in all chords of the progression being used? Or will some chords that I chose to use sus2 clash with the key?

I need to do a refresher on building chords.

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Gabriel Leopardi
post May 26 2014, 03:52 PM
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Excellent analysis mate. That's exactly what I do, and it's a great trick to get an unlimited list of less common chords. As you can see, I first get them by ear, so I choose note combinations that sound good, then if I'm curious I analyze the intervals to know how to call them. If you use guitar pro, you can tab the shape and click the key A in your keyboard. A chord builder table is opened and it usually suggests names for the chord. This can help you to know how to call weird shapes.

The chords can have different names depending on the tonality and context that you play them, that's why guitar pro can suggest many names for the same shape:

Attached Image


About the sus chords. As I said earlier, sus means suspended. It indicates that the 3rd of the chord is replaced by the 2 or 4. This variation can be used for every chord.

How to build 7sus2 chords
How to build 7sus4 chords


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dcz702
post Jun 4 2014, 08:42 AM
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Hi gab,
i havent had much time to spend composing i would like, busy time here in vegas, also im probably not spreading my time out well, between composing and some lessons, spent alot of time on a few lessons this week, that i really want to get down smile.gif

tonight i wanted to play around with chords and recorded a quick thing, kinda going off your pop punk what i learned with adding notes to chords. i didnt really have a idea on a rythym i wanted to use, i just used the drummer in logic and followed it with a cmajor progression.

i was wondering maybe if there would be some kind of drills or tasks or lessons you could have for me to help me expand my chord knowledge, https://soundcloud.com/rockmusic-915/compositionthread2
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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jun 4 2014, 03:04 PM
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Hi mate! This sounds like a good plan for me. Is that audio mix the chord progression that you want to enrich?

What about these lessons?

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/extended-chords-ballad/
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/9th_power_chords/
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/rhythm-gu...guitar-comping/


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dcz702
post Jun 5 2014, 01:10 AM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jun 4 2014, 02:04 PM) *
Hi mate! This sounds like a good plan for me. Is that audio mix the chord progression that you want to enrich?

What about these lessons?

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/extended-chords-ballad/
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/9th_power_chords/
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/rhythm-gu...guitar-comping/

im gonna start on the 9th power chord lesson, thats more my style, thanks biggrin.gif
for the recording i did wasnt really trying to come up with a tune, just playing with chords and trying to make them work. i have been doing exercises like that alot.
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