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> Sadly Yet Another Nutjob Shoots Everyone He Can.
Todd Simpson
post May 25 2014, 07:38 PM
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In yet another very sad instance, a young, well heeled, Californian man, grabbed his gun, 400 rounds of ammo and went around shooting folks. He posted a very nutty vid on youtube, then took off on his spree. He killed himself at the end of the spree. These incidents are deeply troubling and saddening for me and my thoughts are with the victims and their families.

Police interviewed him after seeing some earlier vids from him on youtube where he seemed to be about to snap and do something bad. However, they said he was shy and polite and left it at that. They didn't even check his room where he had his weapons, manifesto and ammunition.

The only thing I can see happening here is an undiagnosed mental illness. His father is a Hollywood Director and his mother is an actress. He drove a late model BMW and was a nice looking guy. Yet somehow he could not connect with ANY women and was still a virgin at 22. I can't imagine what he was saying to girls to get them to turn off but it must have been pretty bad. I was never as good looking as this guy, nor have I ever owned that nice a car, and I'm certainly not that suave with the ladies, but I never had that much trouble hooking up. It's hard to believe that this man was playing with a full deck. Very sad.

http://laist.com/2014/05/24/what_we_know_a...t_rodger_th.php


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TeoWulf
post May 25 2014, 07:55 PM
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It is truly sad. I don't understand how these people don't get their ilness recognized earlier. But I think that american gun laws are seriously contributing to these phenomenons.
Maybe, if (multiple) serious mental checkups would be required to get a gun owner's license, then this guy could have been recognized as a mentally ill person and could have got the necessary treatment. I know, there's that argument that you could still buy guns illegaly, but trust me, it's eytremely hard to get hold of black market weapons in a country where this shit is taken seriously. In better parts of europe, you could only do that if you have the necessary underground connections, etc. Serious criminals can acquire such things, but mental guys who want to shoot at random people? Propably not.
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Spock
post May 25 2014, 08:00 PM
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It is sad and tragic. The criminally insane will always figure out a way to go on a rampage - just like in China recently where a group of lunatics went on a stabbing spree at a bus station. Maybe China should ban knives now.

If just one person had of been there with a concealed weapon, he could have saved many lives. I don't travel without a firearm anymore, you know the old saying, "when danger is seconds from happening, the police are just minutes away".

I read a funny quote somewhere called, "Why I carry a Firearm"

It went on and on, but the last part I remember...

"Because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass-whoopin".

This post has been edited by Spock: May 25 2014, 08:07 PM
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Mudbone
post May 25 2014, 08:33 PM
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One thing that is never mentioned in all of these shootings is the fact that the perpetrators are users of an antidepressant, or some other prescribed mind altering medication. Those medications alter your brain chemistry, which in turn can have drastic effects on your personality. The other danger of these medications is when you come off of them, or if you miss a dose. That is when you truly go apeshit.

These medications are a serious epidemic in the US, but nobody mentions it because of the sway Big Pharma has in government and in the news media.


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klasaine
post May 25 2014, 09:11 PM
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Actually it gets mentioned all the time. I hear about it everyday on the radio news ...
https://www.google.com/search?q=press+about...l=1&tbm=nws

https://www.google.com/search?q=press+about...:en-US:official

Just entries in USA today, the most ubiquitous paper in the country ... https://www.google.com/search?q=TV+news+pre...ial&spell=1

but nobody wants to pay any attention to it because they (patients and doctors and pharma companies) just want their drugs and profits.


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TeoWulf
post May 25 2014, 09:24 PM
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QUOTE (Spock @ May 25 2014, 07:00 PM) *
It is sad and tragic. The criminally insane will always figure out a way to go on a rampage - just like in China recently where a group of lunatics went on a stabbing spree at a bus station. Maybe China should ban knives now.

If just one person had of been there with a concealed weapon, he could have saved many lives. I don't travel without a firearm anymore, you know the old saying, "when danger is seconds from happening, the police are just minutes away".

I read a funny quote somewhere called, "Why I carry a Firearm"

It went on and on, but the last part I remember...

"Because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass-whoopin".


I understand your point of view, but the knife example is wrong. It is quite possible to defend yourself against a knife unarmed, but the same does not apply to guns. Anyway, over here at the other end of the ocean, we're doing fine without carrying any sort of weaponry, and violent crime rates are much lower.
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dcz702
post May 25 2014, 09:32 PM
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so sad, sad.gif , society just seems to be getting worse, the warnings were there and they didnt heed the warnings! deemed him kind and polite? dry.gif days are getting so crazy all over the world that threatening comments need to be treated extremly serioulsy right away no matter what the person says to get out of it at the time.
If the people who interviewed him would have listened to the signs at first and not let him convince them that he was fine the seven people would still be here today, so sad and such a shame, i hope my friends and family never cross people who's heads are all fucked up and wired wrong!
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Mudbone
post May 25 2014, 09:43 PM
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QUOTE (TeoWulf @ May 25 2014, 04:24 PM) *
Anyway, over here at the other end of the ocean, we're doing fine without carrying any sort of weaponry, and violent crime rates are much lower.


