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Spock
post Jul 21 2014, 03:09 AM
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I switched it back to this arrangement - I'll see if I can get use to it, but it would be easier if the side screens would tilt down a little more...

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Saoirse O'Shea
post Jul 21 2014, 10:09 AM
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That's better than the previous picture regarding the height of the tweeter as Todd advised. One thing that may be a concern is that the KRKs may not be designed to be placed on their sides - it should say in the manual. If they are not you'll end up with focus and timing ssues, which will make it a bit harder to end up with mixes that sound 'integrated'. If they can be placed on their sides you may want to reposition slightly to put the tweeters on the outside and the bass/mid inside.

Anyway check what it says in the KRK manual first as you might be ok.


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Spock
post Jul 21 2014, 10:27 AM
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What if the speakers were up high, like before, but angled down to face directly at my head?

This post has been edited by Spock: Jul 21 2014, 10:33 AM
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Saoirse O'Shea
post Jul 21 2014, 12:03 PM
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Possibly provided that:

1/ you are happy with where the audio would be perceived to be coming from
2/ you did the sound treatment appropriate to the new dimensions of the room.
3/ you position your speakers so that the rear of them are near a hard surface - they're near fields and so use a hard surface to help with the bass end.
4/ don't have them firing back in to a corner or where the ceiling makes the 'join' with the wall.
5/ the distance from the speaker to your ear is within the near fileld's sweet spot.

A major issue to be aware of is that you probably will no longer have the monitors firing down the longest legth of the room but a shorter side of ceiiling to floor. Also it's likely that you may no longer be positioned with in an equalteral triangle so you will be out of the sweetspot and this will affect stereo coherence. The floor is also probably a different surface to the walls and you may have to think carefuly about reflections from it and the ceiling more.

One practical thing - You would need to be careul with mounting them on to a bracket. I don't know what your KRKs weigh but my monitors are over 40 kg so getting up to the ceiling would be a pain. If the ceiling pist couldn't support theim there would be a loud bang followed by a lot of dust and even more swearing.


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Todd Simpson
post Jul 21 2014, 05:52 PM
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Mr. Miro sums it up pretty perfectly in that list smile.gif The basic thing you are trying to get in your speaker placement is the drivers putting out sound that's reaching your ears at roughly the same time with minimal coloration from the room around it. Angled speakers suffer a bit as Tony mentioned and KRK speakers on their side tend to introduce PHASE ISSUES so I would NOT suggest as a permanent solution. Here is a pic of a studio setup from the days of yesteryear for reference.

Attached Image


notice how the monitors are placed such that they are about level with the guys head if he were sitting there mixing. The way you have them now they may be firing at your stomach instead of your head. sad.gif The Lots of folks use speaker stands just for this purpose, to get the speakers to a proper height. You could always put the monitors on stands to each side of the desk and leave the desk area for for your computer monitors and such?


Here is a graphic to illustrate the point I"m trying to make in case I"m just blithering on smile.gif
Attached Image









QUOTE (Spock @ Jul 21 2014, 05:27 AM) *
What if the speakers were up high, like before, but angled down to face directly at my head?



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Spock
post Jul 21 2014, 06:43 PM
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I think 2 of these will be the answer. I'll be able to lift the speakers up right in their current position and use 2 of these display mounts to put the displays on outside of each monitor at eye level. They can either mount to the back edge of the desk, or I could drill a 1/4" hole in the back and go through the desk.


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Jul 21 2014, 06:56 PM
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Positioning monitors is a pain but it's worth spending the time and effort in the long run.

It's such a pain that there are even issues in the photo Todd posts of the mixing studio above to do with things like comb filtering from the top of the console and high frequency reflections from the window behind the console and to the side. The majority of mixing studios have this issue though. The NS10s on the bridge will almost certainly suffer from recoil as well and could benefit from being gently tilted a bit up off the bridge. The bigger KH (?) monitors look like they're too close to the listening position and room corners.

OT - I worked on a Trident 80 for a few years ages ago, nice console.

This post has been edited by tonymiro: Jul 21 2014, 06:57 PM


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Todd Simpson
post Jul 21 2014, 07:04 PM
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In their current position, aren't the speakers a bit low? even standing, they look like they would be pointed at your chest if you were seated? Take a look at this graphic. They should hopefully line up with your head. smile.gif


Attached Image



QUOTE (Spock @ Jul 21 2014, 01:43 PM) *
I think 2 of these will be the answer. I'll be able to lift the speakers up right in their current position and use 2 of these display mounts to put the displays on outside of each monitor at eye level. They can either mount to the back edge of the desk, or I could drill a 1/4" hole in the back and go through the desk.


