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Kizaze44
post Jul 12 2007, 09:29 PM
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I don't play professionally - but I do play a lot. Looking for a quality amp modestly priced. I'll be using it with a floor POD, so I don't need all the bells and whistles in the amp.

Any ideas?

Kizaze
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Andrew Cockburn
post Jul 12 2007, 09:38 PM
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QUOTE (Kizaze44 @ Jul 12 2007, 04:29 PM) *
I don't play professionally - but I do play a lot. Looking for a quality amp modestly priced. I'll be using it with a floor POD, so I don't need all the bells and whistles in the amp.

Any ideas?

Kizaze


If you are using it with a POD, unless you turn off the AMP modelling you don't want any sort of guitar amp at all, ideally you should look for a PA amp or maybe a keyboard amp. Reason being that the POD is designed to go through clean amplification, and any guitar amp adds chartacter that will fight with the pod and not sound so good.


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icedern
post Jul 12 2007, 09:41 PM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Jul 12 2007, 03:38 PM) *
If you are using it with a POD, unless you turn off the AMP modelling you don't want any sort of guitar amp at all, ideally you should look for a PA amp or maybe a keyboard amp. Reason being that the POD is designed to go through clean amplification, and any guitar amp adds chartacter that will fight with the pod and not sound so good.


Exactly 100% correct.


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Kizaze44
post Jul 12 2007, 10:35 PM
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I think I get it. But I'm reading many posts where people list amps that have many FX built-in and FX pedals that they also use. I guess they use thier pedals with "clean" amps? Hmmm. Let's say you have a VOX Valvetronix - couldn't you set it to its "cleanest" setting, and then use the POD with it?
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Andrew Cockburn
post Jul 12 2007, 10:39 PM
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QUOTE (Kizaze44 @ Jul 12 2007, 05:35 PM) *
I think I get it. But I'm reading many posts where people list amps that have many FX built-in and FX pedals that they also use. I guess they use thier pedals with "clean" amps? Hmmm. Let's say you have a VOX Valvetronix - couldn't you set it to its "cleanest" setting, and then use the POD with it?


The difference is that the POD has modelling.

An essential part of any guitar sound is the character the amp gives to the sound which is why we talk about them so much. Marshals sound different to Voxes ....

The POD does the "Sound like a Marshal AMP" or "Sound Like a VOC amp" bit for you with its amp modelling. IF you then feed it threough another amp, you'll get "Sounds like a Marshall fed through a VOX" which will likely be a mess.

Regarding effects such as CHorus reverb distortion etc - yes feed them through the clean channel of an AMP abd you benefit from the AMPS sound as well. In the case of the POS it is too much of a good thing.

That is why I suggested a PA or Keyboard AMP -= they are designed to faithfully reproduce, not to add character.


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Live long and prosper ...

My Stuff:

Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass
Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood
Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
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Kizaze44
post Jul 12 2007, 10:47 PM
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I understand - thanks again! Loads of amp choices out there!

Kizaze
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ZakkWylde
post Jul 12 2007, 11:04 PM
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Personal, I don't like modeling. It's just a fake in my View. It can never sound like the original. I prefer a quality amp and if I need some effects I'll use pedals. But that's your choice


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MickeM
post Jul 12 2007, 11:19 PM
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QUOTE (ZakkWylde @ Jul 13 2007, 12:04 AM) *
Personal, I don't like modeling. It's just a fake in my View. It can never sound like the original. I prefer a quality amp and if I need some effects I'll use pedals. But that's your choice

We're two camps here, Camp POD and Camp Tube Amp.

So far it's me and ZakkWylde in Camp Tube Amp against the rest of this community :lol

j/k smile.gif If you already got the POD you should listen to the POD experts and pay me and Zakk less attention. But if you ever want a tube amp Zakk will recommend you a Marshall and I will recommend you something else, so you'll get a couple choices. biggrin.gif


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SLASH91
post Jul 12 2007, 11:27 PM
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I've got a multi-effects pedal. Does playing it through a guitar amp mess with the sound.


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fkalich
post Jul 12 2007, 11:28 PM
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QUOTE (Kizaze44 @ Jul 12 2007, 02:29 PM) *
I don't play professionally - but I do play a lot. Looking for a quality amp modestly priced. I'll be using it with a floor POD, so I don't need all the bells and whistles in the amp.