That's because you don't have any home-grown freaky Americans over there. Let's send you some of our nutjobs and see how you feel. tongue.gif

QUOTE (klasaine @ May 25 2014, 04:11 PM) *
Actually it gets mentioned all the time. I hear about it everyday on the radio news ...
https://www.google.com/search?q=press+about...l=1&tbm=nws

https://www.google.com/search?q=press+about...:en-US:official

Just entries in USA today, the most ubiquitous paper in the country ... https://www.google.com/search?q=TV+news+pre...ial&spell=1

but nobody wants to pay any attention to it because they (patients and doctors and pharma companies) just want their fucking drugs and profits.


This is mostly prescription painkillers. What you're saying is true, this is reported in the news. What I'm talking about is the ones that actually alter your brain chemistry, such as Zoloft, Welbutrin, etc.


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TeoWulf
post May 25 2014, 10:07 PM
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QUOTE (Mudbone @ May 25 2014, 08:38 PM) *
That's because you don't have any home-grown freaky Americans over there. Let's send you some of our nutjobs and see how you feel. tongue.gif

No, not those, please biggrin.gif

Also, I'm going to be severly unpopular here, but I wouldn't classify that shooter as a thing of evil. He is another victim. The one that's truly guilty is the society around him that failed to recognize his symptoms and take him to the doctor and provided him with all the guns he wanted. Those poor students could still be alive if he had got the necessary treatment, and he could have lead a life with much less frustration.
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jstcrsn
post May 25 2014, 10:14 PM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ May 25 2014, 07:38 PM) *
He drove a late model BMW and was a nice looking guy. Yet somehow he could not connect with ANY women and was still a virgin at 22.

sad, indeed . nut job, probably. First stigma society needs to get rid of is being a virgin at 22 like there was something wrong with him.just by reading your description ,if everyone talked to him like that ,"man 22 and driving a beamer, what;s wrong with you". did society give him that stigma and push him into it? not defending him, just wondering if someone could have been nice to him and helped him out

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gregc1
post May 25 2014, 10:57 PM
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It's a crazy world out there, and sadly not getting better anytime soon. Shootings in America, shooting at Jewish museum in Belgium, religious persecution in Africa, and you could just go on and on. This is all just last week.

With respect to America, our gun laws are at the bottom of the list of issues. Mental health treatment, political correctness and proper parenting (or lack of) are way bigger contributors to our state of society. Not to mention all of the 24 hour news networks that spend days/weeks glamorizing these maniacs. Americans are all about getting their 15 minutes of fame right now and unfortunately this is a way some disturbed people can achieve it.


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Ben Higgins
post May 26 2014, 10:19 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ May 25 2014, 07:38 PM) *
The only thing I can see happening here is an undiagnosed mental illness. His father is a Hollywood Director and his mother is an actress. He drove a late model BMW and was a nice looking guy. Yet somehow he could not connect with ANY women and was still a virgin at 22. I can't imagine what he was saying to girls to get them to turn off but it must have been pretty bad. I was never as good looking as this guy, nor have I ever owned that nice a car, and I'm certainly not that suave with the ladies, but I never had that much trouble hooking up. It's hard to believe that this man was playing with a full deck. Very sad.


Sadly a lot of people who, on the outside, have normal lives and 'good' upbringings are victims of narcissistic parenting. I'd encourage anyone to look it up. It's very interesting reading. As a phenomenon, it's being recognised more by the mental health authorities and people are slowly starting to realise just why people don't grow up quite right, despite not being physically abused or so on..

I don't know anything about the guys parents but they're clearly high achievers and I would bet money that there was an unbelievable amount of pressure for this guy to be 'successful'. Not only that, children of these types of people often learn to devote their life to doing anything just to please their authoritative parents, pushing aside their own natural development and wants and needs. The result is a seriously messed up individual with co-dependency issues, zero self esteem and in many cases, schizophrenia.

But most people don't want to look at psychological issues in the family unit, they'll just blame it on him being a nut-job.

Like I said, I could be off the mark but I really don't think I am.


