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> If I Only Knew More Scales Than The Pentatonic...
Gabriel Leopardi
post May 27 2014, 04:53 PM
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Learning new scales can be a real eye-opener but it can also be a brick wall for some people. There are lots of scales to learn that you can find in books, tabs and off course at GMC Theory Board but the most important thing is to know how and where to use them.

Do you feel limited by your scales knowledge? Have you tried learning new scales? How did it work out?

Please share your story here and we will be able to help each other.


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Marius Pop
post May 28 2014, 07:10 PM
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Nice topic, mate! I believe that once you have a firm knowledge of the major/minor scales you can build up a lot from there much easily smile.gif and the pentatonic is within them, of course biggrin.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post May 28 2014, 07:35 PM
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Hey guys! Don't be shy and comment here!

I'll be talking about Phrygian Major Mode at the Vchat in some minutes. Feel free to join: https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/chat/


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Mertay
post May 28 2014, 07:48 PM
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I do know a few smile.gif but when speaking of this I prefer to get into a little detail, is it for jamming or composing manner.

Cause when jamming you don't have the luxury to have time thinking of construction, but when composing one who has no idea of what (for example) modes are may use them as he/she probably heard it in a song or got familiar by practicing a solo.

My idea of guitarist development is, practicing and learning (not memorise but using) new scales is a must until someone has enough experience to identify/construct musical ideas to songs. With enough experience it starts to become often that while composing a melody one might not have an idea what scale it is until he/she analyzes it, which is pretty interesting smile.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post May 28 2014, 10:28 PM
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QUOTE (Mertay @ May 28 2014, 03:48 PM) *
I do know a few smile.gif but when speaking of this I prefer to get into a little detail, is it for jamming or composing manner.

Cause when jamming you don't have the luxury to have time thinking of construction, but when composing one who has no idea of what (for example) modes are may use them as he/she probably heard it in a song or got familiar by practicing a solo.

My idea of guitarist development is, practicing and learning (not memorise but using) new scales is a must until someone has enough experience to identify/construct musical ideas to songs. With enough experience it starts to become often that while composing a melody one might not have an idea what scale it is until he/she analyzes it, which is pretty interesting smile.gif



Most of the times, when I'm composing I just pay attention to what sounds in my mind, and I consider very important to have our ear trained to make the process or transposing ideas to guitar fast. Learning new scales doesn't only give us more tools for improvising, it also open our mind to new sounds and new combination of notes. I think that no matter if you forget the shapes in your guitar, if you feel the scale characteristic sound, and even more if you sing it, you incorporate new combinations into your mind library, don't you think so?


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Mertay
post May 28 2014, 11:21 PM
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Exactly smile.gif we all have listening habits that can sometimes limit us, its a great way to break free from such limitation.

I've seen a few videos like Vai or Satriani experimenting ideas and then turn them into songs...but fact is they never bring anything theoretically new, tonalities boundaries were broken even before they were born.

Their success though is to "fit" the idea accessible to a genre or their style.


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Cosmin Lupu
post May 29 2014, 08:51 AM
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Heh, Gabi has pointed out an important aspect smile.gif

I for one am NEVER thinking in terms of scales when I am writing or improvising - I just want to play what I hear in my head. If I want to refine that, I will record the line and see how I can tweak it. But prior ear training in respect to a particular scale, is actually the core that triggers certain sounds in our mind and the whole magic occurs when our brain mixes and matches things in a subconscious way, giving birth to musical ideas based on what we have been feeding him before.

Hah! This is magic smile.gif

Learn to HEAR and internalize the sounds of a scale rather then learning positions on the fretboard at first smile.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post May 29 2014, 03:10 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ May 29 2014, 04:51 AM) *
Heh, Gabi has pointed out an important aspect smile.gif

I for one am NEVER thinking in terms of scales when I am writing or improvising - I just want to play what I hear in my head. If I want to refine that, I will record the line and see how I can tweak it. But prior ear training in respect to a particular scale, is actually the core that triggers certain sounds in our mind and the whole magic occurs when our brain mixes and matches things in a subconscious way, giving birth to musical ideas based on what we have been feeding him before.

Hah! This is magic smile.gif

Learn to HEAR and internalize the sounds of a scale rather then learning positions on the fretboard at first smile.gif



Listening to varied music and singing along the melodies is also another secret for this. I've been doing this since I was a child. smile.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post May 30 2014, 08:27 AM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ May 29 2014, 02:10 PM) *
Listening to varied music and singing along the melodies is also another secret for this. I've been doing this since I was a child. smile.gif


And this makes two of us smile.gif I had NO clue of what I was singing - in respect to lyrics - but when I was about 8, the famous hit 'Zombie' by the Cranberries came out. Needless to say, I was in the bathtub and singing out loud to the chorus biggrin.gif My mom and dad were crazy laughing biggrin.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post May 31 2014, 04:37 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ May 30 2014, 04:27 AM) *
And this makes two of us smile.gif I had NO clue of what I was singing - in respect to lyrics - but when I was about 8, the famous hit 'Zombie' by the Cranberries came out. Needless to say, I was in the bathtub and singing out loud to the chorus biggrin.gif My mom and dad were crazy laughing biggrin.gif


hahaha another coincidence, I used to sing melodies without understanding a work of what I was singing... maybe this makes us focus even more on the melodic side of music.


