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> Guitarists - don’t lie to yourselves!
Gabriel Leopardi
post Jun 7 2014, 04:05 PM
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I'm used to receive students who want to learn to play fast. Some times they are obsessed with this and they push themselves a lot to achieve this goal, even sacrificing cleanliness, clearness and sound of their playing,

Do you perhaps push speed a little too much, just because you so desperately want to reach those 150 bpm? Does it really matter if you’re in full control, no one will hear if you miss a note anyway… or?


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Spock
post Jun 7 2014, 06:09 PM
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Yea, that was pretty much my philosophy on playing. Though I've never attained a level of real speed - in soloing in general, I would just hit the main notes then fill in, I would get close and be okay with that.

The record button changed everything. It was when I first started trying to record parts that my monumental lack of skill was firmly realized.

So now my philosophy is, thanks to "The Record Button" and "GMC"... "I'm nowhere near where I want to be, but I'm a whole lot better than I was".
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Huargo
post Jun 7 2014, 06:17 PM
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True but.... you can go faster to brake barriers and start to cleanup after that?. I notice a step forward in my speed picking but i notice too that my hand not had a good muted strings tecnique... but i never notice that until i go fast..
anyway get fun!
smile.gif


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Mertay
post Jun 7 2014, 06:48 PM
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Depends really, I mean the selected tone has a lot to do with it imho (unless we're talking about practicing). By the way what sort of mistakes are we talking about?

Usually I notice students using too much strength, I also did that mistake. It's a mistake that cannot be heard but just as the student develops the speed, he notices the muscles can't take an entire concert as he always practiced exercises...


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Todd Simpson
post Jun 7 2014, 07:04 PM
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Great point smile.gif I see this quite a bit as well and it's normal but should be fought against. The body wants to tighten up during fast playing and you have to really work at not tensing.

Not making HUGE jumps in speed helps. E.G. Play at a speed just before you tense up and slowly bump up while maintaining control of arms/body tension. Jumping ahead of where you can actually play typically creates large amounts of tension in the arm and folks end up "Picking from the Elbow" which reduces precision and exhausts the arm reducing practice time.

Also a great point in this thread about recording. Until you record yourself you aren't really hearing what your playing. While you are playing you can't fully appreciate what it actually sounds like. Typically only after you listen to the playback can you hear all the faults smile.gif it can be depressing a bit at first but it's worth it smile.gif




QUOTE (Mertay @ Jun 7 2014, 01:48 PM) *
Depends really, I mean the selected tone has a lot to do with it imho (unless we're talking about practicing). By the way what sort of mistakes are we talking about?

Usually I notice students using too much strength, I also did that mistake. It's a mistake that cannot be heard but just as the student develops the speed, he notices the muscles can't take an entire concert as he always practiced exercises...


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post Jun 7 2014, 07:17 PM
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I'm one of those guys who want to play fast (at least being able to play LVL 5 lessons).
I've been playing for 6 years and I'm only able to play LVL4 lessons sad.gif
Is it because of the attention I pay to create a clean sound that makes me play slow?


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Mertay
post Jun 7 2014, 07:36 PM
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QUOTE (Deleted @ Jun 7 2014, 06:17 PM) *
I'm one of those guys who want to play fast (at least being able to play LVL 5 lessons).
I've been playing for 6 years and I'm only able to play LVL4 lessons sad.gif
Is it because of the attention I pay to create a clean sound that makes me play slow?


This question should be handled in detail when answering, I'd ask a teacher in chat or create a separate topic as some info's must be shared.

Here's an example of me playing what is NOT ideal, a solo made for a Collab. (was rushed) but look how hard I pick and how tense I am in the webcam audio;



This post has been edited by Mertay: Jun 7 2014, 07:38 PM


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Cosmin Lupu
post Jun 8 2014, 08:11 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jun 7 2014, 06:04 PM) *
Great point smile.gif I see this quite a bit as well and it's normal but should be fought against. The body wants to tighten up during fast playing and you have to really work at not tensing.

Not making HUGE jumps in speed helps. E.G. Play at a speed just before you tense up and slowly bump up while maintaining control of arms/body tension. Jumping ahead of where you can actually play typically creates large amounts of tension in the arm and folks end up "Picking from the Elbow" which reduces precision and exhausts the arm reducing practice time.