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Socky42
post May 26 2014, 11:46 AM
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QUOTE (jstcrsn @ May 25 2014, 10:14 PM) *
sad, indeed . nut job, probably. First stigma society needs to get rid of is being a virgin at 22 like there was something wrong with him.just by reading your description ,if everyone talked to him like that ,"man 22 and driving a beamer, what;s wrong with you". did society give him that stigma and push him into it? not defending him, just wondering if someone could have been nice to him and helped him out


QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ May 26 2014, 10:19 AM) *
But most people don't want to look at psychological issues in the family unit, they'll just blame it on him being a nut-job.


I had a quick skim over his leaked manifesto. (I assume it's real, it's over 140 pages long. laugh.gif); From what I saw, he did have a lot of help; therapists, 'social skills counsellors'. Problem is, he didn't want the help and blamed all his 'failure' on everything but himself. There's a lot about him feeling entitled to having sex due to just owning a nice car and having a lot of money; a very distorted view of what it means to 'be a man'.

I don't think either of you are off the mark by much, but the combination of his 'issues' that led to this; mental illness, parents etc. make it hard to pin the shooting on just one thing.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/225960813/Elliot...World-manifesto



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Ben Higgins
post May 26 2014, 01:26 PM
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QUOTE (Socky42 @ May 26 2014, 11:46 AM) *
I had a quick skim over his leaked manifesto. (I assume it's real, it's over 140 pages long. laugh.gif); From what I saw, he did have a lot of help; therapists, 'social skills counsellors'. Problem is, he didn't want the help and blamed all his 'failure' on everything but himself. There's a lot about him feeling entitled to having sex due to just owning a nice car and having a lot of money; a very distorted view of what it means to 'be a man'.

I don't think either of you are off the mark by much, but the combination of his 'issues' that led to this; mental illness, parents etc. make it hard to pin the shooting on just one thing.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/225960813/Elliot...World-manifesto


Interesting. I didn't read it. Definitely sounds like he'd developed a narcissistic way of dealing with the world, which can either be fostered by abusive or over-giving parents. I could have initially been way-off about the parents. Maybe they tried to overcompensate too much. Read at surface value it may seem like an idyllic, fairytale life but I see a lot of upheaval, lack of structure, lack of security and his hatred of women had to start somewhere. I'm just interested in psychology because it's something that is part of us every day, after all.

All the shooters have reasons why they do what they do, it's never simple as we no doubt agree. But yes, the lack of taking responsibility for his life is present and correct, like most perpetrators of deliberate violent crimes.


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Spock
post May 26 2014, 01:50 PM
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I checked out his You-Tube rantings this morning. To me he came across as the epitome of selfish, materialism which is rampant in the youth-Hollywood culture. He didn't see himself as a failure but blamed it the woman that didn't accept him, all the time saying "I'm good looking" and "I got it going on" and "I got a nice car" and calling guys with girlfriends fat ugly slobs.

There was a definite mental illness going on, but I think he was the narcissist and there is no curing that. He was a spoiled rich kid that felt the world owed him something because of how he looked and how much he spent on sunglasses and driving a BMW (none of which he could have afforded without his parents money). He reminded me of King Joffrey in Game of Thrones. I guarantee that regardless of having a girlfriend, that would not have solved his issues. Ultimately he hated people for what they had and what he expected he deserved.

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Todd Simpson
post May 27 2014, 06:46 PM
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That's what I came away with as well. He seemed spoiled and entitled and bitter. So Despite everyone's best efforts to help him, he blames everyone but himself and starts shooting people. I don't have much sympathy for this guy. He. Seems very lucid and aware of what he's doing. Now dozens of families lives are impacted and several of their children are dead, for no reason.

QUOTE (Spock @ May 26 2014, 08:50 AM) *
I checked out his You-Tube rantings this morning. To me he came across as the epitome of selfish, materialism which is rampant in the youth-Hollywood culture. He didn't see himself as a failure but blamed it the woman that didn't accept him, all the time saying "I'm good looking" and "I got it going on" and "I got a nice car" and calling guys with girlfriends fat ugly slobs.

There was a definite mental illness going on, but I think he was the narcissist and there is no curing that. He was a spoiled rich kid that felt the world owed him something because of how he looked and how much he spent on sunglasses and driving a BMW (none of which he could have afforded without his parents money). He reminded me of King Joffrey in Game of Thrones. I guarantee that regardless of having a girlfriend, that would not have solved his issues. Ultimately he hated people for what they had and what he expected he deserved.


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Azzaboi
post May 27 2014, 09:19 PM
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My heart goes out to all that where affected... but also him as well.

It's quite clear the state of mind he was in, completely isolated from life and struggling to fit in, the wrong way till snapping point. Layer on layer of build up hate, bitterness and desperation. Looking at others like their lives are perfect and wanting perfection too. Not knowing how to change. He was going to the golf club to originally seek a peaceful escape, but that doesn't really face the real issue, got him thinking too much dwelling on the problem, rather than a positive solution and just isolated him more away from others.