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PosterBoy
post May 31 2014, 10:51 PM
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I lack the chordal and progression knowledge to create a backing for the scales to be used over.

I need to look at some more interesting music and see what chord extensions and progressions are being used or how they put 2 chord vamps together in an interesting way to play more modally


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Cosmin Lupu
post Jun 1 2014, 09:06 AM
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QUOTE (PosterBoy @ May 31 2014, 09:51 PM) *
I lack the chordal and progression knowledge to create a backing for the scales to be used over.

I need to look at some more interesting music and see what chord extensions and progressions are being used or how they put 2 chord vamps together in an interesting way to play more modally


First of all you should understand modal theory and the way in which modes can be harmonized - you will then be able to discern modal progressions wink.gif Take a look here: https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...showtopic=48825

Each mode derived from the major scale is described nicely and thoroughly smile.gif Please tell us if you need more guidance!


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jun 1 2014, 03:45 PM
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Well said Cosmin. Go for that stuff Posterboy which is very rich and then let us know when you need more help.

At the same time, analyze the music that you like, check what progressions and songs they use and try to use the theory thread to understand why it works that good. I'm here to help you if you need it. wink.gif


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korblitz
post Jun 1 2014, 04:03 PM
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I feel like pentatonic, or 5 note scales, are the starting block to understand the role of a scale. The more I delve deeper into scales: I see that the major scale is the parent scale. Where a parent scale, is the building block of all possible scales. If you look at a scale in scale degrees, they are just variations of the parent scale a.k.a major scale.
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PosterBoy
post Jun 1 2014, 09:04 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jun 1 2014, 03:45 PM) *
Well said Cosmin. Go for that stuff Posterboy which is very rich and then let us know when you need more help.

At the same time, analyze the music that you like, check what progressions and songs they use and try to use the theory thread to understand why it works that good. I'm here to help you if you need it. wink.gif



I found this as well which is really good

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...?showtopic=6023


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Cosmin Lupu
post Jun 2 2014, 07:30 AM
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QUOTE (PosterBoy @ Jun 1 2014, 08:04 PM) *
I found this as well which is really good

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...?showtopic=6023


Indeed man, there is valuable info here as well wink.gif Read through and try to apply it in as many tonalities as possible!

QUOTE (korblitz @ Jun 1 2014, 03:03 PM) *
I feel like pentatonic, or 5 note scales, are the starting block to understand the role of a scale. The more I delve deeper into scales: I see that the major scale is the parent scale. Where a parent scale, is the building block of all possible scales. If you look at a scale in scale degrees, they are just variations of the parent scale a.k.a major scale.


The minor and major pentatonic scales sit at the root of many other scales smile.gif

They are like a skeleton on which you can place other notes to form various modes for instance:

Major pentatonic - 1 2 3 5 6 - if for instance you add the 4th and 7th you get the major scale
Minor pentatonic - 1 b3 4 5 b7 - if you add the 2nd and b6th, you get the minor scale

What other notes can you add to the minor and major pentatonic to create other modes? smile.gif


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bleez
post Jun 2 2014, 08:29 AM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ May 27 2014, 04:53 PM) *
Do you feel limited by your scales knowledge? Have you tried learning new scales? How did it work out?

I really only know minor pentatonic huh.gif although I do like the sound of it a lot. Ive tried a couple of times trying to learn more scale theory in general but I tend to get either confused or overwhelmed and just go back to spending my practice time trying to play fast cool.gif

I do hate that I dont seem to know a lot of chords. I can listen to, say, Opeth, especially their Damnation album and Im blown away with all the different sounding chords they use, really cold spooky sounding stuff. I have no idea what any of those chords could be.


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korblitz
post Jun 2 2014, 09:08 AM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Jun 2 2014, 07:30 AM) *
Indeed man, there is valuable info here as well wink.gif Read through and try to apply it in as many tonalities as possible!



The minor and major pentatonic scales sit at the root of many other scales smile.gif

They are like a skeleton on which you can place other notes to form various modes for instance:

Major pentatonic - 1 2 3 5 6 - if for instance you add the 4th and 7th you get the major scale
Minor pentatonic - 1 b3 4 5 b7 - if you add the 2nd and b6th, you get the minor scale

What other notes can you add to the minor and major pentatonic to create other modes? smile.gif



Adding a #4 to the major pentatonic, would that be a major pentatonic lydian? 1 2 3 #4 5 6. No it wouldn't right? It has six notes. But I need the 3 to define if it's major or minor so I could do 1 2 3 #4 5 for Major Lydian Pentatonic?
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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jun 2 2014, 06:55 PM
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QUOTE (korblitz @ Jun 2 2014, 05:08 AM) *
Adding a #4 to the major pentatonic, would that be a major pentatonic lydian? 1 2 3 #4 5 6. No it wouldn't right? It has six notes. But I need the 3 to define if it's major or minor so I could do 1 2 3 #4 5 for Major Lydian Pentatonic?



Pentatonic means 5 tones, so I wouldn't call Pentatonic to a 6 notes scale. I think that this lesson HERE, and this thread HERE, will give you a full coverage of this interesting variation of the Pentatonic Major.


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Cosmin Lupu
post Jun 3 2014, 07:22 AM
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Spot on addition from Gabi biggrin.gif Korb, you just need to add the #4 and the 7 to get the Lydian smile.gif

1 2 3 5 6 = major pentatonic

1 2 3 #4 5 6 7 = Lydian

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