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> Great Playing And Mixing From Our Very Own Timmyb
Cosmin Lupu
post Jun 16 2014, 10:49 AM
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Hey guys and gals!

I am very proud to present this young man's work: https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...st&p=689144

Slash's 'Starlight' - recorded and mixed by the man himself smile.gif I think he did an amazing job and I will let him tell us the story of this mix. I must also tell you that he started from scratch, knowing close to nothing about mixing and because he researched and tried hard, he came up with a great result!

Another thing - his work is living proof that you don't need uber high end gear to manage to get a good sounding mix at home! I hope he will take a bit of time to tell us exactly what he used so that you guys will be convinced wink.gif

Let's hear it for Tim!


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jun 16 2014, 03:23 PM
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Congratulations Timmy on this great work! I can notice that you could get a very nice sound in the overall mix. At first I didn't remembered the song and I had this first thoughts:

- Everything is played top level! Your guitar playing is excellent on this track.
- Nice guitar tone, it's clean an balanced.
- That bass sounds very Gun's & Roses.
- Drums are ok, but they lack some punch.

Then I decided to compare your track with the original one. Comparing is one of the best ways to improve mixes, even more if you are mixing a cover song. However, our ears used to get tired and to response less after many hours and days of practice, so it's good to give them a rest or to ask anybody else for some feedback. When I compare your mix with the original I find these differences:

- Slash's guitar sound is a bit dirtier and has a different color compared to your playing. It seems that he is using a very clean Marshal channel with the addition of a tube screamer which gives that high dirty sound that isn't metal distortion, it's more like an overdrive. Also, I think that he is using the central or neck pick up position to get that mid range color.

- Drums sound with more compression in the original track and cymbals sound more open. The overall mix includes some more air that could be achieved with some more frequencies over 15 Khz. Also, I note some differences in Kick and Snare Eq. You could experiment a bit more with them. Listen only to the kick on both versions (yours and original) and try to emulate the EQ. I can notice that the original kick has more low end compared to you, experiment increasing some db at 50 HZ and also increase a bit the high kick sound, trying to find where is the high frequency that can be heard in the original (around 2500 and 5000 hz).

- Reverb. Your mix sounds dry compared to Slash's track and I think that the difference is mostly on your drums. You should add some reverb to snare, cymbals and room channels, and maybe put room channel a bit louder in the mix. Pay attention to ambiance when you hear both takes and you'll see what I mean.

The most difficult thing to get when we work at home with VSTi and programming midi is mixes that sound as big as studio mixes that include real instruments, so that's where we have to put emphasis. Reverb, compression and EQ are the tools we have to emulate it.

Keep on the good work!


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bleez
post Jun 16 2014, 06:47 PM
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that was some damn good playing smile.gif
I would not have guessed that intro was played on an ibanez.


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Cosmin Lupu
post Jun 17 2014, 07:16 AM
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Great input from Gabriel here! He is by far one of the most experimented mix folks here at GMC and his advice is very valuable wink.gif

I'd be curious to hear the improved version of the take with Gabi's suggestions added! Now, Tony is another guy who's opinion I am curious to hear, so before adding anything to it, let's see what he has to say.


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Jeroen
post Jun 17 2014, 07:18 AM
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Job well done indeed. Nice overall mix, although I would bring the bassdrum a bit more to the foreground, but that's my personal taste.

One thing is definitely missing: a guitar solo!

Now go find a singer and complete the track wink.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Jun 17 2014, 10:32 AM
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QUOTE (Jeroen @ Jun 17 2014, 06:18 AM) *
Job well done indeed. Nice overall mix, although I would bring the bassdrum a bit more to the foreground, but that's my personal taste.

One thing is definitely missing: a guitar solo!