Antisocial lifestyle can easily lead to depression, which forces you more to be anti-social with rejection and beliefs of 'what-if'. It can become a pit of self-destruction. He did need to face the problem himself, maybe even just a single friend or social means could of prevented it all, if he stopped the self-pity and actually tried something positive. It's sad how deep people can bury themselves away from the world.

The words he uses and repeats is most likely...

Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) - Calling himself repeatly "fabulous", "magnificent", "gorgeous", and everyone else is a jerk. Preoccupied with personal adequacy, power, prestige and vanity, mentally unable to see the destructive damage they are causing to themselves and to others in the process.


R.I.P.



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Todd Simpson
post May 27 2014, 09:31 PM
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Everyone goes through feelings of isolation/loneliness/sadness/frustration etc. I don't think it in any way justifies or serves as a rational for grabbing a gun and shooting innocent people. I don't think there's any reason for someone to take their pain out on other people. That's when they cross the line afaic and become a murdering monster.

Whatever personal demons he was fighting, or anyone for that matter, it's possible to be a man and hold your own water. Snapping and taking it out on the world is just inexcusable imho. Wads of folks have problems of enormous magnitude. They manage to keep from becoming a homicidal maniac most of the time.

I"ve dealt with enormous anger and frustration directed at nobody as a result of my Mother cancer diagnosis and her subsequent loss of the use of her legs, as well as my own frustration over my chronic spine pain from two broken vertibrae. But I didn't grab a firearm and go shoot up the hospital.

This guy is simply beneath contempt imho. Such cowardice and carelessness towards the lives of everyone around him. Sad.


QUOTE (Azzaboi @ May 27 2014, 04:19 PM) *
My heart goes out to all that where affected... but also him as well.

It's quite clear, the state of mind he was in, completely isolated from life and struggling to fit in, the wrong way till snapping point. Layer on layer of build up hate, bitterness and desperation. Looking at others like their lives are perfect and wanting perfection too. Not knowing how to change. He was going to the golf club to originally seek a peaceful escape, but that doesn't really face the real issue, got him thinking too much dwelling on the problem, rather than a positive solution and just isolated him more away from others.

Antisocial lifestyle can easily lead to depression, which forces you more to be anti-social with rejection and beliefs of 'what-if'. It can become a pit of self-destruction. He did need to face the problem himself, maybe even just a single friend or social means could of prevented it all, if he stopped the self-pity and actually tried something positive. It's sad how deep people can bury themselves away from the world.


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Azzaboi
post May 27 2014, 09:40 PM
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I don't think anything justifies grabbing up a gun... in NZ we don't even have legal firearms.

There's too much idea of something like that being the quick escape, show the world how I feel, etc... rather than manning up to the fact it's your own problem to face. It's a spare of the moment decision, from which there's no coming back from.

If anything, I actually blame the easy access to that weapon. However, that still wouldn't of solve the root cause, but might of saved a few lives.


QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ May 28 2014, 08:31 AM) *
Everyone goes through feelings of isolation/loneliness/sadness/frustration etc. I don't think it in any way justifies or serves as a rational for grabbing a gun and shooting innocent people. I don't think there's any reason for someone to take their pain out on other people. That's when they cross the line afaic and become a murdering monster.

Whatever personal demons he was fighting, or anyone for that matter, it's possible to be a man and hold your own water. Snapping and taking it out on the world is just inexcusable imho. Wads of folks have problems of enormous magnitude. They manage to keep from becoming a homicidal maniac most of the time.

I"ve dealt with enormous anger and frustration directed at nobody as a result of my Mother cancer diagnosis and her subsequent loss of the use of her legs, as well as my own frustration over my chronic spine pain from two broken vertibrae. But I didn't grab a firearm and go shoot up the hospital.

This guy is simply beneath contempt imho. Such cowardice and carelessness towards the lives of everyone around him. Sad.

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Todd Simpson
post May 27 2014, 09:46 PM
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Well said smile.gif A pinch more manning up in the face of adversity, and a bit less, going rambo, would have been very positive for our shooter IMHO.

QUOTE (Azzaboi @ May 27 2014, 04:40 PM) *
I don't think anything justifies grabbing up a gun... in NZ we don't even have legal firearms.

There's too much idea of something like that being the quick escape, show the world how I feel, etc... rather than manning up to the fact it's your own problem to face. It's a spare of the moment decision, from which there's no coming back from.

If anything, I actually blame the easy access to that weapon. However, that still wouldn't of solve the root cause, but might of saved a few lives.


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