Also a great point in this thread about recording. Until you record yourself you aren't really hearing what your playing. While you are playing you can't fully appreciate what it actually sounds like. Typically only after you listen to the playback can you hear all the faults smile.gif it can be depressing a bit at first but it's worth it smile.gif


Two great points here by Todd wink.gif

- pushing speed little by little and with control over the phenomenon
- recording yourself constantly, in order to be realistic with your progress and PRESENT DAY abilities

These require patience, discipline and more than that AWARENESS and the speed obsessed beginners lack both, usually smile.gif But the good news is, that if they truly want to become better they will develop these essential traits.

Which one do you guys feel you lack sometimes - discipline, patience or awareness?

This post has been edited by Cosmin Lupu: Jun 8 2014, 08:11 AM


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Rileyandrew29
post Jun 8 2014, 11:30 AM
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QUOTE
- pushing speed little by little and with control over the phenomenon
- recording yourself constantly, in order to be realistic with your progress and PRESENT DAY abilities

These require patience, discipline and more than that AWARENESS and the speed obsessed beginners lack both, usually smile.gif But the good news is, that if they truly want to become better they will develop these essential traits.

Which one do you guys feel you lack sometimes - discipline, patience or awareness?


It was awareness it seemed for me. Not anymore. I am now enlightened. Now to work on discipline!!

This site is great thanks smile.gif
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klasaine
post Jun 8 2014, 03:22 PM
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Slightly OT but definitely related.

I had a gig last night outside (civic sponsored concert). Usually in SoCal this time of year the air is calm and warm.
Well, not last night. Windy and it got a little cool. And like the Cali idiot I can be sometimes - I just wore a t-shirt laugh.gif

My hands were a little cold and there was no time to 'warm-up'.
I knew I was not going to able to pull off some quicker licks and lines - I could feel that I would have crashed and burned. So I didn't try. Instead of failing, I played at speeds I was confident and comfortable with at that moment.


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jun 8 2014, 08:01 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Jun 8 2014, 04:11 AM) *
Two great points here by Todd wink.gif

- pushing speed little by little and with control over the phenomenon
- recording yourself constantly, in order to be realistic with your progress and PRESENT DAY abilities

These require patience, discipline and more than that AWARENESS and the speed obsessed beginners lack both, usually smile.gif But the good news is, that if they truly want to become better they will develop these essential traits.

Which one do you guys feel you lack sometimes - discipline, patience or awareness?


Thanks for summarizing Cosmin. Can't agree more about the advantages that recording can give us, not only to develop our technique, and improvisations, also to be able to analyze our compositions alone and with our bands. I could notice that it's very difficult to have a sense of the whole thing when we are playing and composing with the band. The only way to be sure if the arrangements, structure and ideas of a song are working is to using all our attention to just listen.


QUOTE (klasaine @ Jun 8 2014, 11:22 AM) *
Slightly OT but definitely related.

I had a gig last night outside (civic sponsored concert). Usually in SoCal this time of year the air is calm and warm.
Well, not last night. Windy and it got a little cool. And like the Cali idiot I can be sometimes - I just wore a t-shirt laugh.gif

My hands were a little cold and there was no time to 'warm-up'.
I knew I was not going to able to pull off some quicker licks and lines - I could feel that I would have crashed and burned. So I didn't try. Instead of failing, I played at speeds I was confident and comfortable with at that moment.



That's a good idea. I remember that we played the coldest day of the year at an open place. I didn't have a good time, my hands were frozen and playing the faster licks has been a tricky job. The best would have been to go for the safe side, however it would be weird for Cirse's fans to hear simplifies versions of the solos, wouldn't it?