Now go find a singer and complete the track wink.gif


Who knows, maybe he will learn how to sing as quickly as he learned how to mix smile.gif

Jeroen - how are you faring mate? We were missing you in the practice schedule thread wink.gif


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Timmy b
post Jun 18 2014, 09:06 PM
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Thanks for all the praise and suggestions guys!
There's no solo because Unfortunately im not a capable lead player in any sense. Some day soon I hope!
If anyone wants to lay down a solo, Id be very happy!

Thanks a lot to Gabriel for the detailed analysis, The drums are definetly an area I need to improve on

I will look at these problem areas and get an updated mix together.


Also, I will do a walk through video of the project on the weekend, for the people interested how I put it all together in the Daw


Thanks Guys!

Tim


QUOTE (Cosmin Lupu @ Jun 17 2014, 11:32 AM) *
Who knows, maybe he will learn how to sing as quickly as he learned how to mix smile.gif


Lets not get carried away now! mellow.gif
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Cosmin Lupu
post Jun 19 2014, 07:09 AM
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I am not getting carried away man smile.gif I know you are talented enough to pull something out of your hat pretty quickly wink.gif So I was thinking that maybe you can try this as well - you see, singing will develop a completely new and awesome musical sense.

You will feel music differently and the connection between your hearing and your guitar will also be enhanced, because there's going to be a little help coming from your voice. This will boost your lead playing as well wink.gif Remember what we were talking in the video chat sessions in the past - as long as you can reproduce something with your voice, it means it is internalized and reproducing it with ANY other instrument is just a matter of time and exercise wink.gif

Whenever you make up your mind about it, I'd be happy to assist smile.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jun 19 2014, 02:16 PM
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Yesterday, we have been discussing about this and a new mix at the chat room with Timmy. We had a really cool chat where we talked about how things changed nowadays thanks to technologies and the fact that everybody is able to record and mix at their homes. We listed pros (as being able to produce your own music) and cons (like the fact that musicians aren't as precise as in the past because they know that everything can be edited).

Timmy shared with me that cover he recorded of the song Wheels by Foo Fighters. His guitar sound is amazing on that track, he did a killer job. Everybody should listen to those guitars!

We also detected things to improve on drums and bass but he is definitely improving his mixing skills very fast.

Congrats Timmy and thanks the the cool talk at the Chat Room. wink.gif


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Jun 19 2014, 03:20 PM
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Just my opinion on the mix based on the mp3, which of course isn't ideal.

It's a pretty good mix and I've heard a lot worse recently.

I'm not going to compare it to the original not least as I haven't got it so just my thoughts on the mix as it is:

I agree with much of what Gab said although I'd suggest that he needs to be careful with reverb on the drums as it will push the kit further backwards.

I also agree that there is a lack of air and also shimmer. Just my opinion but I'd go a bit further and say that the mix tends to be dominated by the lows and low/mid mid range though to some extent that's probabably more an issue with the original arrangement.

I think the bass is fighting the kick at times and so there needs to be a touch more separation between the two. The bass and kick also wallow and ring on a touch. I'd suggest that you look at your times on your compressors. The bass for me is also quite a long way back in the field and i think it needs to come forward.

Cymbal hits and snare aren't always tonally consistent.

Some of the rythym guitar part are a bit lost in the mix and there's a lack of space, L to R and F to B. I think some of the rythym guitar in the R channel has too much reverb (about 1/3rd through) and ends up being indefinite, washy and pushed too far back.

The track for me is a bit too compressed but that is probably more to do with it being an mp3 than the mix. I would say though that the distorted lead intro to me doesn't sound that 'musical' in terms of the distortion/overdrive voicing and it also seems a bit flat.

Anyway as i said it's certainly not a bad mix and better than quite a few I've heard recently. So all in all a good job for a first attempt.


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Cosmin Lupu
post Jun 20 2014, 07:44 AM
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QUOTE (tonymiro @ Jun 19 2014, 02:20 PM) *
Just my opinion on the mix based on the mp3, which of course isn't ideal.

It's a pretty good mix and I've heard a lot worse recently.

