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> Mith's Guitar Journey, for Gab's Army
Gabriel Leopardi
post Oct 14 2014, 09:54 PM
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Hi Mith! Great stuff here! You are starting to understand some of the advantages that learning the arpeggios and using them to improvise can give. As happens with pentatonics, there are lots of combinations and possible uses that can cover from simple soloing over the chord to really complex modal ideas.

About the root thing, you're right! You don't have to play the root every time you change the arpeggio, the idea is that you play any of the chord tones but not always the root. In this way, you will be able to create less predictable melodies that follow the chords. There is even a good exercise that you can do that is always playing the closer chord tone from the new chord sounding. This makes you visualize arpeggios on every part of the neck.

Those two patterns that you shared are next to each other so you can easily connect them and cover a wide section of the fret board. You should connect all the different patterns in order to cover the whole fret board, so this same idea should be applicable to the other patterns.

And finally, great to know that you decided to read the guitar bible! wink.gif


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Mith
post Oct 15 2014, 03:35 PM
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OK Here is the Wk 7 take.

Things I liked
-The motif. I liked how I applied the arpeggio. Really didn't move my hand that much just choose and arpeggio that was close to where I was already. one I knew where they fell in the chord change I tried starting and ending in different spots.
-My Dynamics feel better
-That slide from the F note down sounded like a cat purring and I liked that alot.
- Note placement. I felt I was alot more fluid to where notes would fall (practicing to backing tracks is really helping with this. Learning where target notes go and kind of just making sure those fall on the strong beats.
-The tone I used for it (I actually think I got it from your snow patrol lesson) with both pickups selected. Seemed to have a bit of chime about it. It gave it a bit of character to make it stand out but still feel a part of the backing.

thing to work on
-Even tho I used Pentatonic, Diatonic and arpeggios in the piece I would of liked to try to be able to move in and out of and arpeggio mid lick instead of having a arpeggio lick and a pentatonic lick etc.
-I found it hard to do much sequencing when the tempo is so slow. Not a huge deal but would be nice to think of one or 2 that would work in slower temp, Now that i think about it thirds or fourth might of been interesting
-Would like to speed the arpeggios up (I know comes with time) Really want to be able to go up and down in the last chord changes (I'm close tho, just sounds a tad rough so only a bit more work)
-Now that I'm getting use to these arps I might work on 2 handed tapping them (I actually tried this while practicing doing the 5th string shape and the tapping the G octave on the E string, just not enough gain to really sound that musical)


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Oct 15 2014, 03:56 PM
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Hi Mith! Great video and analysis!

I can say that your comments about your take and progress are so precise. As I said previously, it's really good to be that analytic at this point. I like that fact that you are playing soft but I think that the solo is lacking some aggression in some parts, as well as wider vibrato and more precise bends. By the way, this new recording is sounding much more musical than previous takes. You are going on the right track with this. You used different rhythm figures, and the silences are not part of your phrasing. This are all great things.

I like the guitar tone. Maybe it's not perfect for this backing, but it reminds me to modern indie rock guitarists like Jack White. It sounds clean but noisy, it's like a clean amp with a little of fuzz. It's interesting to hear you experimenting and playing with these type of guitar tones.

So, everything is going really well! Today I will be sharing a new week for the improvisation course, based con connecting positions. I hope to see you there! smile.gif


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Mith
post Oct 15 2014, 04:36 PM
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One of these days I might make it to one of the lessons live but its on around 3am my time being on the other side of the world and all.


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Oct 16 2014, 01:59 AM
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QUOTE (Mith @ Oct 15 2014, 12:36 PM) *
One of these days I might make it to one of the lessons live but its on around 3am my time being on the other side of the world and all.



That's a bad hour depending on the hour you get up the following day. biggrin.gif


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Mith
post Oct 16 2014, 02:49 AM
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Around 7am. Which isn't the biggest problem but my thursday's are really busy and I'm not ussally home until 12-2 in the morning. Tho they might free up for a little while so I might try and pop in to at least one chat

QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Oct 16 2014, 08:59 AM) *
That's a bad hour depending on the hour you get up the following day. biggrin.gif



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Gabriel Leopardi
post Oct 16 2014, 02:06 PM
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QUOTE (Mith @ Oct 15 2014, 10:49 PM) *
Around 7am. Which isn't the biggest problem but my thursday's are really busy and I'm not ussally home until 12-2 in the morning. Tho they might free up for a little while so I might try and pop in to at least one chat



Ah yeah, you get up really early. Time difference! mad.gif


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Mith
post Oct 18 2014, 05:18 AM
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I was just doing some research on arpeggios since its something I've enjoyed getting into and I read that there are certain progressions that lend themselves to more interesting arpeggio combinations. Is there any merit in that. If so could you elaborate for me?