Any ideas?

Kizaze


Go to carvin.com. They have the vintage series reduced. I would suggest the belaire. two great speakers, nice tube amp, $550. i would stick with a tube amp, and get all digital devices on the floor. tube amps retain value, and sound better. i have the nomad also. nice little amp. $370 right now. 5 or 15 watts. 15 watts is more than you might think. i forget the formula, i think it is, to double the sound output, you need 10 times as much watts. something like that.

edit: what some people don't realize is that tube amps actually have souls. in fact, when they die they go to tube amp heaven if they were good tube amps. solid state amps don't have a soul.

This post has been edited by fkalich: Jul 12 2007, 11:33 PM
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ZakkWylde
post Jul 12 2007, 11:37 PM
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QUOTE (MickeM @ Jul 13 2007, 12:19 AM) *
We're two camps here, Camp POD and Camp Tube Amp.

So far it's me and ZakkWylde in Camp Tube Amp against the rest of this community :lol

j/k smile.gif If you already got the POD you should listen to the POD experts and pay me and Zakk less attention. But if you ever want a tube amp Zakk will recommend you a Marshall and I will recommend you something else, so you'll get a couple choices. biggrin.gif

You are not Alone MickeM, I suffer with you. tongue.gif
No really go to a music store and compare a pod with tube amp


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Gear:
- Jackson USA Select KV2 King V with EMG 81/85
- Gibson Les Paul Custom Arctic White with EMG 81/85
- Ibanez Rg 8527 J Custom 7-String with DiMarzio Evolution and Air Norton

- Peavey 6505+ head with Marshall 1960AV 4x12 cab
- Peavey Vypyr 30 Practice Amp
- Dunlop Crybaby From Hell, Maxon OD808, Boss TU-2, MXR CarbonCopy, ISP Decimator, MXR Custom Audio Electronics Booster

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Andrew Cockburn
post Jul 12 2007, 11:42 PM
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QUOTE (ZakkWylde @ Jul 12 2007, 06:37 PM) *
You are not Alone MickeM, I suffer with you. tongue.gif
No really go to a music store and compare a pod with tube amp


Even though I am in the pod camp, I will do exactly that when I have some money to spare ... MickeM has softened me up to that extent over the months smile.gif


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Live long and prosper ...

My Stuff:

Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass
Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood
Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
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MickeM
post Jul 12 2007, 11:49 PM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Jul 13 2007, 12:28 AM) *
edit: what some people don't realize is that tube amps actually have souls. in fact, when they die they go to tube amp heaven if they were good tube amps. solid state amps don't have a soul.

laugh.gif AMEN to THAT!

And if Carvin has amps on sale I agree that's a good place to look

QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Jul 13 2007, 12:42 AM) *
Even though I am in the pod camp, I will do exactly that when I have some money to spare ... MickeM has softened me up to that extent over the months smile.gif

Yes yes... follow your urge and come over to the dar... tube amp camp.... Luke... wink.gif

And to be fair and honest I do have a Line6 product and it totaly rocks, the Guitarport. And I wish I had a POD, but probably first I will get an amp. rolleyes.gif


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Andrew Cockburn
post Jul 12 2007, 11:58 PM
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QUOTE (MickeM @ Jul 12 2007, 06:49 PM) *
And if Carvin has amps on sale I agree that's a good place to look
Yes yes... follow your urge and come over to the dar... tube amp camp.... Luke... wink.gif

And to be fair and honest I do have a Line6 product and it totaly rocks, the Guitarport. And I wish I had a POD, but probably first I will get an amp. rolleyes.gif


I'm currently listening to Senator Micke-atine ... curious and conflicted but not yet totally lost smile.gif

The way I see it, I have a plastic setup with my Variax and Pod, now I'll build a real setup with my Jem and a decent amp and some floor effects and then figure out which wins. Or as is more likely, which is best for what.

Sooner than you think MickeM I'll be starting a thread entitled "Which Amp Shall I Buy" - and you'll be amazed!

Actually I have to wait until I get my studio sorted out which could be a few months, I currently have zero space sad.gif


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Live long and prosper ...