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dcz702
post Jun 8 2014, 08:20 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jun 7 2014, 03:05 PM) *
I'm used to receive students who want to learn to play fast. Some times they are obsessed with this and they push themselves a lot to achieve this goal, even sacrificing cleanliness, clearness and sound of their playing,

Do you perhaps push speed a little too much, just because you so desperately want to reach those 150 bpm? Does it really matter if you’re in full control, no one will hear if you miss a note anyway… or?

i think its most important to play clean! i feel if i cant play it clean i cant play it.

i have a goal for my level of playing now and its a heafty goal for me. for instance darius's alternate picking workout, i know i can play it, but im not pushing it, and eventually if i can get there, it will open up more possibilities on what im able to play, cause alot of music i listen to uses that technique.

and im downpicking if i cant play 100 bpm clean, how can i expect to play 180 alternate, i move back and forth from those lessons, and remebering i want to make music to.
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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jun 8 2014, 08:26 PM
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QUOTE (dcz702 @ Jun 8 2014, 04:20 PM) *
i think its most important to play clean! i feel if i cant play it clean i cant play it.

i have a goal for my level of playing now and its a heafty goal for me. for instance darius's alternate picking workout, i know i can play it, but im not pushing it, and eventually if i can get there, it will open up more possibilities on what im able to play, cause alot of music i listen to uses that technique.

and im downpicking if i cant play 100 bpm clean, how can i expect to play 180 alternate, i move back and forth from those lessons, and remebering i want to make music to.



Well done! You already have that goal. How is your plan? how many diary time do you practice?


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Cosmin Lupu
post Jun 9 2014, 07:15 AM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jun 8 2014, 07:01 PM) *
Thanks for summarizing Cosmin. Can't agree more about the advantages that recording can give us, not only to develop our technique, and improvisations, also to be able to analyze our compositions alone and with our bands. I could notice that it's very difficult to have a sense of the whole thing when we are playing and composing with the band. The only way to be sure if the arrangements, structure and ideas of a song are working is to using all our attention to just listen.


Precisely! This is one of the important part of our Days of Confusion working routine. We each record ideas at home or together at the rehearsal room and try to take them as far up as possible at home, in respect to orchestration and detail. Once we get together again, we share the ideas and then we try to put some together in order to form more elaborate structures.

How does the process occur for Cirse?


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jun 9 2014, 02:30 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Jun 9 2014, 03:15 AM) *
Precisely! This is one of the important part of our Days of Confusion working routine. We each record ideas at home or together at the rehearsal room and try to take them as far up as possible at home, in respect to orchestration and detail. Once we get together again, we share the ideas and then we try to put some together in order to form more elaborate structures.

How does the process occur for Cirse?


In our case, I have been the music composer so everything started in my home, recording using software like Cubase or Nuendo, in the early days I used Cakewalk 9. Then we played it at the rehearsal room to arrange the songs, and to see how it feels live. Sometimes structure and parts are changed so then is when the recording rehearsals become important.


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Cosmin Lupu
post Jun 10 2014, 10:41 PM
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It's always a matter of mixing and matching until the final form is ready. We have some doubts about some songs which were on the EP biggrin.gif But that's just crazy man! I always tell Cezar it's nonsense to think like: 'Ah, we could've done better!' Not at that point! That was the BEST thing we had back then smile.gif Have you had such thoughts?


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jun 11 2014, 03:16 PM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Jun 10 2014, 06:41 PM) *
It's always a matter of mixing and matching until the final form is ready. We have some doubts about some songs which were on the EP biggrin.gif But that's just crazy man! I always tell Cezar it's nonsense to think like: 'Ah, we could've done better!' Not at that point! That was the BEST thing we had back then smile.gif Have you had such thoughts?


Definitely! Each album of my band is a picture of the moment, it reflects what we were at that time. Sometimes, working too much on an albums quits its essence.


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Cosmin Lupu
post Jun 12 2014, 08:30 AM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jun 11 2014, 02:16 PM) *
Definitely! Each album of my band is a picture of the moment, it reflects what we were at that time. Sometimes, working too much on an albums quits its essence.


You must agree that there's a very thin line between knowing when it is done and continuing to push smile.gif How do you usually figure that out? Is it a consenssuous feeling from all the band, or?


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jun 13 2014, 04:05 AM
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QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Jun 12 2014, 04:30 AM) *
You must agree that there's a very thin line between knowing when it is done and continuing to push smile.gif How do you usually figure that out? Is it a consenssuous feeling from all the band, or?



I decided to let that another person mixes my band's albums to avoid this problem. biggrin.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Jun 13 2014, 01:20 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jun 13 2014, 03:05 AM) *
I decided to let that another person mixes my band's albums to avoid this problem. biggrin.gif


Well, in our family, that doesn't work laugh.gif I think Cezar would go nuts if he wouldn't have anything to say about when things are done and why laugh.gif


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