Also I seem to end up playing the harmonic minor scale when messing around with minor arpeggios. Seem to give them that creepy ghostly feel which I really dig. Being such a basic chord progression I take it A harmonic minor should be pretty easy to play instead of A minor.

Would the arpeggios change shape at all given it is a different scale. Or is me playing a 5th string arpeggios then a harmonic minor lick more of a modulation?

Decided to upload a sample of what I mean since it speaks louder than words. What effectively is that Ab. Would it be considered just a chromatic add? or should it be treat as either the melodic or harmonic minor. Or it really depends on what else I play. Only asking since I really like the context of it so I want to understand how to look at it from a theory point of view so I can apply it whenever I want it

This post has been edited by Mith: Oct 18 2014, 02:55 PM


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Oct 18 2014, 06:06 PM
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Hi Mith! That's how advanced improvisation works and one of the main advantages of being able to follow chords with arpeggios while improvising. In this case yore playing the minor arpeggio of each chord combined with a different minor scale for each one. You are using the harmonic minor scale of each one, but you could also experiment with some other minor modes and see which combinations you like more. If you focus on chord tones, changing the scale for a different minor mode will sound right.

We will be working on this stuff on the improvisation course, but you can check this threads where you can learn all the scales that can be used over major, minor and dominant chords.

Click HERE.


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Mith
post Oct 18 2014, 06:22 PM
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So I can effectively use any minor mode or scale over a minor chord?


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Mith
post Oct 19 2014, 03:08 PM
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One other thing. I'm having a little trouble doing pull offs. Hammer ons are find and solid but I find I'm much slower with pull offs. There seems to be alot of tension in my hand when I execute them so I think my technique is a little off. Tho there is no tention in my hand doing hammer ons.


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Oct 19 2014, 07:59 PM
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QUOTE (Mith @ Oct 18 2014, 02:22 PM) *
So I can effectively use any minor mode or scale over a minor chord?


Instead of answering this question, I preffer to invite you to experiment and then share with me the conclusions that you get based on what you hear. Ok?

QUOTE (Mith @ Oct 19 2014, 11:08 AM) *
One other thing. I'm having a little trouble doing pull offs. Hammer ons are find and solid but I find I'm much slower with pull offs. There seems to be alot of tension in my hand when I execute them so I think my technique is a little off. Tho there is no tention in my hand doing hammer ons.



You should try to play it with less pressure. The sound that you get is not related to the pressure you do, it's related to how strong you attach the string with the finger that you quit to make the next note sound. I would like to see a video of you playing this technique to check what you are doing...

Maybe doing one of these lessons?

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guit...ll-offs-lesson/
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/Hammer...Pull-Off-Etude/


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Mith
post Oct 20 2014, 02:07 PM
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Ok here is my little mess around. Not so much focused on playing licks just hearing how it all sounds.

For the most part I don't think its that great to move too far away from the Minor scale But I find you can go into other scales (Other modes of the diatonic don't really cut it I don't think, just sounds like too many wrong notes)

Harmonic Minor works for me I think. It was even interesting going from a minor pentatonic into it.
Melodic Minor This one surprised me (mixo b6) its a major third if I remember rightly so I thought it would sound pretty bad but it kinda of worked if you play around with it right
Double Harmonic minor felt pretty much the same as above but did seem to have a little spice. Not sure which I liked better. (I might favor this since its not so common)
Romanian Minor worked but was neither hear not there for me.

So What I think I learnt. Minor scales arn't always interchangeable but some kinda are depending on the progression. For some reason I really like the ones with a major 3rd when over a minor track. I'm not sure why, it makes no sense to me. Different scales will need different arpeggios. Last thing I learnt is this concept is really hard.

When putting a different scales or modes on top of a progression in another its best to use the color notes (EG 2 Degree of the phrygian) as passing notes to hint at the different scale but not overpower everything. The other thing would be too move the whole implied scale with the chord sequence, which I didn't try but I can see that might work a bit.

End of the day would be easier to think of the color of a note in a different scale and hit that if you want to imply that emotion but not really move into that scale


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Oct 21 2014, 01:56 AM
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Hi Myth, this is a very interesting experiment.