My Stuff:

Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass
Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood
Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
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Evan
post Jul 13 2007, 01:50 AM
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Well I'll reluctantly weigh in -but first with so many 'which amp is best' threads I've gotta rant a little. rolleyes.gif

You know, the problems people run into when choosing an amp usually boils down to these three things:

1. They aren't quite sure of what they want out of an amp -it usually takes literally years of experience to first discover your desired tones (with tremendous detail) and then to learn what it takes inside an amp to deliver the sound you want. -In fact, some players take this subject so seriously and go so far in depth that they devote the majority of their time to gear modification or other pursuits of ideal tone instead of musicianship. There are many aspects to what you might want out of your amp such as volume, gain, number and types of channels, effects and much more. Your needs also depend heavily on where you will be playing -be it at home, in the studio, small clubs, or larger venues.

2. Because of the principles of number 1, the person asking often doesn't realize that the well meaning advice of others is in many cases based on what fit those peoples' needs -which doesn't necessarily match the needs of the person asking.

3. The people giving out advice in many cases know what works for them, but often they can't explain how or why that is the case in concrete or technical terms. -Most accomplished players focused on developing musicianship over technical understanding of amps.

Anyway sorry about that, but I had to get it out there I guess.

...So what the best amp to amplify a modeler? Well, Andrew's right- even the cleanest clean on any guitar amp alters the sound -A LOT. A PA system and most keyboard amps just make the signal louder with minimal changes, but every part of a guitar amp right down to the speakers is designed to make relatively big changes to the sound. So, if you're happy with the sound of your POD, and your goal is recreate that exact sound live for others to hear, any normal guitar amp is probably not an ideal choice for that purpose. There are amps made specifically for modellers like the POD and I'll post a link if I can find one.

Unless you're already sure the POD is 'your sound' then I would recommend against buying PA, Keys amp or modelling-specific amp because it would probably otherwise be useless to you without the POD. That $500 could go a good ways toward the setup of your dreams or at least one major component of it.
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blindwillie
post Jul 13 2007, 07:58 AM
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My take.
You cant put me in either of the camps. I want it all.
For me it isn't a choise between this amp or that, or the pod. The choise for me was pod or nothing. Yes. I want tube amps. I want them all. AND I want modelling amps. BUT I can't afford that. I can't use them at home. I don't want to fork out 2000 USD and settle with one great sound. How real as it may be. For me to do that would be plain stupid. I would end up with a museum of mint conditioned amps still in their wrapping.

I want several different models. I want to play different styles with different sound charateristics. I can plug it in to anything that fits to a line out/mic out. And the sound is great. Better than I thought it would be.

If I ever need a real amp (that would probably be for live playing, which isn't likely) ... Well, I'll buy the amp then. No problem.

There you go. Easy. Problem solved biggrin.gif


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jammer91
post Jul 13 2007, 11:48 AM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Jul 13 2007, 01:39 AM) *
The difference is that the POD has modelling.

An essential part of any guitar sound is the character the amp gives to the sound which is why we talk about them so much. Marshals sound different to Voxes ....

The POD does the "Sound like a Marshal AMP" or "Sound Like a VOC amp" bit for you with its amp modelling. IF you then feed it threough another amp, you'll get "Sounds like a Marshall fed through a VOX" which will likely be a mess.

Regarding effects such as CHorus reverb distortion etc - yes feed them through the clean channel of an AMP abd you benefit from the AMPS sound as well. In the case of the POS it is too much of a good thing.

That is why I suggested a PA or Keyboard AMP -= they are designed to faithfully reproduce, not to add character.


Andrew i dont really get this???

I have VOX valvetronics Ad30VT amp and if i buy a digitech df-7 will i get a good sound?

Also can i use effects such as delay built in the amp while using a pedal?


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QUOTE (Kristofer Dahl @ Nov 10 2007, 12:27 AM) *
Part of the key to success is to never call yourself good...


