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bleez
post Jul 7 2014, 10:53 PM
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Tone issues or maybe just my 'touch' huh.gif

* disclaimer... Im not so great at getting tones, I just blindly alter pre-sets until they kinda sound okay to me.

Its either my fingers ( which is fair enough ) or its my tone / software. For the record Im using a ux1 with pod farm 1 ( old stuff, I know )
Im about ready to bin it and get something newer maybe overloud or something but I wanted to get opinions first, just incase this is something Im doing, which Id probably end up doing again with new software!

I dont think Im getting any kind of sustain. Above the 12th and especially on the G string. Ive used 2 guitars here and although the LP gives me a bit more..... I think its still not right although it gets a little better lower down the neck.

Why would the notes be dying on me so badly here?






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SixStringSamurai
post Jul 7 2014, 11:16 PM
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Sounds like your guitar might need a setup or a fret dress or something.

This post has been edited by SixStringSamurai: Jul 7 2014, 11:16 PM


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Mertay
post Jul 8 2014, 12:55 AM
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You're sure there is no gate in the chain right?


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SixStringSamurai
post Jul 8 2014, 02:32 AM
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I think the old POD Farm stuff (might be wrong, it's been a few years) has a built in gate, but I would have thought it would cut off the lower notes quickly as well, whereas the problem that's occurring seems to be localised to a part of the fretboard.

But yeah, good idea - find the gate and turn it off if you can, and see how much difference that makes.


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Todd Simpson
post Jul 8 2014, 02:49 AM
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Sounds like a NOISE GATE is killing your sustain. There is a default gate built in to the interface even if you don't put a gate pedal in the chain, see screen grab attached. It's default setting is perhaps a bit strong perhaps. Maybe turn it OFF to see how much it's cutting off?

Attached Image





QUOTE (bleez @ Jul 7 2014, 05:53 PM) *
Tone issues or maybe just my 'touch' huh.gif

* disclaimer... Im not so great at getting tones, I just blindly alter pre-sets until they kinda sound okay to me.

Its either my fingers ( which is fair enough ) or its my tone / software. For the record Im using a ux1 with pod farm 1 ( old stuff, I know )
Im about ready to bin it and get something newer maybe overloud or something but I wanted to get opinions first, just incase this is something Im doing, which Id probably end up doing again with new software!

I dont think Im getting any kind of sustain. Above the 12th and especially on the G string. Ive used 2 guitars here and although the LP gives me a bit more..... I think its still not right although it gets a little better lower down the neck.

Why would the notes be dying on me so badly here?



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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jul 8 2014, 05:11 AM
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Hi mate! I agree with Todd's comment. This usually happens when you have a gate activated and the threshold is very low. This means that once your sound achieves the threshold level, your guitar is muted. The effect sounds like a fast fade out because gates usually have a "release" setting.

Please check that, and it there isn't a gate, another thing that I would try is another guitar cable. This could be another reason why you do't have good sustain, but I think that the gate should be the problem.

Let us know if you can solve it!


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bleez
post Jul 8 2014, 08:20 AM
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I had a quick try this morning, I do have a gate in the chain so I switched it off. There was a little improvement. I'll record it tonight after work. I wouldnt say it was a huge difference, a little bit for sure, but I'll let you guys hear it tonight.
I couldnt find a built in gate, I'll need to have another look tonight hopefully there is one there I can kill.

I ordered some new leads a few days ago, so they should be with me any day, so I'll be able to try that very soon.

this is the current effects Ive got just now :
[attachment=37870:1.jpg]

I tried switching off each pedal in turn but there wasnt much improvement in the sustain above the 12th fret.


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klasaine
post Jul 8 2014, 02:23 PM
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That does not sound like a guitar or cable issue to me at all. If it was a guitar set-up issue you'd (usually) hear a buzz before the note died. *I'd have to physically play your axe to be 100% sure though.

There's something weird going on in the chain somewhere.
The reverb 'may' have a gate or a frequency cut off built into it too.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Jul 8 2014, 02:24 PM


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bleez
post Jul 8 2014, 03:52 PM
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QUOTE (klasaine @ Jul 8 2014, 02:23 PM) *
That does not sound like a guitar or cable issue to me at all. If it was a guitar set-up issue you'd (usually) hear a buzz before the note died. *I'd have to physically play your axe to be 100% sure though.

There's something weird going on in the chain somewhere.
The reverb 'may' have a gate or a frequency cut off built into it too.


Thats good because I thought maybe with the ibby being new there may be an issue which is why I fired up my Paul because I recently had that refretted and professionally setup, the guy who done it is really good.


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jul 8 2014, 05:47 PM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Jul 8 2014, 11:52 AM) *
Thats good because I thought maybe with the ibby being new there may be an issue which is why I fired up my Paul because I recently had that refretted and professionally setup, the guy who done it is really good.



It shouldn't be an issue with your guitar if this also happens with another guitar. Have you tried using a totally different patch? maybe some presets or downloaded patches?


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Spock
post Jul 8 2014, 06:05 PM
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100% that is Noise Gate in there somewhere - you can hear it killing out the note at a steep decline. I see it in your chain but like someone else said it could be one of the other effects.

Have you ever gone to any of the Line 6 community forums and download user patches? There are some really good ones, do a search by the artist name you are trying to emulate and many times there are multiple options.

This post has been edited by Spock: Jul 8 2014, 06:06 PM
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Ben Higgins
post Jul 8 2014, 07:20 PM
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Yeah I also think it sounds like the software.. I always had the same issue with guitar plugins. No sustain. But altering the noise gate, trying to add a compressor / distortion pedal into the chain before the amp head will make a difference.