Your conclusions show that your ear is very tight and trained. I've listened to all the samples and I can say that that I agree with you about everything. You're right when you say that the scale depends on the overall progression. If you are planning to use a same scale in the whole tune, you should be sure of two things:

- You will follow each of the chords with arpeggios and use the other notes as passing notes.
- the chord progression belongs to the chords that you get when you harmonized in thirds the scale / mode used.

When the chords are not in the same tonality / mode, means that some chords appear as a modal interchange, and you should change the scale when they sound to make everything sound "in".

About the major third over a minor chord: Bingo! We love it, we are used to hear this in most of the blues songs that we've listened since we were born. The combination of major and minor thirds gives music that bluesy sound that blues, rock and even jazz players love. Keep on experimenting with it.

This bluesy lick in A minor has a bend from minor third to major third that is used a lot in blues, check it out:

Attached Image


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Mith
post Oct 21 2014, 05:48 AM
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Something to keep in mind, I do like adding blues feel to my playing. Do we get into the harmonic minor, Melodic minor double minor scales in this improv thing and the arpeggios asociated with them? Or is this something we can continue on afterwards? Really like using exotic scales since it gives things a little edge.


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Oct 21 2014, 02:43 PM
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We will get into harmonic minor and many other things! I recommend you to work on 1 thing at a time to be sure that you are going deep. The course is very complete and you'll be ready to apply the same concept to all the other exotic scales that you'd like to work. We will also get very deeply on blues and all the possible scales and variations. wink.gif

A good idea to go deeper with the concepts is to work on GMC lessons based on the concepts of each week. I usually shared "Complementary GMC lessons" after each module, please work on them and also search for other ones that you will wait just using the search section.

I really recommend you to get the best of each week of this course, and use the week to focus on the concepts during those days. We are closer reaching the second half of the course so there is not too much time to go.



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Mith
post Oct 21 2014, 03:27 PM
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Yeah I guess I like planning ahead. And I'm like man we are almost 1/2 way through I wonder how much more we can fit in. Anyway should have the next weeks lesson ready tomorrow. Just need to brush up on some sequencing stuff since it seems I've gotten a little rusty on them. Pretty sure I can do last weeks one pretty quick tho since moving position is something I've done from the start. But to kick it up a notch I might work on putting my favorite 4 not sequence across a 3 and a bit octave range.

I think I'm going to try get some pentatonic licks under my fingers to add to my playing. at the moment I kinda just play whats in my head. Oh I've also be messing about with a motif not being lick or anything but more of a "mood" with a hint of some familiar notes. At the very least its helping my dynamics.

Thanks for all your help Gab


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Oct 21 2014, 05:01 PM
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This sounds like a very good plan. Remember that the main goal of this course is making music. So I prefer that you put more emphasis on creating more and more musical ideas using a few concepts, than learning everything and adding even more stuff. Don't be obsessive with quantity of stuff, try to get the most from a few concepts and scales and you will be able to go deeper with your creativity. There are very talented popular guitarist that has made a killer career and lots of great songs with a few scales... maybe one or two ones... check Angus Young, BB King, Slash, Hendrix, Zakk Wylde... and the list could last forever... smile.gif


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Mith
post Oct 28 2014, 01:49 PM
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Ok here is week 8's take. Feel like I got the minor arpeggios under my fingers. So far I think the 5th string root is my favorite for both the minor and major arpeggio. Makes me wonder if I should have this new guitar tuned to Drop C. Keep the top nice and simple for playing rhythm and still have the higher strings tighter to give more range.

Anyway good points on this take. I started implementing different concepts into licks. For example the main lick goes from and arpeggio to a diatonic (pedal lick) to a sequence. And actually changes scale. It does make it a fair bit more interesting. Bends and vibrato are a little better still (still needs a bit of work but improving)

Things that could of gone better. I think this song ended up a bit cluttered. Not much breathing room with licks and not really enough pauses but I really feel that was more of the slower pace of the backing. Doesn't agree with me as much it seems. The arpeggios could of sounded more flowy but I think thats more of a think that will come as they start feel more natural.

All in all I think it went ok
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Gabriel Leopardi
post Oct 28 2014, 03:36 PM
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Hi mate! Congrats on your progress!

Your playing is very melodic and fits great with the chord progression. There are basically two things that I would improve:

- Use of silences.

- More rhythm and length variations.

The solo starts great but when it reaches to the mid section I start to get tired of similar melodies with many notes and the same rhythm. It's lacking, shorter melodies, longer notes and more silences. Please check out the analysis done by Aris clicking HERE.


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