My RIg:
-Epiphone 1967 FLying V
-Line 6 POD XT live
-VOX Valvetronics AD30VT
-Yamaha EG-112
-Yamaha GA-10
-Some Yamaha acoustic which is a magnet to dust under my bed

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MickeM
post Jul 13 2007, 12:28 PM
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QUOTE (Evan @ Jul 13 2007, 02:50 AM) *
Well I'll reluctantly weigh in -but first with so many 'which amp is best' threads I've gotta rant a little. rolleyes.gif

You know, the problems people run into when choosing an amp usually boils down to these three things:

1. They aren't quite sure of what they want out of an amp -it usually takes literally years of experience to first discover your desired tones (with tremendous detail) and then to learn what it takes inside an amp to deliver the sound you want. -In fact, some players take this subject so seriously and go so far in depth that they devote the majority of their time to gear modification or other pursuits of ideal tone instead of musicianship. There are many aspects to what you might want out of your amp such as volume, gain, number and types of channels, effects and much more. Your needs also depend heavily on where you will be playing -be it at home, in the studio, small clubs, or larger venues.

2. Because of the principles of number 1, the person asking often doesn't realize that the well meaning advice of others is in many cases based on what fit those peoples' needs -which doesn't necessarily match the needs of the person asking.

3. The people giving out advice in many cases know what works for them, but often they can't explain how or why that is the case in concrete or technical terms. -Most accomplished players focused on developing musicianship over technical understanding of amps.

Anyway sorry about that, but I had to get it out there I guess.

Really good points! And in fact it's sometimes very difficult giving out advice since the question is more often "I want a good amp, what should I get" or "what's the best amp for metal" and very often a modeling amp comes as a suggestion... which hurts a bit tongue.gif Nah, that could be fun of course if you like to play around with different models but you were spot on right about the part that one should learn how to use an amp.

For a beginner an amp with an EQ, two or three channels, precence and reverb, volume and gain is enough. I belive a modeling amp with plenty of knobs and bells and whistles and thousands of preset sounds is more apealing to most beginners. The more the better huh? But having these few knobs, tweaking and testing your own settings will be a lot more giving if you want to learn how to use an amp.

And when that part is done once could look for which tubes gives me my sound, f.ex 5881, 6L6, EL34 to mention some common. And also to combine the amp with the speakers of your choise.

So the difficult part is to understand the needs of the one who asks, what's the prefeered sound. But discussing amps is fun so I don't mind long threads.

And for sure, we're all a bit biased but I'm trying not to be, but if someone is looking for a 100W full stack JCM800 for bedroom playing someone has to object laugh.gif


Ánd to the topic started I have to say I'm sorry for going off topic, I don't intend to steal this thread. smile.gif

QUOTE (jammer91 @ Jul 13 2007, 12:48 PM) *
Andrew i dont really get this???

I have VOX valvetronics Ad30VT amp and if i buy a digitech df-7 will i get a good sound?

Also can i use effects such as delay built in the amp while using a pedal?

You'd key in a clean channel/selection and then you will get the most out of the DF7.

Sure you can use delay or other built in effects, it's just adding delay to the effects chain.


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Andrew Cockburn
post Jul 13 2007, 01:32 PM
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QUOTE (jammer91 @ Jul 13 2007, 06:48 AM) *
Andrew i dont really get this???

I have VOX valvetronics Ad30VT amp and if i buy a digitech df-7 will i get a good sound?

Also can i use effects such as delay built in the amp while using a pedal?


Yes! Everything I said applied specifically to the POD not any other effect, because the POD has AMP modelling and is designed for a clean output channel.


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Check out my Instructor profile
Live long and prosper ...

My Stuff:

Electric Guitars : Ibanez Jem7v, Line6 Variax 700, Fender Plus Strat with 57/62 Pickups, Line6 Variax 705 Bass
Acoustic Guitars : Taylor 816ce, Martin D-15, Line6 Variax Acoustic 300 Nylon
Effects : Line6 Helix, Keeley Modded Boss DS1, Keeley Modded Boss BD2, Keeley 4 knob compressor, Keeley OxBlood
Amps : Epiphone Valve Jnr & Head, Cockburn A.C.1, Cockburn A.C.2, Blackstar Club 50 Head & 4x12 Cab
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Kizaze44
post Jul 13 2007, 05:33 PM
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Wow! Thanks for all the great advice here! (Leaning towards a tube amp as opposed to modelling amp).

Kizaze
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