Most of those amp head simulators sound weak on their own so you need to add some stomp box simulator to the chain before the amp head to give it some BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLS

Took me ages before I figured that one out. For ages I couldn't understand why people were able to make those free VST amps sound great. When I used them they sounded like cack.

Then I realised you put the pedal before the amp. Duh. Oh well, it's good I'm not in nuclear physics innit ?


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klasaine
post Jul 8 2014, 07:35 PM
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QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Jul 8 2014, 11:20 AM) *
Oh well, it's good I'm not in nuclear physics innit ?


They had stopped using tube amps and distortion pedals in the physics community by 1962 wink.gif

*Good call ... OD pedal model before (or in to) amp model.

This post has been edited by klasaine: Jul 8 2014, 07:36 PM


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Mertay
post Jul 8 2014, 07:43 PM
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Side note for possible guitar related sustain problems incase needed;

-frets dirty
-pickups too close to strings (on older S series, mid. pickup caused a huge problem some 10 years ago and they changed the pickup)
-strings old (or the ones with new guitar, they use the cheapest strings out of factory), also thicker strings tend to have less sustain like 0.11 etc.
-bad setup like neck angle and strings too close to frets cause of trem. height (even if it doesn't buzz)
-cheap floyd type bridge

As for software gate, I really like the one built in guitar rig. For hardware, haven't tried but everybody I know advises ISP Decimator.


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Spock
post Jul 8 2014, 07:44 PM
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Excellent advice Ben and I had forgotten about that.

Try a tube screamer in front of the amp, i used that in my chain.
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Todd Simpson
post Jul 8 2014, 11:49 PM
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What about the gate NOT in the chain that I mentioned in my post? The one built in to the app? IS that one off?


QUOTE (bleez @ Jul 8 2014, 03:20 AM) *
I had a quick try this morning, I do have a gate in the chain so I switched it off. There was a little improvement. I'll record it tonight after work. I wouldnt say it was a huge difference, a :
I tried switching off each pedal in turn but there wasnt much improvement in the sustain above the 12th fret.


BINGO!!! Just like in the real world, putting an overdrive before the amp (primary gain stage) is a great idea! smile.gif

I always put an overdrive (and two expanders and a compressor, and sometimes a stomp eq!) before my gain/amp stage. It provides more boost, drives the amp better, makes it easier to play, and increases sustain smile.gif

HERE IS AN OVERLOUD TH2 PATCH TO DEMONSTRATE! smile.gif

Attached File  TH2_247_ActivePickupPresets.xml.zip ( 1.99K ) Number of downloads: 26

Attached Image





QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Jul 8 2014, 02:20 PM) *
Yeah I also think it sounds like the software.. I always had the same issue with guitar plugins. No sustain. But altering the noise gate, trying to add a compressor / distortion pedal into the chain before the amp head will make a difference.

Most of those amp head simulators sound weak on their own so you need to add some stomp box simulator to the chain before the amp head to give it some BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLS

Took me ages before I figured that one out. For ages I couldn't understand why people were able to make those free VST amps sound great. When I used them they sounded like cack.

Then I realised you put the pedal before the amp. Duh. Oh well, it's good I'm not in nuclear physics innit ?


This post has been edited by Todd Simpson: Jul 9 2014, 03:16 AM


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bleez
post Jul 9 2014, 08:25 AM
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LOL! this is brand new information to me smile.gif I would not make a very good nuclear type dude either.
QUOTE (Ben Higgins @ Jul 8 2014, 07:20 PM) *
Then I realised you put the pedal before the amp. Duh. Oh well, it's good I'm not in nuclear physics innit ?


Hey Todd, I totally cant find a built in gate. I looked around but I just cant see one. I looked at the free amplituibe and seen their built in gate but I cant see one in the pod farm 1 Im using.
QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jul 8 2014, 11:49 PM) *
What about the gate NOT in the chain that I mentioned in my post? The one built in to the app? IS that one off?

HERE IS AN OVERLOUD TH2 PATCH TO DEMONSTRATE! smile.gif



I removed the (in chain) gate and reverb, helped a little but I'll try putting pedals in front of the amp tonight smile.gif thanks guys.


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Ben Higgins
post Jul 9 2014, 08:27 AM
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QUOTE (bleez @ Jul 9 2014, 08:25 AM) *
I removed the (in chain) gate and reverb, helped a little but I'll try putting pedals in front of the amp tonight smile.gif thanks guys.


Good, I look forward to hearing how it went - it did the trick for me.



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bleez
post Jul 9 2014, 10:56 PM
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So I tried adding in a tube screamer before the amp. This is the full chain :
[attachment=37891:patch.jpg]

I played with the 3 different settings :

1. Noise gate - Amp - pedals - reverb ( basically my old patch for reference )

2. Gate - tube screamer - amp - pedals - reverb

3 - tube screamer - amp - pedals - reverb

I used my Paul first, ran through the 3 configurations above and then done the same with the ibby.





seems no gate and a tube screamer first in the chain is giving loads more sustain. Also my Paul seems to be much better than my ibby for sustain using this patch.

what d'ya think?


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Spock
post Jul 9 2014, 11:03 PM
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Almost there man - sounding great

I like the effect with the noise gate in it, (#2 setting) except you need to tweak the settings on the noise gate so it doesn't cut you out so quickly. You will get almost the full effect of the tube screamer but it will knock out a lot of back ground noise (palm hitting strings and stuff).

Also - try the noise gate behind the tube screamer - or even behind the amp.

But I think your #2 setting with a little backing off on the gate is going to give you what you are looking for, unless you just want balls to the wall - then take the gate out all together.
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