I'm not going to compare it to the original not least as I haven't got it so just my thoughts on the mix as it is:

I agree with much of what Gab said although I'd suggest that he needs to be careful with reverb on the drums as it will push the kit further backwards.

I also agree that there is a lack of air and also shimmer. Just my opinion but I'd go a bit further and say that the mix tends to be dominated by the lows and low/mid mid range though to some extent that's probabably more an issue with the original arrangement.

I think the bass is fighting the kick at times and so there needs to be a touch more separation between the two. The bass and kick also wallow and ring on a touch. I'd suggest that you look at your times on your compressors. The bass for me is also quite a long way back in the field and i think it needs to come forward.

Cymbal hits and snare aren't always tonally consistent.

Some of the rythym guitar part are a bit lost in the mix and there's a lack of space, L to R and F to B. I think some of the rythym guitar in the R channel has too much reverb (about 1/3rd through) and ends up being indefinite, washy and pushed too far back.

The track for me is a bit too compressed but that is probably more to do with it being an mp3 than the mix. I would say though that the distorted lead intro to me doesn't sound that 'musical' in terms of the distortion/overdrive voicing and it also seems a bit flat.

Anyway as i said it's certainly not a bad mix and better than quite a few I've heard recently. So all in all a good job for a first attempt.


Thank you for the great input Tony! Now Tim can take his mixing at the next level!


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Timmy b
post Sep 23 2014, 08:31 PM
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Hi guys

So after working through all the advice and tips you all gave me, I've finally finished re-editing the mix. There were lots of new insights and things learned from all this. So thanks very much for all the help!
The mix isnt perfect (and probably never will!) but it has surpassed my initial expectations so im pretty happy. The guitars came up great I think, The drums didnt turn out the way I would have liked. Something I'll put more focus into in my next project.
So I think I have learned and done all I can with this mix. Time to move on

So again, thanks for the support and as always comments and feedback are always welcome


NEW FINAL MIX
<iframe width="100%" height="450" scrolling="no" frameborder="no" src="https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/tracks/168968459&amp;auto_play=false&amp;hide_related=false&amp;show_comments=true&amp;show_user=true&amp;show_reposts=false&amp;visual=true"></iframe>


And to compare it too


INITIAL 1ST MIX
<iframe width="100%" height="450" scrolling="no" frameborder="no" src="https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/tracks/169051557&amp;auto_play=false&amp;hide_related=false&amp;show_comments=true&amp;show_user=true&amp;show_reposts=false&amp;visual=true"></iframe>

This post has been edited by Timmy b: Sep 23 2014, 08:33 PM
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Todd Simpson
post Sep 23 2014, 10:12 PM
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Congrats on all your hard work!! The links don't work for me? Anyone else?


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Cosmin Lupu
post Sep 24 2014, 06:22 PM
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They work fine for me smile.gif I already told Tim my opinion in our thread and I think that aside from the fact that the bass is not very present on the laptop speakers, everything else sounds great - especially the guitars. See, with hard work will provide a great mix at home, without too much spending smile.gif


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Sep 24 2014, 07:49 PM
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Hi Timmy! Great to hear again from you working on this track. Your new take is much clearer compared with the previous one. The drum samples are not helping, both the snare and kick are a bit weak and sound like samples, not like a real drum. It would be good if you experiment with other drum vsti that will make the job easier. Nowadays I'm using SSD 3.5 with Kontakt and it is really good.

About the overall EQ. I hear it ok but I also feel some lack of bass in my monitors, mostly in the low end of the mix. Adding some frequencies to the bass around 100 HZ could really help.

Keep on the good job! wink.gif


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Cosmin Lupu
post Sep 25 2014, 05:44 PM
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Hah, I am using Kontakt as well and I totally forgot to recommend it to ya mate. Give it a try and see how it works for ya. I think it's way easier to deal with than Superior Drummer, but you should give it a go and see how it feels smile.gif

Gabi has a lot of knowledge in mixing and he can give you much more tips than myself and you should definitely try his suggestions smile.gif


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