Attached Image



Yet another fine point from Tony. Even in a pro studio setup, there are still many issues, even when the speakers are placed roughly in the correct spot. I was just trying to give a general idea on speaker height with the pic smile.gif No matter what you do there will be some issue, no way around it. But hopefully you can get the speakers roughly in line with your head and pointing flat towards the back of the room instead of the floor because as tony mentioned, angled placement is less ideal.

Todd

QUOTE (tonymiro @ Jul 21 2014, 01:56 PM) *
Positioning monitors is a pain but it's worth spending the time and effort in the long run.

It's such a pain that there are even issues in the photo Todd posts of the mixing studio above to do with things like comb filtering from the top of the console and high frequency reflections from the window behind the console and to the side. The majority of mixing studios have this issue though. The NS10s on the bridge will almost certainly suffer from recoil as well and could benefit from being gently tilted a bit up off the bridge. The bigger KH (?) monitors look like they're too close to the listening position and room corners.

OT - I worked on a Trident 80 for a few years ages ago, nice console.



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Mertay
post Jul 21 2014, 10:31 PM
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Whoa, lots of info while I wasn't looking, very good ones indeed.

I'd like to say stick with the placement advices shared here but when doing the finer adjustments, give it a day or 2 before changing anything. You're adjusting by your inner sound reference but trust me it will be confused very soon as you try one option from another and always feel it can get better though even reached highest potential.

Better option is once roughly settled, take photo and share here by explaining the problem so members can help in greater detail.

A very common thing is placing foam under the speakers, if not avalible hi-fi guys place coins etc. under the edges of speakers (not bad but not ideal either). Something like the left picture;



This is also good if the mouse or your feet is on the table. Since the table rumbles one might think the bass is too much. But more importantly it helps the speaker deliver a tighter sound.

Finally, for home studio owners (and even pro's) one simply also has to adjust his hearing aesthetic to the system as no system is perfect or designed ground-up for personal preference. We only try to get it as close and dependable as possible.

This post has been edited by Mertay: Jul 21 2014, 10:33 PM


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Spock
post Jul 22 2014, 12:27 AM
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I definitely like the tweeters at ear level, where they are now. The desk is a little taller than most so the picture can me misleading.

I'm thinking, just for room sake and so I don't have to look up so high to the displays on top, the extendable arms for the screens would be ideal - leaving the speakers where they are, but turned upright, and the screens level to the sides of the speakers, braced in place by the extendable arms attached to the back of the desk.

Really, If I had not of changed anything, it still sounded good, but I had to adjust the dials to their extremes to cut out bass and boost treble, but the way it is now, except for bass being turned down to 1 notch, everything else is set at 0db and sounds great.

Plus it's not like I'm having Dream Theater coming in here to cut a record - this is just so I can learn as I go along, and get the best sound out of my simple compositions.
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Todd Simpson
post Jul 22 2014, 01:52 AM
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As longs as the cones, especially tweets are pointed at your head/ears, your heading the right direction smile.gif For home use especially, it should sound good first off, as you gotta sit there and listen to it! smile.gif Also, as you mention, you will learn and adjust as you go, it's a process and it takes time so there's no rush smile.gif In the meantime we are here to help whatever you may need!

Todd
QUOTE (Spock @ Jul 21 2014, 07:27 PM) *
I definitely like the tweeters at ear level, where they are now. The desk is a little taller than most so the picture can me misleading.

I'm thinking, just for room sake and so I don't have to look up so high to the displays on top, the extendable arms for the screens would be ideal - leaving the speakers where they are, but turned upright, and the screens level to the sides of the speakers, braced in place by the extendable arms attached to the back of the desk.

Really, If I had not of changed anything, it still sounded good, but I had to adjust the dials to their extremes to cut out bass and boost treble, but the way it is now, except for bass being turned down to 1 notch, everything else is set at 0db and sounds great.

Plus it's not like I'm having Dream Theater coming in here to cut a record - this is just so I can learn as I go along, and get the best sound out of my simple compositions.



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wrk
post Jul 22 2014, 09:01 AM
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Hi Spock .. just out of curiosity, what do you use to connect the two external screens to your iMac?



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Spock
post Jul 22 2014, 09:25 AM
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QUOTE (wrk @ Jul 22 2014, 04:01 AM) *
Hi Spock .. just out of curiosity, what do you use to connect the two external screens to your iMac?



They are running Dvi from the back of the Displays to the Thunderbolt ports in the iMac - mini-DVi are is the exact same connector as Thunderbolt.

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wrk
post Jul 22 2014, 09:28 AM
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QUOTE (Spock @ Jul 22 2014, 10:25 AM) *
They are running Dvi from the back of the Displays to the Thunderbolt ports in the iMac - mini-DVi are is the exact same connector as Thunderbolt.


