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> Fast Downstroke Picking And Strumming, elbow locks up, i need to learn to relax
dcz702
post May 25 2014, 09:25 PM
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hey fellas
im on a couple of lessons that require fast downstroke picking only, one lesson in particular is gabs rise against lesson https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Rise-A...-Hardcore-Punk/
starting at 7 seconds, i can play this and the entire lesson very close to gab, but at alternate picking where he uses down only, im trying to get the downstroke only down, to create that driving even sound that down only creates.

i try to relax my arm and wrist, and try to maintain a smooth wrists movement but my elbow keeps tensing and locking up.
i know,i know just practice slow and increase the tempo slowly, wich im doing, ive got it down and 90 bpm just fine, and i think perfect with alternate picking, at full tempo

any advice on keeping the beat and getting this up to speed without locking up?
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jstcrsn
post May 26 2014, 12:15 AM
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QUOTE (dcz702 @ May 25 2014, 09:25 PM) *
hey fellas
im on a couple of lessons that require fast downstroke picking only, one lesson in particular is gabs rise against lesson https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Rise-A...-Hardcore-Punk/
starting at 7 seconds, i can play this and the entire lesson very close to gab, but at alternate picking where he uses down only, im trying to get the downstroke only down, to create that driving even sound that down only creates.

i try to relax my arm and wrist, and try to maintain a smooth wrists movement but my elbow keeps tensing and locking up.
i know,i know just practice slow and increase the tempo slowly, wich im doing, ive got it down and 90 bpm just fine, and i think perfect with alternate picking, at full tempo

any advice on keeping the beat and getting this up to speed without locking up?

also practicing slow with minimal and efficient movement.excuse me, I think I might have to go have a movement huh.gif
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Kristofer Dahl
post May 26 2014, 08:24 AM
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QUOTE (dcz702 @ May 25 2014, 10:25 PM) *
i try to relax my arm and wrist, and try to maintain a smooth wrists movement but my elbow keeps tensing and locking up.
i know,i know just practice slow and increase the tempo slowly, wich im doing, ive got it down and 90 bpm just fine, and i think perfect with alternate picking, at full tempo


It sounds like you have got the essentials down.

I have always believed that the harder the picking motion the better (tone wise) - but now I have found you get can come a very long way with a light touch as well. So I exclusively practice downstrokes with super-ulta-extreme ( wink.gif ) relaxed technique.

Because once you master the desired tempo with a relaxed technique, you can easily experiment and add more picking power, however the opposite is not true.

Another tip is that in order to practice fast downstrokes, you don't necessarily need to play riffs only. You could also practice playing some pentatonic lines with downstrokes-only to get that SRV:ish type of sound / attack (or turn up the gain and get some cool pentatonic metal licks going). For me this makes practicing more interesting, and leads to more focused and longer practicing sessions = faster results!


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Cosmin Lupu
post May 26 2014, 10:46 AM
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Hey bro - as you said, slow practice and steady speed increasing, but there's also another thing - becoming conscious of the moment in which you tense up and slowly relaxing your hand WITHOUT stopping playing smile.gif That can certainly be achieved at a slow tempo and then translated as a sensation to higher speeds. I have encountered the same issue when playing the ending riff of Pantera's 'Walk' - I just learned to detense whenever the feeling creeps in smile.gif


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Ben Higgins
post May 26 2014, 03:24 PM
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You're on the right track already.

One other thing that really helps is to do shorter bursts at either the desired tempo or closer to it. It's a good way of getting your down stroke speed up by 'showing it what it's got to do' but only do it for a few seconds or so.

I made a down stroke lesson which focuses on this approach

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Stamin...-2-Downpicking/

I find it's easier to lock in and get motoring when you're playing along with a full band or recording. I used to teach myself Metallica songs by ear and that really helped my down picking stamina. Even if I couldn't get through the whole song I'd still get a good down picking workout with it. Just don't go overkill and eventually you'll find that you 'last longer' ! biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Ben Higgins: May 26 2014, 03:26 PM


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Gabriel Leopardi
post May 26 2014, 04:35 PM
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Hi mate, the only downstrokes technique can be demanding when we talk about fast tempos. I think that there are two important things to do if you want to master this, and this two things must be combined:

- Practice
- Keep your right hand relaxed

Start slowly, with metronome, pay attention to your right hand motion, try to make it effective and be inspired by the masters:



This song is the best exercise ever for downpicking:

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Metall...ter-Of-Puppets/


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dcz702
post May 26 2014, 09:16 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ May 26 2014, 09:46 AM) *
becoming conscious of the moment in which you tense up and slowly relaxing your hand WITHOUT stopping playingI just learned to detense whenever the feeling creeps in smile.gif

great advice cosmin thanks, ive tried to learn to be conscious of how i may be tensing up i different situations, and correct it on the fly.

QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ May 26 2014, 07:24 AM) *
It sounds like you have got the essentials down.

I have always believed that the harder the picking motion the better (tone wise) - but now I have found you get can come a very long way with a light touch as well. So I exclusively practice downstrokes with super-ulta-extreme ( wink.gif ) relaxed technique.

Because once you master the desired tempo with a relaxed technique, you can easily experiment and add more picking power, however the opposite is not true.

great tip! read your suggestions picked up my guitar and gave the strings a lighter touch on downpicking, and i dont seems to tense up as much. smile.gif ill keep practicing and as i get more comfortable, ill increase my attack

QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ May 26 2014, 02:24 PM) *
One other thing that really helps is to do shorter bursts at either the desired tempo or closer to it. It's a good way of getting your down stroke speed up by 'showing it what it's got to do' but only do it for a few seconds or so.

I made a down stroke lesson which focuses on this approach

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Stamin...-2-Downpicking/

thanks for this ben, i bookmarked it and am working on it, i really want this important technique down smile.gif

QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ May 26 2014, 03:35 PM) *
Hi mate, the only downstrokes technique can be demanding when we talk about fast tempos. I think that there are two important things to do if you want to master this, and this two things must be combined:

- Practice
- Keep your right hand relaxed

Start slowly, with metronome, pay attention to your right hand motion, try to make it effective and be inspired by the masters:



This song is the best exercise ever for downpicking:

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Metall...ter-Of-Puppets/

kick ass video! he is a downpicking master! some of those riffs were super fast, motivating video thanks gab,
bookmarked the lesson, ill spend some time on ben's before i try to tackle it
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Todd Simpson
post May 27 2014, 03:29 AM
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Some great tips so far smile.gif "Tensing" is an almost instinctual response. One way to fight it is with Isolation Drills. Take your left hand out of the equation for a bit and just leave the strings open. Pick the sequence as needed slowly and work up. Once you get the right hand trained a bit to play and stay loose, add the left hand back in smile.gif

It's worked for me smile.gif
Todd

QUOTE (dcz702 @ May 26 2014, 04:16 PM) *
great advice cosmin thanks, ive tried to learn to be conscious of how i may be tensing up i different situations, and correct it on the fly.


great tip! read your suggestions picked up my guitar and gave the strings a lighter touch on downpicking, and i dont seems to tense up as much. smile.gif ill keep practicing and as i get more comfortable, ill increase my attack


thanks for this ben, i bookmarked it and am working on it, i really want this important technique down smile.gif


kick ass video! he is a downpicking master! some of those riffs were super fast, motivating video thanks gab,
bookmarked the lesson, ill spend some time on ben's before i try to tackle it



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Cosmin Lupu
post May 27 2014, 08:44 AM
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I am warning you tho, it will take some time and you need to be patient with yourself - I dunno how you are faring with this special thing, called patience biggrin.gif But, whenever you are learning something, it's crucially important!

Everyone here has given great suggestions, so in my opinion, you should resume the conclusions with a few bullets and keep them in front of your eyes all the time until you internalize them and of course, share some recordings with us. I dare you to try the ending of Pantera's 'Walk'!


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dcz702
post May 27 2014, 10:48 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ May 27 2014, 07:44 AM) *
I am warning you tho, it will take some time and you need to be patient with yourself - I dunno how you are faring with this special thing, called patience biggrin.gif But, whenever you are learning something, it's crucially important!

Everyone here has given great suggestions, so in my opinion, you should resume the conclusions with a few bullets and keep them in front of your eyes all the time until you internalize them and of course, share some recordings with us. I dare you to try the ending of Pantera's 'Walk'!

yea im getting that with trying to progress smile.gif, you know how to call it cosmin, im a little frustrated, i know i can do it but my right hand just doesnt want to do it right now. im taking it slow practicing it clean, on a few lessons that i chose for down picking, im feeling improvment, and feeling a little more comfertable and can tell its getting closer , for me its kind of a tough thing but ill get there, ill check out walk smile.gif


thanks cosmin

This post has been edited by dcz702: May 28 2014, 12:18 AM
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Cosmin Lupu
post May 28 2014, 07:27 AM
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QUOTE (dcz702 @ May 27 2014, 09:48 PM) *
yea im getting that with trying to progress smile.gif, you know how to call it cosmin, im a little frustrated, i know i can do it but my right hand just doesnt want to do it right now. im taking it slow practicing it clean, on a few lessons that i chose for down picking, im feeling improvment, and feeling a little more comfertable and can tell its getting closer , for me its kind of a tough thing but ill get there, ill check out walk smile.gif


thanks cosmin


The pleasure is all mine! Right now - is not possible right now wink.gif take it as it is and work on improving it, rather than letting yourself be frustrated, ok? I am looking forward to hear about your progress so feel free to write me anytime wink.gif


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Todd Simpson
post May 28 2014, 07:34 AM
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Try to articulate the pick using your finger and thumb as much as you can to help the wrist not have to bear the entire burdent smile.gif Also, take a vid and show us how your progressing!