Thanks .. does your iMac has two Thunderbold ports? .. i guess i have an older iMac, because i only have on port.

This post has been edited by wrk: Jul 22 2014, 09:31 AM


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Spock
post Jul 22 2014, 12:11 PM
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Yes this one has 2 thunderbolt ports. It was one of the first i7s. About 2.5 years old now I guess - it's not one of the new thin iMacs, but it was the last iMac that had a built in superdrive.
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wrk
post Jul 22 2014, 06:35 PM
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QUOTE (Spock @ Jul 22 2014, 01:11 PM) *
Yes this one has 2 thunderbolt ports. It was one of the first i7s. About 2.5 years old now I guess - it's not one of the new thin iMacs, but it was the last iMac that had a built in superdrive.

Man, you are lucky smile.gif
Mine is about the same age, maybe even a bit older, with 2.8 GHz i7 ... it actually does not have a thunderbolt port as i was thinking, but a mini display port, which somehow seems to be the same or similar connection as thunderbolt(?), but only one of them. Thanks anyway smile.gif







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Todd Simpson
post Jul 24 2014, 04:28 AM
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How are you liking your JACKSON guitar BTW?


QUOTE (Spock @ Jul 22 2014, 07:11 AM) *
Yes this one has 2 thunderbolt ports. It was one of the first i7s. About 2.5 years old now I guess - it's not one of the new thin iMacs, but it was the last iMac that had a built in superdrive.



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Spock
post Jul 25 2014, 10:04 AM
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QUOTE (Todd Simpson @ Jul 23 2014, 11:28 PM) *
How are you liking your JACKSON guitar BTW?



It's a great guitar! I have found myself gravitating to the Ibanez more though. The Jackson's action is a little tighter than the Ibanez and the neck isn't quite as thin. I think my favorite guitars out of the bunch would be the new Ibanez and the silver PRS Standard 24.

Everything with a locking nut I keep to standard tuning (with 9 gauge strings), and everything without I keep at drop D (with 10 gauge strings) - except the spalted maple PRS SE, that is standard tuning as well.


I still need to get the Ibanez and the PRS SE set-up though, haven't done that yet.

I set a goal for my son, and told him that if he accomplished it, I would give him the Jackson (as much as it would pain me to do so), but he desperately needs a new guitar as his Fender Squire is 7 years old and beat to hell (which means the Jackson would get beat to hell too), but he does play it and has come a long way on his own learning guitar. He's a drummer, and now plays keyboards in a band - but he can quickly learn to play anything he puts his hands on - he's majoring in Music Theory in college.
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Todd Simpson
post Jul 25 2014, 09:57 PM
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That's awesome that your son is Majoring in Music Theory!! The Jackson is a killer motivation and wonderful gift smile.gif I sure wish my Dad would have given me a spiff Jackson!!!! smile.gif

I find myself drifting back to my Ibbys as well smile.gif I run through a LOT of guitars as you may have noticed. I'm always wanting to try guitars I haven't owned before to see how they compare to my 2 Ibby's in my permanent collection. Every guitar I've owned has had something to endear it to me. But it feels more like having an affair than finding a new love smile.gif But hey, a bit of a fling now and then with a new guitar is always fun smile.gif

Todd

QUOTE (Spock @ Jul 25 2014, 05:04 AM) *
It's a great guitar! I have found myself gravitating to the Ibanez more though. The Jackson's action is a little tighter than the Ibanez and the neck isn't quite as thin. I think my favorite guitars out of the bunch would be the new Ibanez and the silver PRS Standard 24.

Everything with a locking nut I keep to standard tuning (with 9 gauge strings), and everything without I keep at drop D (with 10 gauge strings) - except the spalted maple PRS SE, that is standard tuning as well.


I still need to get the Ibanez and the PRS SE set-up though, haven't done that yet.

I set a goal for my son, and told him that if he accomplished it, I would give him the Jackson (as much as it would pain me to do so), but he desperately needs a new guitar as his Fender Squire is 7 years old and beat to hell (which means the Jackson would get beat to hell too), but he does play it and has come a long way on his own learning guitar. He's a drummer, and now plays keyboards in a band - but he can quickly learn to play anything he puts his hands on - he's majoring in Music Theory in college.


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Cosmin Lupu
post Jul 26 2014, 01:06 PM
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Congrats man! biggrin.gif But if I were you, I would offer the Spalted maple PRS tongue.gif It's got the looks and maybe he would like it more than the Jackson? biggrin.gif Have you asked him on what brand he would like if he could choose a guitar?


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