QUOTE (dcz702 @ May 27 2014, 05:48 PM) *
yea im getting that with trying to progress smile.gif, you know how to call it cosmin, im a little frustrated, i know i can do it but my right hand just doesnt want to do it right now. im taking it slow practicing it clean, on a few lessons that i chose for down picking, im feeling improvment, and feeling a little more comfertable and can tell its getting closer , for me its kind of a tough thing but ill get there, ill check out walk smile.gif


thanks cosmin



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dcz702
post Jun 2 2014, 01:32 AM
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so today i rolled out of bed picked up my guitar started my warm up, had some coffee and turned on gabs rise against lesson and was able to play the downpick part at tempo huh.gif , wierd just like like that after all that struggle. ill post a video on tues hopefully, working alot this month and take what time i have to practice, not messing with video.
just thought id let you know that woke up and it just clicked,
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Cosmin Lupu
post Jun 2 2014, 07:24 AM
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Sometimes, after a seemingly long practicing time - days, maybe months for some - the brain decided it's time to reward us and in a moment of relaxation, all that muscle memory kicks in ... aaaand.. surprise! It's there smile.gif Let's see the vid mate!


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Darius Wave
post Jun 2 2014, 10:58 AM
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In case of fast downstroke picking it's one of excpetions I personally think playing slowly will give You nothing because the main problems of tension and a workshop of it's control is not included. For me fast downstroke picking is like throwing ther stone through the water surface and watch how it jumps...

Each jumb is smaller...

That's what I do with that kind of picking. I put a lot of energy to the very first stroke but then I let my hand act like that stone in the water or a ping pong ball. Keeping it tensed will not help to increase the speed but at some picking speed it's hard or impossible to keep playing fast and with the same power


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dcz702
post Jun 2 2014, 02:14 PM
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QUOTE (Darius Wave @ Jun 2 2014, 09:58 AM) *
In case of fast downstroke picking it's one of excpetions I personally think playing slowly will give You nothing because the main problems of tension and a workshop of it's control is not included. For me fast downstroke picking is like throwing ther stone through the water surface and watch how it jumps...

Each jumb is smaller...

That's what I do with that kind of picking. I put a lot of energy to the very first stroke but then I let my hand act like that stone in the water or a ping pong ball. Keeping it tensed will not help to increase the speed but at some picking speed it's hard or impossible to keep playing fast and with the same power

Yes! I agree. When I was practicing it I was feeling why practice this slow, I'm not feeling the strain on my arm that's holding me back. So I practiced it at the threshold of what I could handle without being out of time with a metronome, and I thnk that pushin this technique helped me get there. Practicing slow on downpick doesn't build the indurance needed to hold the beat.
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Cosmin Lupu
post Jun 3 2014, 09:11 AM
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I guess it's different for everyone - I will also try Darius' method as I know he is a proficient picker!


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Darius Wave
post Jun 3 2014, 04:00 PM
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I have no idea if this works or not tongue.gif But...does the job for me....and for my real-life students I've noticed that in this particular case practicing slowly gives no results tongue.gif


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dcz702
post Jun 3 2014, 09:01 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Jun 3 2014, 08:11 AM) *
I guess it's different for everyone - I will also try Darius' method as I know he is a proficient picker!

yea i think people may arouch this different for me i could go at 90bpm with no problems, then i increase the tempo and id lock up, so i kept going as fast as i could at a tempo i where i would feel the strain but still able to keep up, over and over thats what worked for me, to get the lesson at least i could still learn to go faster
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Todd Simpson
post Jun 3 2014, 10:20 PM
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Great to hear it finally clicked!!! To master "tension", I'd say playing very close to the tension speed is a good idea then bump the metronome up just a bit as you go and you'll get there smile.gif So "slower" than max just like you did it.

Playing really "slow" is just to give your muscle memory a chance to develop while maintaining technique. It would be sorta pointless to jump from way slow to way fast sad.gif



QUOTE (dcz702 @ Jun 3 2014, 04:01 PM) *
yea i think people may arouch this different for me i could go at 90bpm with no problems, then i increase the tempo and id lock up, so i kept going as fast as i could at a tempo i where i would feel the strain but still able to keep up, over and over thats what worked for me, to get the lesson at least i could still learn to go faster


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